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Engineer Mixing beats... Prices
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice ➡️
well most people DO make beats!! it takes more the a few Vsts and Fruitloop to be able to say' I COMPOSE MUSIC or I'M A PRODUCER. a Producer is SO MUCH MORE then a beatmaker...most people especially in the Hip Hop world are NOT producers, they just....make beats
Exactly!!!!
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Addict
 
Freematik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Beats... Music... whatever, get over yourselves... it's just semantics... In the studio when I'm with artists, they call instrumentals beats, it's the friggin' word the artists use, and so that's why I call my s**t beats...

Just brush up on your ebonics and get back to work... this is a friggin' rap thread and dudes have a problem with the word beats, what a joke...

-Freematik
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman ➡️
$1000 a track and one point for the whole enchilada...for a decent beatmaker just starting out.
I can't understand some of you guys (sorry to say). A young man puts up a post and asks very politely a simple question, so why not just give a simple answer, why bust the guys chops! After all some of you guys are claiming to be professional. Reading some of your replies you are not looking too professional to me and phillysoulman you are always a main instigator. We are supposed to help others when and if we can!dfegad Who really cares if someone uses the word beats!
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freematik ➡️
.

Just brush up on your ebonics and get back to work...

-Freematik
You need to brush up on the meaning of "ebonics."
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years


Hey Bonkerz, what happend is the engineers that suggested rates here are really good. There's decent engineers that work for less especially if you ask for "rough mixes".
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freematik ➡️
Beats... Music... whatever, get over yourselves... it's just semantics... In the studio when I'm with artists, they call instrumentals beats, it's the friggin' word the artists use, and so that's why I call my s**t beats...

Just brush up on your ebonics and get back to work... this is a friggin' rap thread and dudes have a problem with the word beats, what a joke...

-Freematik
Why so friggin defensive bro??
Geez...MOST peeps in hip hop are so defensive...lighten up man!!!
its all music and ..love
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey boy ➡️
I can't understand some of you guys (sorry to say). A young man puts up a post and asks very politely a simple question, so why not just give a simple answer, why bust the guys chops! After all some of you guys are claiming to be professional. Reading some of your replies you are not looking too professional to me and phillysoulman you are always a main instigator. We are supposed to help others when and if we can!dfegad Who really cares if someone uses the word beats!
So in tha case,dont read my posts.
Its THAT simple
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman ➡️
So in tha case,dont read my posts.
Its THAT simple
yep professional????????????????dfegad
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice ➡️
well most people DO make beats!! it takes more the a few Vsts and Fruitloop to be able to say' I COMPOSE MUSIC or I'M A PRODUCER. a Producer is SO MUCH MORE then a beatmaker...most people especially in the Hip Hop world are NOT producers, they just....make beats
You stole the words right b4 I could type them. Most guys do just "MAKE BEATS", I don't like when someone considers themselves a producer and can't even get into a conversation with me about the recording and budgeting process.

Most people don't even know that the producer is responsible not only for the songs completion, but the credits, the splitsheets, the budget, etc... man
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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tonymission's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicB ➡️
You stole the words right b4 I could type them. Most guys do just "MAKE BEATS", I don't like when someone considers themselves a producer and can't even get into a conversation with me about the recording and budgeting process.

Most people don't even know that the producer is responsible not only for the songs completion, but the credits, the splitsheets, the budget, etc... man
I wonder how many times this gets "discussed" a week on this board...

I'm not sure who anyone is educating on that around here for as much as we hear it
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkerz ➡️
Damn... but a beat cd ranges from 8-16 tracks. Thats a little steep don't you think? That could potentially end up being around $3200 for a bunch of beats that might not even get placed.
Jesus, homes.

It's called taking a risk. I've never heard a band or artist say...."Hmmm....If I spend X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS on a record at STUDIO X and don't get signed then I could be wasting a lot of money".

You are competing against so many people in this industry who are trying to get tracks placed. Sometimes a good song isn't enough. Sometimes it needs to be mixed really well to get anyone's attention. Sometimes you got to spend a little money to have things done that you can't do yourself if you have enough respect for your own music to make it sound the best it can.

And sometimes that means hiring someone who will take your beats to the next level with a great mix. If you want to get some of your beats placed how do you expect to rise above the crowd with that attitude???
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
To answer the post tho, I would say 100-200 per track also. But here's a serious question though. What's missing from your tracks that makes you think you need professional mixing? Maybe I can offer a suggestion.

For years I used to think, the sound I wanted to achieve could only be done in 48 track studios with Pro Tools and a ton of expensive gear(yes, back in the day), until I sat down with a professional engineer and a sound designer for a couple well known producers.

They basically told me that it ALL starts with the sounds that you choose from the start. The reason why those producers "rough" mixes probably sound so good to you is not because they are mixing geniuses it's probably because they take time to tweak and tune and beef up the sounds they use.

Now if you're talking about frequency balance issues and stuff like that then ok yeah maybe you might want to get someone to mix it. But if you're talking about thicker sounds, harder kicks, louder snares, etc. Do a lil research on compressors, eqs, etc. Get some software, and start tweeking.

I had an opportunity to sit with rodney jerkins making a track on an mpc 3k, a triton, and a 5080 and it sounded "mixed" to me back then but it was just his samples were so beefed up and his layering of sounds that gave him a far more superior sound that I was used to.

I could be wrong and maybe just wasted a lot of time typing, but tell us what you're missing or think your missing, then we can go from there.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymission ➡️
I wonder how many times this gets "discussed" a week on this board...

I'm not sure who anyone is educating on that around here for as much as we hear it
start the thread, i'll be happy to give up what I know...
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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Chaellus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
who wants some Beets... heh
Attached Thumbnails
Engineer Mixing beats... Prices-beets_produce-1.jpg  
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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Kadden Heart's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Man,
people really jump on cats around here.

honest, right now my schedule is open because i'm moving, and i'm broke because i'm moving. So if someone says "I'll give you $250 to mix these 8 instrumentals" I'd probably do it. and i'd put my best into it.

however, i feel super ashamed doing work for that cheap.
i love music to death, but wages like that just don't keep your belly full.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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Traxx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadden Heart ➡️
Man,
people really jump on cats around here.

honest, right now my schedule is open because i'm moving, and i'm broke because i'm moving. So if someone says "I'll give you $250 to mix these 8 instrumentals" I'd probably do it. and i'd put my best into it.

however, i feel super ashamed doing work for that cheap.
i love music to death, but wages like that just don't keep your belly full.
I feel where you're coming from. You're not letting pride get in the way of putting food on your plate and there is no shame in that. As for everyone else getting touchy about using the word "beats" not being professional, then sorry to upset you but its the truth. Its bothers me that most of "us" that do hip hop are so thick headed that we can not take constructive criticsm or advice to help us out. So keep your mind in the frame of "making beats" and you'll forever do that. When you start looking at it as composing music and producing music you'll probably think outside the box and get better at your craft. Instead of trying to figure out the root of the advice given, you'll rather argue that "all my buddies call it beats." Ebonics my ass, why are we the only culture that cannot look at ourselves as professionals and carry ourselves that way. So whoever gets upset, then keep categorizing yourself as a "beat maker" and keep yourself confined as a beat maker. The elite producers in this game have totally evolved from beat makers to producers and composers.. ex.. Dr. Dre, Rza, Premo, Timbo, hi tek, just blaze guys we all look up to and strive to be.... When you humble yourself and bring in other professional musicians to help take your music to the next level then you evolve into a producer and composer... So yes I think beat making is putting yourself in a lower class when it comes to production and composing..
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx ➡️
I feel where you're coming from. You're not letting pride get in the way of putting food on your plate and there is no shame in that. As for everyone else getting touchy about using the word "beats" not being professional, then sorry to upset you but its the truth. Its bothers me that most of "us" that do hip hop are so thick headed that we can not take constructive criticsm or advice to help us out. So keep your mind in the frame of "making beats" and you'll forever do that. When you start looking at it as composing music and producing music you'll probably think outside the box and get better at your craft. Instead of trying to figure out the root of the advice given, you'll rather argue that "all my buddies call it beats." Ebonics my ass, why are we the only culture that cannot look at ourselves as professionals and carry ourselves that way. So whoever gets upset, then keep categorizing yourself as a "beat maker" and keep yourself confined as a beat maker. The elite producers in this game have totally evolved from beat makers to producers and composers.. ex.. Dr. Dre, Rza, Premo, Timbo, hi tek, just blaze guys we all look up to and strive to be.... When you humble yourself and bring in other professional musicians to help take your music to the next level then you evolve into a producer and composer... So yes I think beat making is putting yourself in a lower class when it comes to production and composing..
good post. and you right. i correct people all the time when it comes to business and hiphop. ive gotten into alot of small debates as to how a producer and beatmaker are very different. imagine if i told them they shouldn't call instrumentals/compositions/music, beats? the arguments would never stop.

its like a bad hand shake. ya know with a lil pound it action. i hate it but people wont stop holding out there fists...lol it gets me into the damn habbit.
Old 5th February 2009
  #48
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkerz ➡️
I am working on a beat CD to shop and I would like the tracks to have atleast a decent mix. I've heard a few beats from other producers and the mixes were definitely on point. What do you guys think is a reasonable price to approach an engineer with.

I'm sure someone around here will pm you with a playa price if it hasn't happened already. 8-16 tracks can get done for $400 to $800 on the low. Maybe not top notch, but you'll get a lil extra umph. To tell you the truth beats aren't supposed to be mixed and mastered anyway. You want good levels and knocking drums. After the artists takes it and tracks the vocals that's when you want the real mixing done. As for now you just want good levels and knocking drums which you could potentially learn quickly on your own. If you haven't got any word pm me.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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MYAMS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman ➡️
$1000 a track and one point for the whole enchilada...for a decent beatmaker just starting out.
I agree, 1000 is a starting point for a new guy with potential. Too bad its hard to get independents to dish out that much these days
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #50
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orangeoctane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➡️
To tell you the truth beats aren't supposed to be mixed and mastered anyway. You want good levels and knocking drums. After the artists takes it and tracks the vocals that's when you want the real mixing done.
I'm kinda thinkin' the opposite on this one. If you are a beat maker, you want your tracks to be so phat, polished and on point that it gets artists EXCITED the second they hear it and inspires them on the spot to start flowin and thinking that they NEED that track. The stronger the presentation, the easier it is for the prospective artist to visulaize it as a hit in their own head. If you can get that passion stirred in them, it will be way eaiser to sell your tracks.

Like a lot of stuff in life, that FIRST IMPRESSION can have a lot of influence.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➡️
I To tell you the truth beats aren't supposed to be mixed and mastered anyway. You want good levels and knocking drums. After the artists takes it and tracks the vocals that's when you want the real mixing done.
As a pro mixing engineer (among a lot of other things), I always mix my own tracks like it's the final mix for a cd. Same thing with songs I wrote that I am shopping. Even if the singer that demoed the track is just for reference, I make sure the song sounds like a final mix and make her sound like a star. My opinion is that you always want to put your best foot forward. You usually have ONE CHANCE to make a good impression and I always try to do the best I can. For mastering I do agree that it's not necessary at that point.....I do that myself in these cases. But mixing?...HELL YES.

Does that mean that you wont sell your tracks without a good mix? Not at all. But I bet it helps with a great mix. In a lot of peoples eyes out here, they will see you as more professional. At least that's what A&R's, labels, artists, and managers tell me.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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rhythmtech's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➡️
As a pro mixing engineer... I always mix my own tracks like it's the final mix for a cd.
good to see a few people in here striving to keep quality levels up where they should be.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx ➡️
I feel where you're coming from. You're not letting pride get in the way of putting food on your plate and there is no shame in that. As for everyone else getting touchy about using the word "beats" not being professional, then sorry to upset you but its the truth. Its bothers me that most of "us" that do hip hop are so thick headed that we can not take constructive criticsm or advice to help us out. So keep your mind in the frame of "making beats" and you'll forever do that. When you start looking at it as composing music and producing music you'll probably think outside the box and get better at your craft. Instead of trying to figure out the root of the advice given, you'll rather argue that "all my buddies call it beats." Ebonics my ass, why are we the only culture that cannot look at ourselves as professionals and carry ourselves that way. So whoever gets upset, then keep categorizing yourself as a "beat maker" and keep yourself confined as a beat maker. The elite producers in this game have totally evolved from beat makers to producers and composers.. ex.. Dr. Dre, Rza, Premo, Timbo, hi tek, just blaze guys we all look up to and strive to be.... When you humble yourself and bring in other professional musicians to help take your music to the next level then you evolve into a producer and composer... So yes I think beat making is putting yourself in a lower class when it comes to production and composing..
Hallelujah!!
A really intelligent comment.
Kudos.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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MYAMS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkerz ➡️
Damn... but a beat cd ranges from 8-16 tracks. Thats a little steep don't you think? That could potentially end up being around $3200 for a bunch of beats that might not even get placed. If thats the case how do up and coming producers go about getting their stuff mixed if they don't do it themselves. I've heard beat CD's from Surf Club, Needlz & Calvo Da Gr8 and all there beats have a good rough mix.
bro I have heard stuff from those guys as well and it is usually just not mixed period.

I submit joints completely unmixed with just a limiter on the buss to get that volume- just make hot **** and people will catch on. The details come in later.

Once you get the placement- then be super critical of the sound.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➡️
As a pro mixing engineer (among a lot of other things), I always mix my own tracks like it's the final mix for a cd. Same thing with songs I wrote that I am shopping. Even if the singer that demoed the track is just for reference, I make sure the song sounds like a final mix and make her sound like a star. My opinion is that you always want to put your best foot forward. You usually have ONE CHANCE to make a good impression and I always try to do the best I can. For mastering I do agree that it's not necessary at that point.....I do that myself in these cases. But mixing?...HELL YES.

Does that mean that you wont sell your tracks without a good mix? Not at all. But I bet it helps with a great mix. In a lot of peoples eyes out here, they will see you as more professional. At least that's what A&R's, labels, artists, and managers tell me.

My arguement is there's a difference between a song and just the beat. Even if you mix it to the T, once the vocals are laid all of that comes undone anyway. I understand where you're coming from though. I personally wouldn't waste all my money in the mixing of a beat. I'd wait til the song is wrote and then get the mix right. That's where it counts. In a listening session the drums have to knock and basic levels. If the beat strikes a nerve the pens and pads come out. It how I've always seen it done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeoctane ➡️
I'm kinda thinkin' the opposite on this one. If you are a beat maker, you want your tracks to be so phat, polished and on point that it gets artists EXCITED the second they hear it and inspires them on the spot to start flowin and thinking that they NEED that track. The stronger the presentation, the easier it is for the prospective artist to visulaize it as a hit in their own head. If you can get that passion stirred in them, it will be way eaiser to sell your tracks.

Like a lot of stuff in life, that FIRST IMPRESSION can have a lot of influence.
A mix doesn't inspire me to start writing. It's usually the concepts that are floating in my head. Try to go with me here (it may be confusing) horn stabs make me think of slab riding clubbish music, organs make me think of real street ****, orchestral drums make me think of on top of the world triumphant type of stuff, piano tinkling makes me think of so gangsta I could murk you through the track type ****. This has nothing to do with the mix when I am listening and if the drums knock and the levels are right when I'm writing then my only thoughts are usually drum roll here, drop there, etc and that's all arrangement. I get what you're saying tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MYAMS ➡️
bro I have heard stuff from those guys as well and it is usually just not mixed period.

I submit joints completely unmixed with just a limiter on the buss to get that volume- just make hot **** and people will catch on. The details come in later.

Once you get the placement- then be super critical of the sound.
This is very true with rap. Make it hot and get the placement.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➡️
A mix doesn't inspire me to start writing. It's usually the concepts that are floating in my head. Try to go with me here (it may be confusing) horn stabs make me think of slab riding clubbish music, organs make me think of real street ****, orchestral drums make me think of on top of the world triumphant type of stuff, piano tinkling makes me think of so gangsta I could murk you through the track type ****. This has nothing to do with the mix when I am listening and if the drums knock and the levels are right when I'm writing then my only thoughts are usually drum roll here, drop there, etc and that's all arrangement.
I totally understand where you are coming from. But what if you get a track where the horn stabs sound like ****, the organs sound like ass, the organic drums sound thin and amateur and the piano sounds like a casio (not intentionally of course)? You like the "song" (the potential)....but the sounds the beat maker used aren't banging at all. Are you gonna be as inspired as if the same track had banging sounds?

My point is, certain people who write the checks and have a big influence on the business side will feel the same way about an ok mix as you do about an ok track (sonically speaking). My philosophy is that I don't want to leave anything in doubt. I'd rather go the extra mile even if some people don't need it...because you don't want to disappoint the ones that do. Does that make sense?
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #57
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tonymission's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Moral of the story:

If you make beats, you better know how to make them sound good.

The sheer amount of beats you make versus the ones that get placed/purchased is usually a pretty big difference. Many that you would never even guess get selected... if you gotta pay for your entire collection to get mixed, you probably have too much money to be hungry enough to actually make it anyway. And if you can afford them all, you probably don't have enough finished beats. Started that last part as a joke, but it's probably pretty close to the truth.

No one signs poorly-mixed beats... although I did hear the OJ da Juiceman album so there are always exceptions.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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MYAMS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➡️
I totally understand where you are coming from. But what if you get a track where the horn stabs sound like ****, the organs sound like ass, the organic drums sound thin and amateur and the piano sounds like a casio (not intentionally of course)? You like the "song" (the potential)....but the sounds the beat maker used aren't banging at all. Are you gonna be as inspired as if the same track had banging sounds?

My point is, certain people who write the checks and have a big influence on the business side will feel the same way about an ok mix as you do about an ok track (sonically speaking). My philosophy is that I don't want to leave anything in doubt. I'd rather go the extra mile even if some people don't need it...because you don't want to disappoint the ones that do. Does that make sense?
poor sounds and "mixing are two different categories. I think your sounds must be flawless- but doing a mix is not necessary for shopping around in my opinion
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYAMS ➡️
poor sounds and "mixing are two different categories. I think your sounds must be flawless- but doing a mix is not necessary for shopping around in my opinion
It's late so I know I probably didn't explain myself very well. Sorry!

I know they are different. But my point was that they can be looked at in similar ways by different people. An artist wants to here a great track...not a track with good potential with piss poor sounds. A lot of A&R's, label execs, and managers want to hear the FINAL track.....not a great track with a piss poor mix. So what I'm saying is that you should not only have a great song or beat but also a great mix. I know people disagree with me about the mix part but that's my philosophy.


EDIT: But then again, I'm not only shopping beats and shopping complete songs, I'm also showing my overall production/mixing skills. In fact, I've gotten gigs as a mixer just because my songs were sonically pleasing to the ear of the people listening. Thinking about it more, I can see how a beat maker or producer who just wants to sell their "beats" or "songs" might not be as concerned about a great mix as me. But the way I see it, even if they don't like the track, they might like the sonics so I go 100% on everything.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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rhythmtech's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➡️
It's late so I know I probably didn't explain myself very well. Sorry!

I know they are different. But my point was that they can be looked at in similar ways by different people. An artist wants to here a great track...not a track with good potential with piss poor sounds. A lot of A&R's, label execs, and managers want to hear the FINAL track.....not a great track with a piss poor mix. So what I'm saying is that you should not only have a great song or beat but also a great mix. I know people disagree with me about the mix part but that's my philosophy.
exactly. if you want to be a pro then you've gotta be pro. dont let ANYTHING leave your studio unless its the best that you (or a hired hand) can make it. remember it has your name, and therefore your rep attached to it.
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