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Beats made on Yamaha Motif - how to track out?
Old 2nd February 2009
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Beats made on Yamaha Motif - how to track out?

Newb question here, but I'm not sure so I figured I would ask.

I'm buying a few beats from a guy. I specifically wanted beats tracked out so I could bring them in the studio and have the engineer mix. I don't know the production side that well... but I was under the impression this meant the DAW session files ( Pro Tools ) or, a collection of WAV files, one for each instrument... in real time with the song so they all align perfectly when stacked.

So it turns out these beats I want to buy were live recorded on a Motif. The producer tells me he has to "chop them up and set them on point, and include the BPM on them so I can know what the deal is".

I'm not really sure what that means. I guess I'm just nervous .... will this still work for what I want to do? ( bring the tracks to the engineer and have him be able to mix in protools )

any insight is appreciated!
Old 2nd February 2009
  #2
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bgrotto's Avatar
All the producer needs to do is sync the Motif to his DAW via MIDI Beat Clock and track it out. It's really easy, and is covered in a number of online tutorials, not to mention in the manual for either the DAW or the Motif.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hopefully you're not paying this guy for this track. If he's a real "producer" then he should deinitely have the means of getting it tracked out for you.....If it's a free track then.....well, that's why it's free.

But bgrotto has it right, sync it up via midi beat clock.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
naw, I'm paying the dude that's why I'm asking

But I don't understand what this "chopped up" **** with a BPM means.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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irthwirm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
probaby didn't set a bpm in his motif hence the "live" reference, which you gonna want when mixing/recording vox in pro tools. So he'll probably dump it to some type of daw and find the bpm and then make sure everything is lined up and loopable to the bpm. That's my guess. I'm sure the quality or sound or feel of the beat wont change.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stayghost ➑️
naw, I'm paying the dude that's why I'm asking

But I don't understand what this "chopped up" **** with a BPM means.
Honestly: he probably doesn't either. I'm not just being a smartass, it's entirely possible he's confused, ignorant, or just spewing bull**** at you cuz he's lazy. In any event, don't pay him till he tracks the thing out. And don't pay EXTRA for him to do it; that's utter bull****.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
hmm, well not sure how to address this now
understandably the dude wants payment before sending me the track out

damnit
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
If you're gonna be paying someone for their tracks then you should get the entire session tracked out. period

This guy who's trying to take your money should know all of this already.

If you wanna try working with some other people who do this for a living then there's people of this board who you would be very satisfied working with.....I think one of the guys last name is Zarific???? heh
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Nice plug Zarific!!! Point him to this thread where he can learn about tracking out and business. More producers need to know these things.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Maybe its just me but I understand exactly what the guy is saying. He's tracking each audio track 1 by 1 into pt then he will chop it up to make sure it all has the same start point and find the bpm of the track. Also tracking beats is annoying I personally won't just track a beat for cheap either. If u r paying $20 just to use a beat I'm not going to take the hour or so it takes to track the audio into the computer when I know someone else will buy it as is. Any additional sh*t costs extra.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➑️
Maybe its just me but I understand exactly what the guy is saying. He's tracking each audio track 1 by 1 into pt then he will chop it up to make sure it all has the same start point and find the bpm of the track. Also tracking beats is annoying I personally won't just track a beat for cheap either. If u r paying $20 just to use a beat I'm not going to take the hour or so it takes to track the audio into the computer when I know someone else will buy it as is. Any additional sh*t costs extra.
It shouldn't take more than a half hour to track a beat out, and that's if there's only two outputs on the source device. If you have a rig with multiple outs, you should be able to lay the beat out in a pass or two, which shouldn't take more than ten minutes.

If you haven't programmed drops in, you can track in just the loop (four, eight, whatever bars) and be done in minutes.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
It shouldn't take more than a half hour to track a beat out, and that's if there's only two outputs on the source device. If you have a rig with multiple outs, you should be able to lay the beat out in a pass or two, which shouldn't take more than ten minutes.

If you haven't programmed drops in, you can track in just the loop (four, eight, whatever bars) and be done in minutes.
I usually have programmed everything on my keyboards drops included. And my interface doesn't have multiple ins. And I'm not going to take the extra time to rearrange the track in the computer if its arranged on the keyboard. When I track beats it takes between 30 minutes and an hr depending on the track.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➑️
I usually have programmed everything on my keyboards drops included. And my interface doesn't have multiple ins. And I'm not going to take the extra time to rearrange the track in the computer if its arranged on the keyboard. When I track beats it takes between 30 minutes and an hr depending on the track.
Bummer.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
I thought tracking out beats/tracks was a real time consuming process. You guys talk about it likes it's just running to the store and back. Tracking is a very carefully, thought out process that includes making each track being tracked sound good as possible before hitting the DAW or tape. That includes compression, eq, etc. Tracking into itself is a tedious task when done responsibly as it should be. Now I see why the quality of recordings today are horrendous.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard ➑️
I thought tracking out beats/tracks was a real time consuming process. You guys talk about it likes it's just running to the store and back. Tracking is a very carefully, thought out process that includes making each track being tracked sound good as possible before hitting the DAW or tape. That includes compression, eq, etc. Tracking into itself is a tedious task when done responsibly as it should be. Now I see why the quality of recordings today are horrendous.
This is certainly true in scenarios where the producer is directly involved with the artist and the recording and mixing of the track...however, in most cases, it's cats from the streets buying beats from no-name producers for like $50. In that case, yes, tracking the beat out is a simple, straight-forward, and no-frills task.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
This is certainly true in scenarios where the producer is directly involved with the artist and the recording and mixing of the track...however, in most cases, it's cats from the streets buying beats from no-name producers for like $50. In that case, yes, tracking the beat out is a simple, straight-forward, and no-frills task.
Hey hey!!!!! I buy beats from no name producers for like $50 on the leasings. We all gotta start somewhere. And I want mine tracked out, otherwise I can't mix it!
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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ORyan87's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I kinda love tracking from my mpc.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➑️
Hey hey!!!!! I buy beats from no name producers for like $50 on the leasings. We all gotta start somewhere. And I want mine tracked out, otherwise I can't mix it!
Yeah, dawg! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with dudes from the streets buying $50 beats. And I'd be the first to encourage those dudes make damn sure those beats are tracked out! My point is that while the Wiizard's point is sorta true in the "best case scenarios", those scenarios are very rare, and typically limited to a certain level of the game that most of us mere mortals have limited (if any) access to. I'm on your team, homie!
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Wiizard ➑️
I thought tracking out beats/tracks was a real time consuming process. You guys talk about it likes it's just running to the store and back. Tracking is a very carefully, thought out process that includes making each track being tracked sound good as possible before hitting the DAW or tape. That includes compression, eq, etc. Tracking into itself is a tedious task when done responsibly as it should be.
That's always been the way I've done it. Minus the compression which I do with plug ins rather than externally because I don't own an external compressor at the moment.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
Yeah, dawg! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with dudes from the streets buying $50 beats. And I'd be the first to encourage those dudes make damn sure those beats are tracked out! My point is that while the Wiizard's point is sorta true in the "best case scenarios", those scenarios are very rare, and typically limited to a certain level of the game that most of us mere mortals have limited (if any) access to. I'm on your team, homie!
If u can find someone ready to track a beat for u for $50 run with it but I persaonally only offer that for exclusive deals. I try to encourage artists to not lease in the first place
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➑️
If u can find someone ready to track a beat for u for $50 run with it but I persaonally only offer that for exclusive deals. I try to encourage artists to not lease in the first place
I dig it. My main point is: don't buy a beat you can't get tracked out. Period.

I for one have never bought a beat in my life, and I never will; I'm not a rapper. I'm an engineer; that's my angle. Whether you pay $20 or $2000, there's no sense in buying a beat that hasn't been tracked out, assuming you're serious about getting the thing mixed and releasing it commercially.

Beatmakers who don't like tracking their beats out (and subsequently refusing to do so) can charge as much or as little as they want, I don't care. I just think it's really lame to sell a guy a track that can't be mixed, and I'll say so every time. If you don't think $50 is enough for a tracked out beat, raise your prices.

EDIT: this is my stance because most beatmakers suck at mixing. If you can produce good-sounding two-tracks for an emcee to rap over, and wanna sell em for whatever, more power to ya. But if your **** sounds bad, and I get a client bitchin' at me cuz I can't make it sound like "famous dude X"'s single, I get cranky. (not necessarily your fault, I understand, but goddamn it's annoyingheh)
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If this producer is halfway decent, he should easily be able to do what bgrotto said.

Slave the motif to the daw using midi clock. Set the DAW play at the same tempo as the machine. Enable midi clock on whatever output port is connected to the input port on the motif. Make sure the Motif is in slave/external clock mode. Make sure the outputs for each sound used are routed to their prospective inputs on the interface being used to record.

The joy of midi makes it so that even if you only have 2 channels, each pass will ensure everything is sync'd up.

He needs to do this so that you can copy/paste bars here and there where you need to.

Any "producer" not capable of such a task is a joke. Midi sync is production 101.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
Yeah, dawg! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with dudes from the streets buying $50 beats. And I'd be the first to encourage those dudes make damn sure those beats are tracked out! My point is that while the Wiizard's point is sorta true in the "best case scenarios", those scenarios are very rare, and typically limited to a certain level of the game that most of us mere mortals have limited (if any) access to. I'm on your team, homie!




Quote:
If this producer is halfway decent, he should easily be able to do what bgrotto said.

Slave the motif to the daw using midi clock. Set the DAW play at the same tempo as the machine. Enable midi clock on whatever output port is connected to the input port on the motif. Make sure the Motif is in slave/external clock mode. Make sure the outputs for each sound used are routed to their prospective inputs on the interface being used to record.

The joy of midi makes it so that even if you only have 2 channels, each pass will ensure everything is sync'd up.

He needs to do this so that you can copy/paste bars here and there where you need to.

Any "producer" not capable of such a task is a joke. Midi sync is production 101.
Very true!



Also, even on leases the beats should be tracked out. You track it out once, you lease the track 30 times. Why not track it out? It would just make your beat sound worse as a producer and make the quality of the product drop. The mix could easily advance you and make you more marketable.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
I dig it. My main point is: don't buy a beat you can't get tracked out. Period.

I for one have never bought a beat in my life, and I never will; I'm not a rapper. I'm an engineer; that's my angle. Whether you pay $20 or $2000, there's no sense in buying a beat that hasn't been tracked out, assuming you're serious about getting the thing mixed and releasing it commercially.

Beatmakers who don't like tracking their beats out (and subsequently refusing to do so) can charge as much or as little as they want, I don't care. I just think it's really lame to sell a guy a track that can't be mixed, and I'll say so every time. If you don't think $50 is enough for a tracked out beat, raise your prices.

EDIT: this is my stance because most beatmakers suck at mixing. If you can produce good-sounding two-tracks for an emcee to rap over, and wanna sell em for whatever, more power to ya. But if your **** sounds bad, and I get a client bitchin' at me cuz I can't make it sound like "famous dude X"'s single, I get cranky. (not necessarily your fault, I understand, but goddamn it's annoyingheh)
I hear ur pov as an engineer but I don't deal with engineers I deal with rappers who generally don't care. They like how the beat sounds and often don't want to mix it again ur right. I used to push tracked beats onto artists when I was doing it all in software and it was all at the push of a button. Now most rappers want it right off the cd I 2tracked it to. So I say **** it let them have it 2tracked and charge for me having to go into my archives and find old material that I may have to recreate if I can't find it so that they can have a tracked version.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 ➑️
If this producer is halfway decent, he should easily be able to do what bgrotto said.

Slave the motif to the daw using midi clock. Set the DAW play at the same tempo as the machine. Enable midi clock on whatever output port is connected to the input port on the motif. Make sure the Motif is in slave/external clock mode. Make sure the outputs for each sound used are routed to their prospective inputs on the interface being used to record.

The joy of midi makes it so that even if you only have 2 channels, each pass will ensure everything is sync'd up.

He needs to do this so that you can copy/paste bars here and there where you need to.

Any "producer" not capable of such a task is a joke. Midi sync is production 101.
that's not the case on my bull**** pc. Sometimes parts record off beat just because they do. I need a better computer yes but right now for what I have 2 tracking can get the job done for most rappers who don't care about having radio quality. Lets face it if a rapper is only going to spend $20 to $50 on a track chances are they probably don't have the money to push this project hard enough to majorly effect me. So why take time away from doing what I love to do to do something that I find annoying (tracking). Cats rap on 2 track beats all the time and are totally happy with it as long as the vocals are clear and the beat bangs and everything is clear most rappers are generally happy in my experience
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➑️





Very true!



Also, even on leases the beats should be tracked out. You track it out once, you lease the track 30 times. Why not track it out? It would just make your beat sound worse as a producer and make the quality of the product drop. The mix could easily advance you and make you more marketable.
Ideally having all beats tracked and mixed professionlly would be ideal but its cheaper to keep an engineer on staff than to pay each time u make a beat. I know cats who make 5 or 6 beats a day. I'm not that way I may make that a week but I know people who can. Besides that I wouldn't consider myself setup for that. I simply run the stereo outs from all of my hardware into my mixer do a sub mix there and record it to sonar make a mp3 and that's it. If the rapper likes what he hears on cd great ill sell him that. I wouldn't consider most rappers that buy a lease track as someone lookin to help promote me. Matter fact they usually don't even credit u for the beat u made unless u ask them to. Rappers r selfish.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➑️
Ideally having all beats tracked and mixed professionlly would be ideal but its cheaper to keep an engineer on staff than to pay each time u make a beat. I know cats who make 5 or 6 beats a day. I'm not that way I may make that a week but I know people who can. Besides that I wouldn't consider myself setup for that. I simply run the stereo outs from all of my hardware into my mixer do a sub mix there and record it to sonar make a mp3 and that's it. If the rapper likes what he hears on cd great ill sell him that. I wouldn't consider most rappers that buy a lease track as someone lookin to help promote me. Matter fact they usually don't even credit u for the beat u made unless u ask them to. Rappers r selfish.

I understand where you coming from. It's places like this that's helped me get my knowledge up. I'm giving credit to the producers I work with. At the same time, back in the day we'd always have other groups asking who did the beats for our songs at the shows we performed. It sounded good because it was mixed for a live performance, and we got the levels right at the mic checks. I'm setting myself up to do shows and advance in rap so I need that tracked out beat. Sometimes the lead synths are too loud, actually alot of times they are. At the least some sort of stems if asked, but I see where you coming from. Most producers are working ITB so it's no a major problem in that respect. Rappers probably don't credit cause they aren't educated on the game. It's important for everyone to get proper credit. This goes across the board in any industry. Hell, my old boss would give credit to secretaries for bringing the soda to a banquet and how it wouldn't be possible without their soda. Either way I've learned as a rapper, you take care of you DJs, producers, engineers, videographers, photographers, execs, and admin. All of them play a part in you being successful. You take care of your whole circle because it takes a team effort. Lol dam I'm ranting. Sry homie!
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
It shouldn't take more than a half hour to track a beat out, and that's if there's only two outputs on the source device. If you have a rig with multiple outs, you should be able to lay the beat out in a pass or two, which shouldn't take more than ten minutes.

If you haven't programmed drops in, you can track in just the loop (four, eight, whatever bars) and be done in minutes.
yeah I started to work like that a while ago and it definetely works for me. fast and flexible.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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ORyan87's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 ➑️
If this producer is halfway decent, he should easily be able to do what bgrotto said.

Slave the motif to the daw using midi clock. Set the DAW play at the same tempo as the machine. Enable midi clock on whatever output port is connected to the input port on the motif. Make sure the Motif is in slave/external clock mode. Make sure the outputs for each sound used are routed to their prospective inputs on the interface being used to record.

The joy of midi makes it so that even if you only have 2 channels, each pass will ensure everything is sync'd up.

He needs to do this so that you can copy/paste bars here and there where you need to.

Any "producer" not capable of such a task is a joke. Midi sync is production 101.
Lol.....All he has to do is break down the tracks then run solo one by one each pass, Then within 30 mins the beat is ready for drops and edits. Thats cupcake stuff.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Well, the Data CD's are in the mail - I'll let you know what I get on em!

Regarding "rappers" being happy with just 2 tracked stuff ... it depends on their level, the type of project and really... their experience putting out material. Just starting out, just making music as a hobby, first mixtape or street album, experimenting, etc... single mixdown works.

I was happy with a single mixdown before because I just didn't know any better. I mean, it sounded good to me because I didn't have a precedent. Then I went and tried to take those finished "songs" to a mix engineer to get shined up and ready to be released. It was then that I realized how it ties the hands of my engineer and puts a really low ceiling on my quality. ( literally seeing him cringe, and I came to grips with the fact that my existing project was me shining a turd ) If I wanted too sound as ill as possible and get great quality I needed to bring in track outs for my next project.

So now I'm starting to plan the next project, of course take it to the next level soundwise and to do that I need track outs. At this point, if a producer can't provide track outs I can't buy from him. I've actually found some really dope tracks that are very reasonably price and I would love to buy. Contacted dude, says it's too old and he can only get me the mixdown .. no track outs. I have to say thanks but no thanks man.

Regarding "rappers" not giving credit ...
Don't know how common this is, but I think there are a couple of issues at play here. If the dude has a jacked, free, or leased beat ... he is hesitant to give info that leads to that being common knowledge. Makes him look more amateur. If the dude thinks he found some diamond in the rough production and thinks he's found a well kept secret ... they may be reluctant to share their source. Or homey could be hard up and not afford liner notes! Either way **** is lame. Personally I'm proud of my connects, try to get exclusives and hope any music that results builds for both of us so I'm crediting production.
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