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Why So Many Tracks?
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down ➑️
depends on the genre, but since this is a hip hop forum...
tell me what's on those 32 tracks when dealing with a typical hip hop tune?
assuming there's just 1 mc on it.
I edited my response a little so it applies to more scenarios.

Well assuming there is 1 MC, you still can have adlibs or backups, and also doubles, so I like to give the MC 8 tracks just to be safe

I can do a whole hip hop song with 24 tracks.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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bgrotto's Avatar
I get large track-counts pretty frequently to mix; when there's multiple samples layered to form one sound (ie - a low, mid, and hi snare), I submix them in PT and return them to a single fader on the desk.

If those kinds of tracks were made just ten years ago, it's likely they'd have been submixed to tape, so while there may be three snares, the engineer is ultimately only dealing with one track. I have mixed feelings on whether I wish this were still the case or not. On one hand, a lot of beatmakers create phase-cancellation issue when layering low-frequency instruments, such as kicks. Combining them to tape would make it impossible to correct those problems. On the other hand, in addition to the sheer simplicity of mixing fewer tracks, I'm occasionally tempted to "correct" something that sounded fine in the first place... It's a tough call.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
I get large track-counts pretty frequently to mix; when there's multiple samples layered to form one sound (ie - a low, mid, and hi snare), I submix them in PT and return them to a single fader on the desk.

If those kinds of tracks were made just ten years ago, it's likely they'd have been submixed to tape, so while there may be three snares, the engineer is ultimately only dealing with one track. I have mixed feelings on whether I wish this were still the case or not. On one hand, a lot of beatmakers create phase-cancellation issue when layering low-frequency instruments, such as kicks. Combining them to tape would make it impossible to correct those problems. On the other hand, in addition to the sheer simplicity of mixing fewer tracks, I'm occasionally tempted to "correct" something that sounded fine in the first place... It's a tough call.
Yep. Well you would just have to replace the guy's drums in that situation if they are not layered right.

I still believe that you take a huge stride as a producer once you get your ears right and can commit to a sound. If the result means that the ME has to replace your drums with his, then you live and learn.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
...I'm occasionally tempted to "correct" something that sounded fine in the first place...
heh
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Maybe I'm old school in my train of thought as far as music production and techniques go. I follow the belief that a great song is a great song regardless of how it was achieved. However, where I start to have differences with that train of thought is if someone is adding instruments and layers and tracks just for the sake of doing so.

I think so many of the high track count is also a byproduct of the revolution of digital technology. I guarantee you, anybody worth their salt would still be able to make a hot track with limited technology and limited track counts. This isn't necessarily a knock on anybody who does use high track counts. I'm just merely saying that I've seen producers who add and add and add more things to songs that are already great just because the options are available to them.

I know this sounds crazy, but at that point, it kinda becomes this sort of thing where the technology is actually taking advantage of YOU! Its like your DAW is sayin... "Hey man... come on man... add another kick in there... you know u can do it. In fact... you might need 3 more layers of harmonies too... heck why not... we got 50 free tracks left !!" LOL
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlacck ➑️
I know this sounds crazy, but at that point, it kinda becomes this sort of thing where the technology is actually taking advantage of YOU! Its like your DAW is sayin... "Hey man... come on man... add another kick in there... you know u can do it. In fact... you might need 3 more layers of harmonies too... heck why not... we got 50 free tracks left !!" LOL
heh
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkyboy11 ➑️

My usual project is Battery 3 with 8-12 sounds, Kontakt with 2 or 3, one of the synths with 2 or 3. So I range from 10 tracks to 18 tracks of instrumentation per project. Exception would be a recent project that is about 5 tracks because I used a nice loop and built around that.

Yeah That's just it. If you use Battery, you can have as many samples as you want in there, and they can all be still one track. You have separate channels within one track.

I guess if the question is "how many channels?" then yeah you have a lot, because obviously every channel is routed separately independent of the track. With a multisampler you can have an entire song with just one track.

I think the semantics change when it comes to midi and DAWs.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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Eloheim's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlacck ➑️
I know this sounds crazy, but at that point, it kinda becomes this sort of thing where the technology is actually taking advantage of YOU! Its like your DAW is sayin... "Hey man... come on man... add another kick in there... you know u can do it. In fact... you might need 3 more layers of harmonies too... heck why not... we got 50 free tracks left !!" LOL
I really dont have much productive to add, but this is just too funny...heh. I will say I liked keyflo's description of his general hip hop template though. Is it normal for you to use a clap on every single song? Or is it just common enough that you always have a track for it to begin with?

And one more question. I always see "Percussion" treated as a single track. Isn't the perc hodge-podge of instruments and sounds gonna need more solo processing for each one, because they're so different? For example, isn't your snare & clap gonna be more alike then two random percussion instruments? Or are all the perc just together because they play a lesser roll in the song, whereas the snare and clap are front and center?
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
standard session is

15 - Drums and Percussion
8 - 10 for other main elements
8 - for vocals and suff

6 - 10 for busses and effects and what ever the track needs
most end up ust under 40, but there is rarely more then 8 at one time.
i prefer to have everything sepperated on its own track for maximum tweaking
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
25-30...nice and simple
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
PinnacleProdUK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
zSHARE - untitled.JPG <------- One of my typical projects for a hip hop Track
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinnacleProdUK ➑️
zSHARE - untitled.JPG <------- One of my typical projects for a hip hop Track
That's not bad considering you have vocals in with the music... You only have about 12-15 tracks of music which is about standard in my opinion...
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
i really think people do it for to reason

1. because they can
2. they think it will make their beat "thick and warm"
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Perfect explanation: https://gearspace.com/board/rap-hip-...se-tracks.html
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I agree there are way to many trax these dayz. I used to, actually still love old LL Cool J and I'm pretty sure he wasnt using tons of trax.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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bobsandifer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Most of the tracks that show up from HOME produced work is in the 6 to 8 range. Once we finish producing, mixing and mastering the track usually doubles+

I just got out of a session that had 23 vocal tracks. Pretty usual for our place.
Old 4th February 2009
  #47
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dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I remember a hip-hop album i mixed, they sent me everything, and i mean EVERYTHING in stereo tracks, for instance the Mono vocal, in a stereo track. But thats not all!, they divided each word the vocalist said in a different track (stereo btw). For example if the phrase said: "tomorrow is going to be a sunny day". They sent me a stereo file with the word "tomorrow", another stereo track with the word "is", another stereo track with the word "going", you get the picture. So i had this huge sessions, and after a long long time editing, and compacting them, they ended up in the 8 to 16 track. So i asked to myself WTF??????????
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
I remember a hip-hop album i mixed, they sent me everything, and i mean EVERYTHING in stereo tracks, for instance the Mono vocal, in a stereo track. But thats not all!, they divided each word the vocalist said in a different track (stereo btw). For example if the phrase said: "tomorrow is going to be a sunny day". They sent me a stereo file with the word "tomorrow", another stereo track with the word "is", another stereo track with the word "going", you get the picture. So i had this huge sessions, and after a long long time editing, and compacting them, they ended up in the 8 to 16 track. So i asked to myself WTF??????????
Hell to da naw...
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
great question. My only answer could be that producers for some reason use tons upon tons of layers in their music to make the sounds sound fuller. Yes great source sounds are the start but I never understood why producers layer every single sound into the daw either. i myself try to submix as many layers as possible into the computer in hopes of using less tracks when it comes time to mix. I also don't understand why artists use so many tracks. Ive foundt hat more than 10 vocal tracks is really over kill. And 10 is a lot imo but I see so many use 40 tracks easy espeically singers
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
My average session has around 48 tracks for r&b, soul, hiphop. Keep in mind 20 of them might be vocals. And if I'm using live drums 8-12 of them are for drums. So it quickly adds up...
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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staudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been working on a song that has:

3 Lead Vocals (1 lead and 2 doubles for stereo)
7 Male Unison Backing Vocals
7 Male Harmonies at Interval X
7 Male Harmonies at Interval Y
7 Female Unison Backing Vocals
7 Female Harmonies at Interval X
7 Female Harmonies at Interval Y

Which gives a total of 45 vocal tracks. It is easy to fill up tracks with vocals when going for a massive chorused sound. Not right for everything but sometimes it really does add to the song.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicegenius ➑️
That's a good one. Here's another where I broke it all down with an example for the rock guys: https://gearspace.com/board/3534491-post31.html
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #53
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➑️
That's a good one. Here's another where I broke it all down with an example for the rock guys: https://gearspace.com/board/3534491-post31.html
Another great post!
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
I remember a hip-hop album i mixed, they sent me everything, and i mean EVERYTHING in stereo tracks, for instance the Mono vocal, in a stereo track. But thats not all!, they divided each word the vocalist said in a different track (stereo btw). For example if the phrase said: "tomorrow is going to be a sunny day". They sent me a stereo file with the word "tomorrow", another stereo track with the word "is", another stereo track with the word "going", you get the picture. So i had this huge sessions, and after a long long time editing, and compacting them, they ended up in the 8 to 16 track. So i asked to myself WTF??????????
Idiots!!
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Lives for gear
 
phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio ➑️
I've been working on a song that has:

3 Lead Vocals (1 lead and 2 doubles for stereo)
7 Male Unison Backing Vocals
7 Male Harmonies at Interval X
7 Male Harmonies at Interval Y
7 Female Unison Backing Vocals
7 Female Harmonies at Interval X
7 Female Harmonies at Interval Y

Which gives a total of 45 vocal tracks. It is easy to fill up tracks with vocals when going for a massive chorused sound. Not right for everything but sometimes it really does add to the song.
Why 7?
If you do eight of each at least you can balance them properly...and then so stereo stems of each part and a stereo stem of the combined stems.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
I remember a hip-hop album i mixed, they sent me everything, and i mean EVERYTHING in stereo tracks, for instance the Mono vocal, in a stereo track. But thats not all!, they divided each word the vocalist said in a different track (stereo btw). For example if the phrase said: "tomorrow is going to be a sunny day". They sent me a stereo file with the word "tomorrow", another stereo track with the word "is", another stereo track with the word "going", you get the picture. So i had this huge sessions, and after a long long time editing, and compacting them, they ended up in the 8 to 16 track. So i asked to myself WTF??????????
Did your wrist wounds heal ok?
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
I remember a hip-hop album i mixed, they sent me everything, and i mean EVERYTHING in stereo tracks, for instance the Mono vocal, in a stereo track. But thats not all!, they divided each word the vocalist said in a different track (stereo btw). For example if the phrase said: "tomorrow is going to be a sunny day". They sent me a stereo file with the word "tomorrow", another stereo track with the word "is", another stereo track with the word "going", you get the picture. So i had this huge sessions, and after a long long time editing, and compacting them, they ended up in the 8 to 16 track. So i asked to myself WTF??????????
wtf?

imagine the work they put into that LOL fukin dumbasses... then they goina pay you on top of all that wasted time. omg
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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staudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman ➑️
Why 7?
If you do eight of each at least you can balance them properly...and then so stereo stems of each part and a stereo stem of the combined stems.
Originally the vocalist wanted to use 5 and have the other 2 for editing options, but the takes all came out so well we decided to use them all.

I panned each set of 7:

Hard L
Mid L
Slightly L
Center
Slightly R
Mid R
Hard R

Did you mean keep the center free and have 4 left and 4 right?
Old 23rd July 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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voicegenius's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
bump cause I just read that Chris (chrislago) just made a demo with 111 tracks and still counting!!
Old 23rd July 2009
  #60
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicegenius ➑️
How many tracks (average) do you guys usually end up with when making hip hop tracks? I know the R&B/Pop records can get up there in the 96 track range, but I'm hearing some guys are up to 48 tracks W/O VOCALS!!! WTF!! I mean I can get up to like 18 and be like, "Damn, this is a lot of tracks..." I can't profess to be an engineer, but I wonder if you guys (engineers) get annoyed if you have 1,000,000 tracks of NOTHINGNESS to mix... If you got good samples to begin with, I don't think you would need all those tracks... Unless you're hiring an orchestra for your track, then maybe... Maybe I'm wrong... This is my last thread for the week....heh
My last track I just did is up to 70 with out vocals
some times it goes up to 150 or more.
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