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Overdriven Drums or general (Dr dre and some others) ?
Old 21st January 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Overdriven Drums or general (Dr dre and some others) ?

Hello,

I've been trying to figure this out for some time now. I have great drums sounds already and this thread is not about individual sound, but i'm trying to understand how to get that overdriven general drums sound ITB ? So far the only thing i've tried that was close to that feel was using the adaptive limiter in Logic (overdrive preset)on the drum bus but using this plug in causes latency and then the drums are late compared to the music.

That feel i'm talking about can be heard on a lot of Dre beat, but i also remember lots of fellow producer from New York having that distorted sound on the general (probably because they were recording the 2-track from mpc through a regular analog mixer).
What i like is especialy when the kick and the hhs hit together there's this slight distortion/overdrive, but not too crazy. It's subtle but add great energy it gives the impression everything is hitting soo hard !

Is there a way to recreate that effect in Logic or any other DAW ? i've tried the parralel comp thing but i'm looking for more of a general glue to my mixes/drum buss.

can someone help ?
Old 21st January 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You can't make the Adaptive Limiter work with Automatic Delay Compensation?
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I got my own drum library, and I intentionally create analog distortion when I'm making my own drums. And it works for me. Since I'm using my own library, drums needs less or no tweaking and mixing is never really a problem.

if you have some analog stuff and good soundcard, spend a few hours creating your drum sounds and give them the distortion you want to hear.

it's less expensive than mixing all your stuff on consoles.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
My favorite distortion box is the Sansamp PSA 1. The only plugin version of it is RTAS/TDM, although the hardware is better anyway and shouldn't be too hard to hook up to a Logic rig (though latency might still be an issue; I'm not sure how Logic handles H/W inserts).
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
My favorite distortion box is the Sansamp PSA 1. The only plugin version of it is RTAS/TDM, although the hardware is better anyway and shouldn't be too hard to hook up to a Logic rig (though latency might still be an issue; I'm not sure how Logic handles H/W inserts).
Sadly, Logic doesn't really 'handle' H/W inserts.
... Yeah, I know about Automatic Latency Compensation, the I/O plug-in and manually compensating for the latency of the converters. I still feel Logic is unintuitive when it comes to inserting H/W, and though I use Logic every day, it's my biggest point of critique to the program.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight ➑️
I got my own drum library, and I intentionally create analog distortion when I'm making my own drums. And it works for me. Since I'm using my own library, drums needs less or no tweaking and mixing is never really a problem.

if you have some analog stuff and good soundcard, spend a few hours creating your drum sounds and give them the distortion you want to hear.

it's less expensive than mixing all your stuff on consoles.
I've already mentioned that i had great drums sounds. It's not about the individuals sound, my question is more about the drum bus or the general mix. Think about the way an analog mixer overdrive: it adds glue and subtle distortion.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
...and the closest i came to was the adaptive limiter in Logic with "Overdrive limit" setting.
Even the L2-L3 limiters don't do that effect...they tend to be too clean (it may be not for the same purpose either)
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel ➑️
I've already mentioned that i had great drums sounds. It's not about the individuals sound, my question is more about the drum bus or the general mix. Think about the way an analog mixer overdrive: it adds glue and subtle distortion.
I understood your question, I'm just saying that I've found it possible to give that analog overdrive to the individual samples in the first place instead of giving it them in the mixing process. You don't need the other tracks in order to give your kick some additional "fire".
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
I hear you. Something else i've tried and was great was the Culture Vulture a friend of mine owns... it's perfect but i don't own one yet.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
on a bus...

apple's au bandpass filter
logic's 'clip distortion' plug-in or any distortion plug-in you like.
logic's adaptive limiter.

fine tune what gets sent to the distortion with the band pass filter.

and if you still have latency issues go to:

preferences > audio > general

and set plug in delay compensation to 'all'
you should be straight after that.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
gorillainthemix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sansamp PSA-1 is great, the plug-in sounds very nice though it's very easy to "overdo" the effect....plus it's very recognizable. I also use a Tech-21 Comptortion pedal, works really well on kicks.
I like to put PSP Vintagewarmer on my drum bus and play with the "Drive" dial
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
gorillainthemix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel ➑️
...and the closest i came to was the adaptive limiter in Logic with "Overdrive limit" setting.
Even the L2-L3 limiters don't do that effect...they tend to be too clean (it may be not for the same purpose either)
Even? They're not supposed to..."Even" messing with the profile won't give you that effect.
What you're creating here is nothing close to the "overdriven" effect you're referring to in your first post. Overdrive from the Lx limiters is horrendous digital noise, imo.
If I understand your question correctly, I think the PSP Vintagewarmer would be great for you.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Certain compressors can give you a distorted sounds. Parallel comp: Super fast attack and a super fast release and slam the **** out of the drums. Add to original drums to taste. Or plugs like MixSaturator (PSP) are awesome from drum distortion. In fact, i usually use a combination of Mixpressor (slammed) and Mixsaturator when i am going for a distorted sound.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It's simple...get your drum bus (with AD limiter)sounding the way you want and bounce that out and fly it back into the session and line it up...bingo...and this way you can even use it more of a back bus if need be...the ad limiter is a great plug, but it is designed for the mix buss so I don't think it works with delay compensation....and yes you can definitely insert hardware with logic...I've been doing it for the last month...and enjoying it tremendously.

Nick
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
they r doing it while mixing on a real analog SSL. Try waves ssl channel on drum bus- it overdrives/distorts very nicely
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Diesel, I know what you are saying and the only plugin that I like for this task is called Vogue. It is a channel strip emu and you can drive the hell out of it. I mix with Vogue on all of my stems. It has compression, a pre, FX and a multiband comp. It definitely will glue your drums and at the same time keep them huge in the mix without clipping.

Softube came out with a FET compressor that I bet does an amazing job too. I know it distorts and most likely sounds amazing. Their plugins are some of the best IMO.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Sirocco's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
a lot of it has to do with proper gain staging in between plugins and hardware

also, i find that the psp audioware xenon can handle transients, limit them, and not kill them -- like most plugins do. also, check out gclip, freeware, and throw it in the chain
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Thank you guys, i have many things to try with all these ideas. I thought about bouncing the bus with AD limiter an then realign, i will also try this other plugs you've mentioned !
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
tonymission's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i use a couple parallel "distortion" busses in logic ...

typically my kick track gets sent (-6) to a bus with logic overdrive and adjust the tone to the 90-250 range depending on the kick... then i roll of the main kick a bit where the overdrive was being accentuated. both of these outputs are sent to my main drums bus which also might have an overdrive send to a different bus but much lighter (1-2db) and 20k on the tone ...

i avoid this on snares as my process is different for those heh
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tonymission's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
btw - i hate ad limiter on drums...

i try to make sure my drums dynamics are tidy before any audio ever hits the master bus (where i usually do run ad-limiter for 2-track bounces) ... makes kicks sound like **** imo.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My fav distortion plugin is hydratone, sound really close to an analog device. another one that I like is the oxford dynamics with the "warmth" in.
Old 21st January 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Synthy08's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel ➑️
Hello,

I've been trying to figure this out for some time now. I have great drums sounds already and this thread is not about individual sound, but i'm trying to understand how to get that overdriven general drums sound ITB ? So far the only thing i've tried that was close to that feel was using the adaptive limiter in Logic (overdrive preset)on the drum bus but using this plug in causes latency and then the drums are late compared to the music.

That feel i'm talking about can be heard on a lot of Dre beat, but i also remember lots of fellow producer from New York having that distorted sound on the general (probably because they were recording the 2-track from mpc through a regular analog mixer).
What i like is especialy when the kick and the hhs hit together there's this slight distortion/overdrive, but not too crazy. It's subtle but add great energy it gives the impression everything is hitting soo hard !

Is there a way to recreate that effect in Logic or any other DAW ? i've tried the parralel comp thing but i'm looking for more of a general glue to my mixes/drum buss.

can someone help ?
What do you mean by overdriven drums? can you give me some example of songs that have that?
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
here's a good example of the type of overdriven drums i'm reffering too. listen to the kick-hh relationship.
Attached Files

stat quo.mp3 (627.4 KB, 1242 views)

Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymission ➑️
i use a couple parallel "distortion" busses in logic ...

typically my kick track gets sent (-6) to a bus with logic overdrive and adjust the tone to the 90-250 range depending on the kick... then i roll of the main kick a bit where the overdrive was being accentuated. both of these outputs are sent to my main drums bus which also might have an overdrive send to a different bus but much lighter (1-2db) and 20k on the tone ...

i avoid this on snares as my process is different for those heh
Great tip ! i've tried and i like what i'm hearing.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab ➑️
Diesel, I know what you are saying and the only plugin that I like for this task is called Vogue. It is a channel strip emu and you can drive the hell out of it. I mix with Vogue on all of my stems. It has compression, a pre, FX and a multiband comp. It definitely will glue your drums and at the same time keep them huge in the mix without clipping.

Softube came out with a FET compressor that I bet does an amazing job too. I know it distorts and most likely sounds amazing. Their plugins are some of the best IMO.
Dude thanx, these are two great plugins. Especially the Softube FET... there's even a preset called "Drum Bus soft glue" lol
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by computa ➑️
they r doing it while mixing on a real analog SSL. Try waves ssl channel on drum bus- it overdrives/distorts very nicely
You are correct.. It's the crunch of the pre-9000J series channel compressors and EQ's (anything from a 4000E - 6000 - and the rarer 8000 consoles).
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
orangeoctane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➑️
You are correct.. It's the crunch of the pre-9000J series channel compressors and EQ's (anything from a 4000E - 6000 - and the rarer 8000 consoles).
Alan Smart C1 or C2 fit the bill here? I thought they were modeled after the 4000 series mixbus? I use the C2 quite a bit but am hearing that the C1 has a distinctively different character.

Any thoughts?
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeoctane ➑️
Alan Smart C1 or C2 fit the bill here? I thought they were modeled after the 4000 series mixbus? I use the C2 quite a bit but am hearing that the C1 has a distinctively different character.

Any thoughts?
The mixbuss compressor is a totally different circuit than the channel compressor... it sounds different in the way it compresses. The closest thing to the channel EQ's and compressors in the console would be the X-Rack 4000 E modules.

Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➑️
You are correct.. It's the crunch of the pre-9000J series channel compressors and EQ's (anything from a 4000E - 6000 - and the rarer 8000 consoles).
T wassup duude ?? so do you think the plug-in version would make the trick ? I haven't tried the waves ssl pack yet.
Old 22nd January 2009
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Magic Theatre's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Is there a way to recreate that effect in Logic or any other DAW ? i've tried the parralel comp thing but i'm looking for more of a general glue to my mixes/drum buss.

I find the URS strip Pro, does a great job glueing the Drum Buss

The URS Saturation I find adds a really nice distortion and a glue efffect on the Drum Buss too.

But I think good gain structure using a good D.I. and a pre is the best way you can get that sound. I like to drive the input on the GTQ2 pre hard, adds great harmonic distortion and a subtle overdiven sound.


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