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(HELP) 10k Budget, first vocal chain.
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #61
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chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
That's exactly what I told Bezos, when he was starting out.
When he wanted to start "Newport Bay Shipping"...

Told him to "think bigger".
Voila! "Amazon".
Chris
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #62
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
The most important part of a rap vocal chain is this watch (took a picture of mine). Most important.
Attached Thumbnails
(HELP) 10k Budget, first vocal chain.-16422149534631622460412421103954.jpg  
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #63
Deleted 46bcc36
Guest
That’s a beautiful nautilus. I didn’t know they made a white faced gold model. What an heirloom!
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #64
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 46bcc36 ➡️
That’s a beautiful nautilus. I didn’t know they made a white faced gold model. What an heirloom!
Yep they do make it in gold!
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
The most important part of a rap vocal chain is this watch (took a picture of mine). Most important.
"is this watch"
Watch what?
Chris
Old 15th January 2022
  #66
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Fegert ➡️
Greetings! Happy holidays.

OVERVIEW

I am forming my first small business in April, and will be recording hiphop. I have a 10k budget for purchasing equipment NECESSARY to begin service. I am looking for yalls thoughts and concerns for my plan.

GOAL

My budget is 10k, and I am going for a clean, modern, and translatable vocal sound. Think Future - Massage in My Room. I am NOT going for the crushed, in your face, C800G bright rap vocal; think Lil Gotit - Burnt N Turnt.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

option 1: U67 Reissue > Shelford Channel
option 2: U87 Ai > BAE 1073MP > CL1B
option 3: ? (YOU DECIDE!!!)

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Everything depends on your needs. Will you only record at home, or do you want to take a microphone on a trip?

If you really want to drop 10k on a vocal chain, it's hard to come up with something better than U87 -> 1073 -> 1176 -> LA2A. This is a classic.

If you're going to leave the house, believe me - taking LA2A, CL1B and whatever else will be problematic. Just take a Neumann 87 and plug it into the Apollo. Future records vocals in a blackface Brandnew U87ai he got in his studio.

BTW GA-8000 is a good option because it's still good and doesn't bright as a real sony. But believe me, for rapping
uou can use almost any microphone. Just take what you like best... I mean how it looks)
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Agree with virtually everything you posted.
Yet...
I'm in agreement with the late/great Mike Tarsia (posted as Sigma at GS)...
That the 737 Pre isn't really "transparent".
I much prefer the M5's (new incarnation V5) Avalon's tone, over it.

Also Audioscape is a great value, with it's various products.
Chris
P.S. IMHO while Hip Hop and/or Rap artists usually don't know as much about gear directly...
The many musical innovations within the Genres, and many of the Producers, is very creative.
O! Hey Chris, and really, the M5 is the best preamp available. It's a bit hard to buy, though... But if I were to get a preamp for u87, it would be an M5! I like the tone too

And good new avatar btw!!!)))
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Hi Yves. Thanks! I missed my old Avatar. The M5 IMHO it's a bit underated here at GS.

Yet Paul G's (and other notables) positive feedback regarding the Coil Pre's...
Put those on the A+ "fantasy Pre list" for me.

Until if/when I personally have a very well treated recording area,
not a pragmatic purchase for me.

Something like a Useful Arts Hornet, or GAP-73 Premier, is closer to my sonic paygrade.
Chris
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Hi Yves. Thanks! I missed my old Avatar. The M5 IMHO it's a bit underated here at GS.

Yet Paul G's (and other notables) positive feedback regarding the Coil Pre's...
Put those on the A+ "fantasy Pre list" for me.

Until if/when I personally have a very well treated recording area,
not a pragmatic purchase for me.

Something like a Useful Arts Hornet, or GAP-73 Premier, is closer to my sonic paygrade.
Chris
Is this your old avatar? I wanted to write oldnew because I've seen this pic before! But I wasn't sure. I know that you had another account with an older registration date because I saw your comments when I read some topics... You've been on this forum for almost 20 years. Big time.

Over the past two months, I've looked at a lot of reviews and nothing sounded better than the M5 + 1176 + LA2A. Сlassic is a classic.
For OP M5 is good advice. For rap vocals, it's really better and bigger than 1073. M5 is the best pre I've heard, especially for rap vocals.

I read that Mariah Carrey used kind of this. This + Sony C800G... And CL1B. Ideal chain for modern vocals. But I won't buy it because I don't have a treated room and it will be useless. I took Rode NTR because I REALLY like how it sounds on vocals, and because, in theory, it should capture fewer room reflections than a condenser, but I don't know how it would sound on RAP vocals.
Many people do not recommend using ribbon microphones for rap recording. Why? NTR must be very good. The ribbon is very, very big and this mic sounds great. I cannot try it out, since my voice has not fully recovered after covid and I don't wanna harras my vocal cords for a month or even two... Especially for rapping ... Lord.
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #70
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Slaziett ➡️
Is this your old avatar? I wanted to write oldnew because I've seen this pic before! But I wasn't sure. I know that you had another account with an older registration date because I saw your comments when I read some topics... You've been on this forum for almost 20 years. Big time.

Over the past two months, I've looked at a lot of reviews and nothing sounded better than the M5 + 1176 + LA2A. Сlassic is a classic.
For OP M5 is good advice. For rap vocals, it's really better and bigger than 1073. M5 is the best pre I've heard, especially for rap vocals.

I read that Mariah Carrey used kind of this. This + Sony C800G... And CL1B. Ideal chain for modern vocals. But I won't buy it because I don't have a treated room and it will be useless. I took Rode NTR because I REALLY like how it sounds on vocals, and because, in theory, it should capture fewer room reflections than a condenser, but I don't know how it would sound on RAP vocals.
Many people do not recommend using ribbon microphones for rap recording. Why? NTR must be very good. The ribbon is very, very big and this mic sounds great. I cannot try it out, since my voice has not fully recovered after covid and I don't wanna harras my vocal cords for a month or even two... Especially for rapping ... Lord.
I'm not sure if you knew this already but Lil Baby usually records with the Rode NTR. https://youtu.be/LTkQISOro2M

I record daily with my c800g/Tg2 and Cl1b and honestly it's very overrated. I have the AA cm800t as well and it's just as good and cheaper too.
Old 15th January 2022 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
I'm not sure if you knew this already but Lil Baby usually records with the Rode NTR. https://youtu.be/LTkQISOro2M

I record daily with my c800g/Tg2 and Cl1b and honestly it's very overrated. I have the AA cm800t as well and it's just as good and cheaper too.
It doesn't look like he "usually records" in NTR. It looks like he did it for some promo video. Just because this mic looks good! Lol!
Rappers like Lil Baby record their vocals in any mike that will be in the studio.

**~add
But thanks man! You helped me. I finally found A LOT Rap performances with Rode NTR! This show called is VEVO Ctrl! And they ALL records into it... wow! I can already tell that it sounds quite cool! But I hear something strange... I can't describe it. It is like "sand".

** I listened again, there were a couple of other microphones. It sounds the same. Their mixes are just bad. These huge reverbs on rap vocals... vevo, bro, A$AP Ferg are not Lana Del Rey, he doesn't need a lot of reverb. There are a couple of cool examples and the microphone should sound great!

Last edited by Yves Slaziett; 15th January 2022 at 02:35 PM.. Reason: Added opinion!
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #72
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
I was trying to listen to some of the examples, but honestly the lyrics are such mysoginistic garbage, it turns me off so fast, I couldn't listen to it. It's music mostly made for young men I find.

I only listen to Lo Fi Hip Hop now, no lyrics, none of that offensive garbage that's only made for bro gym dude. I used to be one of them and now it's embarrassing.

Asap Ferg releases "Plain Jane" and it's better than anything out there lol. At least he's talking about some real shit, none of that lowest common denominator garbage.
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
I was trying to listen to some of the examples, but honestly the lyrics are such mysoginistic garbage, it turns me off so fast, I couldn't listen to it. It's music mostly made for young men I find.

I only listen to Lo Fi Hip Hop now, no lyrics, none of that offensive garbage that's only made for bro gym dude. I used to be one of them and now it's embarrassing.

Asap Ferg releases "Plain Jane" and it's better than anything out there lol. At least he's talking about some real shit, none of that lowest common denominator garbage.
I love Ferg.
I don't listen to any track from that playlist. Except old classics. Like Ferg etc... So I can't say anything about lyrics. I'm also not a native English speaker, so, it's hard for to me, listen to lyrics "as is".

But i really like Rode NTR. Not condenser.. fewer reflections... good choice.
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
I'm not sure if you knew this already but Lil Baby usually records with the Rode NTR. https://youtu.be/LTkQISOro2M

I record daily with my c800g/Tg2 and Cl1b and honestly it's very overrated. I have the AA cm800t as well and it's just as good and cheaper too.
Lil Baby uses a C800G mostly. Has recorded on a U87 too.
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #75
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
For a clean modern pop hip-hop styles You want a Manley reference cardiod mic, ($3.3k) a CLEAN PREAMP idk why everyone is taking about neves… go for a tube pre that will give some body yet sound polished and modern but not sterile. The new 2 channel aPIs I hear are nice (2k) or a UAD solo (1k) the retro 500 (1k) or the shelford but thems pricey 4k

And depending on what you pic you got plenty of money for a nice optical compressor or 1176 or both.

I’d look at the summit audio 100a (2kish) audioscaoen opt0 (1k la2a) or a manely elop-+ Which is about three to $4000 and has two channels a very clean and musical tube opto compression you can use that on your tracking or buss or master mixing , which is a really great deal and sounds like something you should definitely consider it has that modern sheen. And for 11 76ers I hear the Wes audio and 500 Mimas is just amazing but that’s obviously more aggressive so it depends on the style of the song but it’s good to have something soft and aggressive when it comes to compression

Last edited by strazza; 16th January 2022 at 04:34 PM..
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strazza ➡️
For a clean modern pop hip-hop styles You want a Manley reference cardiod mic, ($3.3k) a CLEAN PREAMP idk why everyone is taking about neves… go for a tube pre that will give some body yet sound polished and modern but not sterile. The new 2 channel aPIs I hear are nice (2k) or a UAD solo (1k) the retro 500 (1k) or the shelford but thems pricey 4k

And depending on what you pic you got plenty of money for a nice optical compressor or 1176 or both.

I’d look at the summit audio 100a (2kish) audioscaoen opt0 (1k la2a) or a manely elop-+ Which is about three to $4000 and has two channels a very clean and musical tube opto compression you can use that on your tracking or buss or master mixing , which is a really great deal and sounds like something you should definitely consider it has that modern sheen. And for 11 76ers I hear the Wes audio and 500 Mimas is just amazing but that’s obviously more aggressive so it depends on the style of the song but it’s good to have something soft and aggressive when it comes to compression
The reason everyone mentions Neves/certain clones is because when paired with a brighter mic, like a C800G or 251, it provides the low mid push that is usually lacking in those mics. Perfect combo. 800G n 1073 just sounds like a finished record. Add in a CL-1B for the glow and a touch of roof control and there’s a reason why it’s been such a tried and true chain the past two decades. However, over the past 5 years the 251 has become more prevalent. Started mostly in Atlanta rap scene and worked its way out from there. I prefer Aurora or Chandler pre with 251 and RS124 comp. BAE pre does work fine too.

The Ref C can get harsh and distorts easily. You need a 1073/BAE/good clone or something that controls that. Or you change the tube. I’ve never used a stock tube Ref C without a BAE 1073 or something similar to control it. I personally wouldn’t try stock Ref C, clean pre, and 1176. Could be nails on the chalkboard.

I mixed a song weeks ago that had some really good vocals. But I knew it wasn’t a C800G or 251. A&R told me it was a Sony C-100 chain with Retro 500 pre, Tree TreeQ4, Tegeler Vocal Leveler. That chain is less than $5k with the mic.
Old 16th January 2022 | Show parent
  #77
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammynOut2 ➡️
The reason everyone mentions Neves/certain clones is because when paired with a brighter mic, like a C800G or 251, it provides the low mid push that is usually lacking in those mics. Perfect combo. 800G n 1073 just sounds like a finished record. Add in a CL-1B for the glow and a touch of roof control and there’s a reason why it’s been such a tried and true chain the past two decades. However, over the past 5 years the 251 has become more prevalent. Started mostly in Atlanta rap scene and worked its way out from there. I prefer Aurora or Chandler pre with 251 and RS124 comp. BAE pre does work fine too.

The Ref C can get harsh and distorts easily. You need a 1073/BAE/good clone or something that controls that. Or you change the tube. I’ve never used a stock tube Ref C without a BAE 1073 or something similar to control it. I personally wouldn’t try stock Ref C, clean pre, and 1176. Could be nails on the chalkboard.

I mixed a song weeks ago that had some really good vocals. But I knew it wasn’t a C800G or 251. A&R told me it was a Sony C-100 chain with Retro 500 pre, Tree TreeQ4, Tegeler Vocal Leveler. That chain is less than $5k with the mic.
Well he has a 10k budget And everyone is suggesting a 10k mic. I think the ref sounds good for clean bright modern sound but to each their own. And I was suggesting a clean opto if you read my post. The last chain you mentioned sounds good but I have no idea what a c100 sounds like.
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #78
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Slaziett ➡️
I love Ferg.
I don't listen to any track from that playlist. Except old classics. Like Ferg etc... So I can't say anything about lyrics. I'm also not a native English speaker, so, it's hard for to me, listen to lyrics "as is".

But i really like Rode NTR. Not condenser.. fewer reflections... good choice.
I'm not a native English speaker either. My first language is French but my wife and kids speak English.

He should get the Gap 800 clone or WA 8000 or AA cm800t, add a Chandler TG or Redd preamp, Get a nice compressor like the liminator and start recording. Any of those c800g clones are great.
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Hi Yves, Yes I've been participating on the Boards, a long time.
However my "level" of-ahem-expertise, is effectively on the Hobbyist-Pastime level.

IMHO one of the defining litmus tests, is how the true expert can judge how whatever microphone(s) will work well in the Mix.
(I can listen "Solo" and tell pretty well-a lower level)

But... I'm beginning to think (for a while), that a secret weapon for Hip Hop/Rap/Modern Genres is... (envelope please)

A 47/49 Style LDC! (gasp) What triggered that was listening back to some old Little Richard hits. His voice jumps OUT-of the speakers.
Then I re-listened to old Crooner songs ala Sinatra in front of a big Orchestra. Just check it out for yourself.

In fact a GS (and other forums) regular, even didn't want me to get this
out, on any of the Boards. And be one more "cog in the wheel" of further increasing the value of original U47 tube mics. Once some in the more Modern genres discover this.

Since he has accomplished getting an original U47 recently,
I feel I can open my big mouth.


I agree with the above post. Except I think the Warm's upper middle response, is a little less smooth than AA CM800T or the GAP version.

Also there's a strong rumor that Dave Thomas/AA is experimenting with his U47 style tube mic.
Via tweaking the Circuit. Partly to get a non-VF-14 tube, closer to the infamous $$ original VF-14.
Chris
Old 17th January 2022
  #80
Lives for gear
Great 47 tube mics are effective - no doubt about it!

Ray H.
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #81
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Within Heiserman IMHO, general inclination towards K47 style capsule over mellower M7 type (?).

Great you have both Ray!
Chris
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #82
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GeneHall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
IMHO Tonelux JC37 is also comparable and a lovely sounding mic too.

I agree that Soundelux/Soyuz/Josephson, David listed above are top notch choices.
(as if I know as much as he does! )

But I've tried.sang through all of these.

I think you ought to add a SM7 too (insert SM7 joke here ), along with your selected LDC,

You may also want to check out the lesser priced...
Soyuz Bomblet and Soundelux U195 (I have one).

Serrano 87/Beesneez 87, if you'd like the Vintage 87 style tone.
UT 47FET or Heiserman H47 FET.

Microtech Gefell's are also worthy of serious consideration.
Like a M930 or MT 71S (with their M7 capsule).
Chris
Agree with much.
The biggest factor in starting up, is attracting clients with equipment choices one doesn't have qualify or explain in detail.
A U87 and Sm7 fast track understanding and reduces the anxiety of having to over explain, they speak for themselves- by and large.

For the Sm7, a simple cost effective solution is the Soyuz Launcher or a choice few of the Tierra Audio Flavour boxes. The TA Vanilla and Cocoa sound really great and cover alot of bases. The Pepper is not without it's merits but I prefer their boxes with the Lundahl transformers, just a personal preference. Tierra Audio are far from a household name, but these tiny little line amps are and out of the way type tool, you can just let a client assume your'e brilliant and quick to get a solid sound.
For the LDC, personally I would want both a valve preamp and a sold state box, a UA 610 and an 8801 would cover alot of turf, but there are so many great boxes, these suggestions are also in the name of brand recognition and familiarity. It again, reduces the need or desire to explain away one's equipment choices
"Pro" is largely about being predictable, it's actually really important, folks don't want to guess about lesser name gear regardless of quality or brand preference. We can all wish it weren't so but it is.

Professional room treatment will make or break though, not only does it need to efficiently and effectively work, it also needs to look the kippers knickers.
The less qualifying and explaining one has to do about gear, the better. Give punters what they expect and grow into being able to offer them the extraordinary lesser known gems for options. ime



PS- Doubling down on the BD M88TG, sometimes a 400 dynamic is just the ticket, and it looks bad ass which helps!

Last edited by GeneHall; 19th January 2022 at 09:08 PM.. Reason: launcher edit typo
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #83
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Thanks Gene.
BTW did you mean to say the Soyuz Launcher?

"Bomblet". "Launcher". Easy to mix up names, kinda like having two twins, you need to verbally discipline!
Chris
P.S. Paul G (for singing) and MYN (for VO). have me convinced also about the Soyuz 017 FET.
Too bad that one is not more recognized too.
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Maniac
If this guy is still around... OP, why are you trying to invent a bicycle? If you have 10k, buy a vintage black u87, M5, and LA2A (not some WARM God forbid, just buy a Teletronix). You will be amazed.

Last edited by Yves Slaziett; 17th January 2022 at 05:51 AM.. Reason: Oops, accidentally quoted a post.
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Slaziett ➡️
If this guy is still around... OP, why are you trying to invent a bicycle? If you have 10k, buy a vintage black u87, M5, and LA2A (not some WARM God forbid, just buy a Teletronix). You will be amazed.
Also... I'd like to add strange advice. But OP, you can try Rode NTR. From everything, I've heard... It's just WOW! I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years it becomes another gold standard of the hip-hop industry and costs twice or x3 as much (due to manufacturing difficulties and increasing prices for components (but we know )).
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Thanks Gene.
BTW did you mean to say the Soyuz Launcher?

"Bomblet". "Launcher". Easy to mix up names, kinda like having two twins, you need to verbally discipline!
Chris
P.S. Paul G (for singing) and MYN (for VO). have me convinced also about the Soyuz 017 FET.
Too bad that one is not more recognized too.
LAUNCHER....Yes! my bad
Soyuz Launcher
Old 17th January 2022 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Hey, as a Pre-Teen, I accidently called Lee Marvin (when they were talking about the movie "Cat Ballou")...

"Wasn't Maverick Lee great"! My best friends teased me about it for years.

Hey, here's "Maverick Chessparov" on an $80 mic tonight, messing around at the office.
To top it off, going through a $130 Scarlett 3rd Gen Solo.
Another "one take"/off the cuff vocal thang.

Trust me, it's better than if it were on a Ref C!!
(I love the smooooth Silver though)
Chris
P.S. Didn't want to drag out my Real Traps Personal Vocal Booth from home, so was only 3" away from the mic.
Sibilance would have been better minimized at 6" Plus distance.
P120's 300 Hertz Low Cut filter switch was put on.
Attached Files

Song 15.hdrFinaMKIITamborineManP120AirSoloMS.aup3MKII.wavFinalFinal.wav (1.17 MB, 382 views)

Old 18th January 2022
  #88
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Future only records with a u87 > 1073 > cl1b chain so that might be the one for you
Old 18th January 2022 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
GeneHall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Hey, as a Pre-Teen, I accidently called Lee Marvin (when they were talking about the movie "Cat Ballou")...

"Wasn't Maverick Lee great"! My best friends teased me about it for years.

Hey, here's "Maverick Chessparov" on an $80 mic tonight, messing around at the office.
To top it off, going through a $130 Scarlett 3rd Gen Solo.
Another "one take"/off the cuff vocal thang.

Trust me, it's better than if it were on a Ref C!!
(I love the smooooth Silver though)
Chris
P.S. Didn't want to drag out my Real Traps Personal Vocal Booth from home, so was only 3" away from the mic.
Sibilance would have been better minimized at 6" Plus distance.
P120's 300 Hertz Low Cut filter switch was put on.
As luck would have it, I just this minute score yet another M69, this one is a TG and I could not be happier about it.
Under 100usd. :-)
Congratulations me yes yes
<takes a bow>
Old 18th January 2022 | Show parent
  #90
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
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