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Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 These Days?
Old 11th October 2020
  #91
Gear Nut
 
skekTek's Avatar
I love and use this maschine with all it's shortcomings but still recommend we should collect once again the main missing features and post them in the pioneer dj forum. It's been a year since the last update, maybe a refresher there is a good idea.
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I had an SP-16 for a month earlier this year, really liked it but it’s OS shortcomings were very annoying, sent it back.

Just bought another one today.

I’m not the first person to do this

If only Pioneer would just tidy up a couple of issues. Anyway, i’m not complaining anymore!

Looking forward to The Return...
Old 15th October 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Lives for gear
 
tengu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skekTek ➡️
I love and use this maschine with all it's shortcomings but still recommend we should collect once again the main missing features and post them in the pioneer dj forum. It's been a year since the last update, maybe a refresher there is a good idea.
Let's do it. Maybe we could make a list here. I've been away from it for a bit, but will start taking notes once I'm on it again.
Old 17th October 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Lives for gear
 
viewing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 ➡️
If you’re not open to a different way of doing things then it’s probably not the machine for you.
they could have purposed the 16 plastic buttons as track buttons. they could have put themselves in front of akai by letting these buttons be used in conjunction with the pads for same-time pad playing and track muting/selecting/copying/deleting

they could have not had a 4 bar limitation which makes using long samples difficult

they could have let us delete samples

they could have at least allowed recording of midi notes from an external device

they could have at least allowed layering/editing of sounds per pad


there are no workarounds for this new way of doing things when you add all of these things up and are especially vexing from those that have grown up with these features in one machine (well, the first one was only on the command stations, but ahead of it's time). this was supposed to be 'the one', now i have to get a pyramid and pair it with something, er, i dunno.....
Old 17th October 2020 | Show parent
  #95
mp3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by viewing ➡️
they could have purposed the 16 plastic buttons as track buttons. they could have put themselves in front of akai by letting these buttons be used in conjunction with the pads for same-time pad playing and track muting/selecting/copying/deleting

they could have not had a 4 bar limitation which makes using long samples difficult

they could have let us delete samples

they could have at least allowed recording of midi notes from an external device

they could have at least allowed layering/editing of sounds per pad


there are no workarounds for this new way of doing things when you add all of these things up and are especially vexing from those that have grown up with these features in one machine (well, the first one was only on the command stations, but ahead of it's time). this was supposed to be 'the one', now i have to get a pyramid and pair it with something, er, i dunno.....
These are all things you could have known before you bought it.
Old 17th October 2020 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by viewing ➡️
they could have purposed the 16 plastic buttons as track buttons. they could have put themselves in front of akai by letting these buttons be used in conjunction with the pads for same-time pad playing and track muting/selecting/copying/deleting

they could have not had a 4 bar limitation which makes using long samples difficult

they could have let us delete samples

they could have at least allowed recording of midi notes from an external device

they could have at least allowed layering/editing of sounds per pad


there are no workarounds for this new way of doing things when you add all of these things up and are especially vexing from those that have grown up with these features in one machine (well, the first one was only on the command stations, but ahead of it's time). this was supposed to be 'the one', now i have to get a pyramid and pair it with something, er, i dunno.....
i’ve only had my new one a day, really enjoying it again.

True that it’s simple compared to an Akai but i’ve not had to refer to the manual once yet, and I think that’s a big plus.

Re 4 bar - is it not a workaround to chain two or more patterns in arrange mode and play like that?

Layering - play two pads at once?

For me a big issue is mute behaviour, much prefer Akai’s method but nevermind.

It’s certainly limited in many respects but that does at least give it a genuine old school vibe where limitations were a bonus?!
Old 18th October 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The cold truth is its meant to be used as a DJ/producer tool with the DJ set up and with some tricks up its sleeve.So many limitations.Its does not really compete with the MPC ect rather more as an extra alternative choice.It could really use some more detailed options for opening up the sound engine.To make it more musicaL.I dont think Pioneer DJ are putting in much effort on this one which is a shame.Some great features there tho.
Old 18th October 2020 | Show parent
  #98
mp3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➡️
The cold truth is its meant to be used as a DJ/producer tool with the DJ set up and with some tricks up its sleeve.So many limitations.Its does not really compete with the MPC ect rather more as an extra alternative choice.It could really use some more detailed options for opening up the sound engine.To make it more musicaL.I dont think Pioneer DJ are putting in much effort on this one which is a shame.Some great features there tho.
Stated with positive spin, one could say the SP-16 is focused on a defined set of capabilities, doesn’t claim to be the end-all, and pioneer recognizes the fact that the vast majority of people have more than one piece of gear nowadays and not every instrument needs to be a feature-laden, do-it-all workstation. And instead of trying to produce a wunder machine, pioneer elected to choose a lane and stay in it.

As for post release support, my opinion is that when it comes to hardware, making future development a part of the sales package is risky for both the seller and the buyer. And that’s because there comes a point where unit sales cease to support firmware development; and so it’s not hard to end up with abandoned, unfinished, buggy products... Buy things for what they are, not what you hope (or the manufacturer hints) they will become.

Anyway, it’s interesting to see the contrast between how people regard the Pioneer boxes versus Elektron, especially given that they’re a much better comp than the current Akais and other classic sampling workstations like the MV8000 etc. Just seems to be a lot more acceptance of Elektron staying in their lane and not much for Pioneer essentially doing the same thing.
Old 18th October 2020 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Just found out by watching YouTube videos that the DJS-1000 has the mutes saved per pattern - which is what everyone is asking for the SP16.

Hope Pioneer can add this, it must be easy.

And I agree that Pioneer ‘staying in their lane’ is a benefit, but they could still brush up a few features purely with DJs in mind.
Old 12th November 2020 | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Still My Favorite

I still have the TORAIZ SP-16 and still use it as my main hardware. I absolutely love it. But as many people have said, it's not the end all be all of all production. For example, when I am working on tracks with large samples/loops, I generally use Ableton because it handles the samples better. However, nothing beats the SP-16 for drums, chopping etc. I generally start a track with the SP-16 and then will take it as far as I can in the SP and then move it to Ableton and finish it.

Before I bought it, I was doing everything with Ableton and a USB keyboard controller. The problem is that to me - using a DAW for drums etc is just not as creative as using the SP. I have made some amazing tracks on the SP I would have never made on Ableton just because of how it works. I am going to say it again that the sound engine of it is absolutely incredible.

I think the best use of the SP is to view it as your starting point or using it to create the main part of pieces of your track. It's not going to generally take the track all the way in some cases but that's why it's so creative. It's a trade off - you make it do everything and it takes away from the creative workflow.

After using it for a long time, I still love it. I keep it connected to Ableton and will work on the main tracks in the SP and then finish off the track/vocals in Ableton/ Ableton does some things really well the SP doesn't do well and vice versa. For example, I was trying to make a track with a really long sample for an artist he wanted and I just couldn't get the loop to work really well in the SP due to the length and complexity of the sample. So I brought it into Ableton and setup the sync points, etc. The drummer in this sample was way off on his timing so it really needed some work to keep on beat.

The SP would have never done a good job with this. I probably could have chopped it up and got it to sync but Ableton in this case just did a better job. The other thing I sometimes do is fix the loop/sample in Ableton and then load it back into the SP.

Regardless, I find the combo of Ableton and SP the best combination I have ever used. I am NEVER - N E V E R - selling the SP. It's like an Ensoniq ASR 10 to me and I know if I sell it, I will regret it forever.
Old 9th April 2021
  #101
Gear Addict
 
ok, ive only had this for a week, and 945 said, its not the end all be all for production.

BUT

the sound is f'in amazing. Its kinda like the difference between good vinyl on a good system and cdjs on a good system(was comparing to a tr-8s/tr-8). Both are good, and most wouldnt tell the difference but something about that overdrive in the filter section, just puts it slightly(maybe very for some, more for others) ahead in the sound department. Someone else said it should just be listed as a sampling drum machine, and thats what it should be called.

When it came to keeping the tr-8, tr-8s or sp16, im selling the tr-8s. the tr-8s is far deeper and sounds good but the 2 line lcd and menu diving wasn't fun to me. i know the gold baby 808 samples are old but they sound so good in the SP-16
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #102
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sound

I agree. The sound from this machine is amazing. I have never heard anything sound so good as the Pioneer SP-16. especially when you turn on low and high pass and enable drive.

I did find one issue with the unit where it does a terrible job of matching tempos/lengths of imported samples and Pioneer acknowledged the issue and told me they are working on a firmware update to fix it. That's my biggest complaint with it right now is it does a terrible job of figuring out tempos and lengths when you import samples. It's easy to fix but time consuming. So hopefully that's fixed soon.

I do all my production on the unit now because the sound quality I get from it. I think this is one of the most underrated samplers ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 ➡️
ok, ive only had this for a week, and 945 said, its not the end all be all for production.

BUT

the sound is f'in amazing. Its kinda like the difference between good vinyl on a good system and cdjs on a good system(was comparing to a tr-8s/tr-8). Both are good, and most wouldnt tell the difference but something about that overdrive in the filter section, just puts it slightly(maybe very for some, more for others) ahead in the sound department. Someone else said it should just be listed as a sampling drum machine, and thats what it should be called.

When it came to keeping the tr-8, tr-8s or sp16, im selling the tr-8s. the tr-8s is far deeper and sounds good but the 2 line lcd and menu diving wasn't fun to me. i know the gold baby 808 samples are old but they sound so good in the SP-16
Old 10th April 2021
  #103
Gear Addict
 
I havent got into full on sampling but i generally do that in the computer. The editor is confusing but i got a transfer of samples to sp16 so i guess i did something right. Sample editing is the one thing on a computer i don't mind because ill just sit around when I know im not really feeling creative, and ill spend 2-3 hours working on them and making kits so i can be ready to when i am. Took me along time to realize that if you do that off and on for year, by the end of the year, once you've figured everything out, you have days of kits.
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #104
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Workflow

Once you learn the SP-16 it's amazingly fast. I can actually work on it just as fast as on Ableton. The sample editing is super easy and the slicing is so simple. I find it more creative as well since the note repeat on it is so powerful.

It doesn't have all the features and MPC will have but I think that's what makes it so great. I just keep a USB cable connected to my PC and move samples between the computer and SP quickly. They also have a PC editor if you want to chop up and prepare the samples on the computer (I don't use).

I love the SP and can't see not having one now. I actually like it as much as my Ensoniq EPS 16+ which is saying alot since I think the Ensoniq is amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 ➡️
I havent got into full on sampling but i generally do that in the computer. The editor is confusing but i got a transfer of samples to sp16 so i guess i did something right. Sample editing is the one thing on a computer i don't mind because ill just sit around when I know im not really feeling creative, and ill spend 2-3 hours working on them and making kits so i can be ready to when i am. Took me along time to realize that if you do that off and on for year, by the end of the year, once you've figured everything out, you have days of kits.
Old 10th April 2021
  #105
Gear Addict
 
couple questions
if you leave the usb hooked up, where are you dragging and dropping too or are you loading them by sp. I was using the editor which is ok but i was looking to do what you were saying with the usb hooked up.

also the tracks make up scenes. then you have 16 tracks in one scene. What ive been trying to do is just copy lets say one scene to another with the same kit and sequence, but it seems like when i do that, it just loads a blank scene.

im sure this is easy and I generally just work with no manual for a few weeks then crack it when i have questions, but im getting confused, mainly just due to the names not being mpc track, sequence, songs, since i worked with them off and on since the 90s
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #106
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You just have to put the machine in the mode to communicate to the computer. I forget the exact option but it's in the settings. Just change the USB mode to computer and it will show up as a drive on your machine.

You should be able to either copy a pattern to a new pattern or copy a scene to a new scene with all the data. I use the arrangement options all the time. People who say the machine is limited haven't learned the arrangement options.

Make sure you have the machine updated to firmware version 1.60 (latest).

Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 ➡️
couple questions
if you leave the usb hooked up, where are you dragging and dropping too or are you loading them by sp. I was using the editor which is ok but i was looking to do what you were saying with the usb hooked up.

also the tracks make up scenes. then you have 16 tracks in one scene. What ive been trying to do is just copy lets say one scene to another with the same kit and sequence, but it seems like when i do that, it just loads a blank scene.

im sure this is easy and I generally just work with no manual for a few weeks then crack it when i have questions, but im getting confused, mainly just due to the names not being mpc track, sequence, songs, since i worked with them off and on since the 90s
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #107
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smccarthy945 ➡️
You just have to put the machine in the mode to communicate to the computer. I forget the exact option but it's in the settings. Just change the USB mode to computer and it will show up as a drive on your machine.

You should be able to either copy a pattern to a new pattern or copy a scene to a new scene with all the data. I use the arrangement options all the time. People who say the machine is limited haven't learned the arrangement options.

Make sure you have the machine updated to firmware version 1.60 (latest).
cool, ive been going thru the manual at night and im starting to get it figured out. Found mine at GC online open box and it came shipped with 1.60.

I like being able to poke around in the dark and just scroll menus, before i really deep dive into a machine.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I will take a little time to learn everything but the workflow is super easy to follow so once you put some time into it you will get it. I can pretty much make the machine do anything I want and have figured out ways around every supposed limitation. I run everything through the machine now just to get the sound out of it. The bass and drums you get out of this unit is absolutely crazy. The 808s hit harder than anything I have used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 ➡️
cool, ive been going thru the manual at night and im starting to get it figured out. Found mine at GC online open box and it came shipped with 1.60.

I like being able to poke around in the dark and just scroll menus, before i really deep dive into a machine.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #109
Here for the gear
 
These days and many more, One of my best purchases! I love how is so simple and easy to use. The sequence is very powerful- very easy to get complex patterns. Keep in mind i mainly use it as a drum machine and sound fx. I like it so much i might get rid of other drum machines i have. This unit is very flexible for getting your samples to sound exactly how you'd want. DSI filter is awesome. My only issue is the very bright lights, (i have them dimmed to the lowest setting.) I wish I could get custom mpc pads for it that are opaque and do not let an light through. Also , it has individual outs!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #110
Here for the gear
 
These days and many more , One of my best purchases. I love how is so simple and easy to use. The sequence is very powerful- very easy to get complex patterns. Keep in mind i mainly use it as a drum machine and sound fx. I like it so much i might get rid of other drum machines i have. This unit is very flexible for getting your samples to sound exactly how you'd want. DSI filter is awesome. My only issue is the very bright lights, (i have them dimmed to the lowest setting.) I wish I could get custom mpc pads for it that are opaque and do not let an light through. Also , it has individual outs!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #111
Gear Addict
 
if anyone has the little case for sale PM. i cant find one anywhere in the states.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #112
IOF
Gear Head
 
IOF's Avatar
 
SAP convinced me to get this thing. I've always struggled with drum machines and groove boxes so I'm hoping it's as intuitive as others feel that it is. It was one thing I heard about the Deluge but once I got it, it was already on OS 3.0 and was pretty feature rich - I've just found the screen is a real hinderance for me on that thing. It's a major downside to the device sadly. Anyway I'm looking forward to getting the SP16 later this next week. I think since these have come down in price they are much more competitive and it's easier to let the idea of certain features go.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
No More Updates

I just found out Pioneer has no plans to release anymore software updates for the unit so keep that in mind when buying. I just found out this week and it's extremely disappointing.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #114
IOF
Gear Head
 
IOF's Avatar
 
I was pretty sure that was the case and I'm aware of the complaints and limitations. I really don't need it for anything other than sounding good and being intuitive/inspiring to use. I have an MPC Live and Isla S2400 so it's not there to function like a full production unit would. I'm looking at it more like a drum machine with samples.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #115
Gear Nut
 
skekTek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IOF ➡️
I was pretty sure that was the case and I'm aware of the complaints and limitations. I really don't need it for anything other than sounding good and being intuitive/inspiring to use. I have an MPC Live and Isla S2400 so it's not there to function like a full production unit would. I'm looking at it more like a drum machine with samples.
That's where it shines, I use it the same way and love it for it's sonic capabilities.
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