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De-essing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 2nd February 2007
  #1
Gear Addict
 
LCD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
De-essing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it's one thing i CAN'T STAND... it's sibilance!! And out of every element in my mix game, I can't de-ess to save my life... any tips on how to kill sibilance??

Before you answer: I know that the recording process is the best way to avoid this problem, but if you could limit your responses to MIXING techniques, I'd appreciate it.


-LCD-
Old 2nd February 2007
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Use a de-esser? Sony has Smooth/Enhance plug I thought worked well, but you have to be careful, it can really kill the highs.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #3
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LCD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
fuuck
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #4
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Stitch333's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The ren deesser is used a lot in my werk
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #5
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con?one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i really like the waves ren de-esser
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #6
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Try multiband compression or dynamic eqing or a compressor with a really tight sidechain.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
download Spitfish. It's one of the best de-essers for vocals out there and it's free too.... can't go wrong.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
werd, I just re-discovered the digital phishphones stuff and "spitfish" is a great and free tool, along with "Blockfish" for a free compressor.

Also the ren de esser is great. It gets a lot of use in my mixes just make sure your rapper doesnt end up sounding like he/she has a lispheh
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
OneUp Ent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The Waves de-eeser is my favorite. Just sidechain a narrow band between 4-6k with a minus 30 on thresh seems to work every time for me. I also will eq post de-essing to get some air back with sibil still subdued.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
LCD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneUp Ent ➡️
The Waves de-eeser is my favorite. Just sidechain a narrow band between 4-6k with a minus 30 on thresh seems to work every time for me. I also will eq post de-essing to get some air back with sibil still subdued.
That the type of tip i'm looking for... good looks... hard to find stuff for this Intel Mac tho...
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #11
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t.dizzle's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I rarely use a de-esser on vox. Prolly because of the way I eq.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #12
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LCD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by t.dizzle ➡️
I rarely use a de-esser on vox. Prolly because of the way I eq.
Care to expand?
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Fluency's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
before anything, it depends on what kind of mic you're using & how u annunciate.... if you're using somethin like a rode nt1a or cheap condensers - sibilance is a bitch.... i know first hand. now i'm using an sm7b & the sibilance still exists a little, but is cut way down compared to the rode.

believe me, do yourself a favor & save up some money for a bundle of waves plugs...

i used to use "spitfish" & couldn't stand it... it took care of the "ess" sound but also made the vox sound dull as hell afterwards - i have a low voice so the last thing i needed was more bass. i bought the waves de-esser & now it's like night & day compared to "spitfish". the waves one cuts out the "ess" while still containing the brightness of the vocals. i just bought the "musicians II bundle" by waves too & all of those plugs are on a completely different level than the free ones i used to live & die w/... & i haven't even touched the "ren eq" that's been worshiped by every serious audio head i know.

go to waves.com & download a bundle or 2 (i think u can try them out free for 14 days), & when u get a few hundreds in your wallet, buy one.... just to warn, u have to buy something called an "ilok" too for $40 now when purchasing bundles from waves... i didn't know this & had to wait an extra 2 days to mess around w/ the plugs before mine shipped in... & on a sidenote, the tech support also sucks, but it's worth it.

& whoever mentioned the macs... definitely go the waves route - they support intel-based macs now... i used to mix w/ cubase but it's been buggy lately... now that i bought the waves plugs, i just mix everything in garageband & couldn't be more pleased.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #14
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Agzilla's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sometimes (even though it's a lot of work if there's lots...) automation works a treat for killing a big 'ESSSS'... at least in Logic for me...

Sometimes the plugs kill the clarity up top a bit, it just subtly feels unnatural with a de-esser..maybe i used it wrong..lol



Zz.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Poplab Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the lil´freq has the best deesser section i´ve ever heard!no plugin can do what the lil does. i bought mine only because of the deesser. (the eq is nice too;-))

best
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #16
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Ravian's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
ren de-esser. and automate the threshold.
i automate everything if it does the job
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #17
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camerondye's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I haven't tried the Ren, but lately I've been using the Precision Multiband on the UAD-1 card and it has a De-Ess preset that works great. I have a guy who "es's" pretty bad even with nice equipment and pop filter. The studio isn't the place to learn/teach good mic/singing technique either...always ruins the vibe. Also you can try recording bad "essers" with a good ribbon mic and then eq the highs back in with a good eq. Good mic/singing technique is the best.
Cameron
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #18
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Stitch333's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneUp Ent ➡️
The Waves de-eeser is my favorite. Just sidechain a narrow band between 4-6k with a minus 30 on thresh seems to work every time for me. I also will eq post de-essing to get some air back with sibil still subdued.
Most sibilence I werk out is from 8.5-11k...4-6k is the pressence of the vocal, 7k+ is the brightness of the vocal.
But post-es eq is a good trick. If you play with the balence between boosting the highs and essing the sibilence, you can get very present, crisp vocals.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #19
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azwun25's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownsound ➡️
Or...

Reduce them manually.
The offending S's are clearly visible in the waveform, so it's easy to just reduce them by a few dB.
i do this alot and is less destructive on the audio if you have the patience for it
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Nut
 
OneUp Ent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 ➡️
Most sibilence I werk out is from 8.5-11k...4-6k is the pressence of the vocal, 7k+ is the brightness of the vocal.
But post-es eq is a good trick. If you play with the balence between boosting the highs and essing the sibilence, you can get very present, crisp vocals.
I'm definately in that range with female vocals, but for most of the male vocalist I find myself in 4.5k-7 to be more exact. I usually solo the vocal and sweep in those areas till I find the sweet spot.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #21
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LCD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownsound ➡️
Or...

Reduce them manually.
The offending S's are clearly visible in the waveform, so it's easy to just reduce them by a few dB.
Edit a duplicate of the audio file or draw in automation dips if you're scared.
Or you could even cut them out and stick them on another track which is turned down and not being fed to the reverb, or turned up and only fed to the reverb!

The results are worth the effort, and in practise is doesn't take much longer than struggling with a de-esser that isn't quite working the way you want.
(unless your chorus goes "Cecilia Sells Sea Shells on the Shores of the Mississsipi"...)

Talking of which, remember Chris Eubank on Top of the Pops?
"Straight in at sixteen it's Suggs with Cecilia!"

(For those who don't know of Chris Eubank, he has a very pronounced lithp.)
This might be the way to go...... definitely gonna take a while but it's all worth it I guess.... I still want to learn how to effectively use a de-esser though
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #22
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azwun25's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD ➡️
This might be the way to go...... definitely gonna take a while but it's all worth it I guess.... I still want to learn how to effectively use a de-esser though

IMO you can't go wrong with manual lowering of the esses...plus it keep the audio natural. i do this while i manually line vocals up (no vocalign!) and once you're used to it..its second nature
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #23
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Stitch333's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneUp Ent ➡️
I'm definately in that range with female vocals, but for most of the male vocalist I find myself in 4.5k-7 to be more exact. I usually solo the vocal and sweep in those areas till I find the sweet spot.
As was probably mentioned before, the mic used and selective eqing while tracking will have a big effect on the pressence (or lack of) sibilence. Personally, Ive never used deessing below 7k for male or female vocs. Also, I agree its good to solo and work each track but in my experience working with the vocals, after each track is tweaked, monitoring the whole song is very important for a balenced mix. Vocals that sound good solo'd can easily fight for space in a mix once added with everything else.
Old 2nd February 2007 | Show parent
  #24
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s.d.finley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If your stacking vocals, find the most offending "esses" and reduce them, by volume automation, or EQ automation, rendering. Leave alittle bit, so the source still sounds natural.
Old 3rd February 2007 | Show parent
  #25
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownsound ➡️
...
Or you could even cut them out and stick them on another track which is turned down and not being fed to the reverb, or turned up and only fed to the reverb!
What I always do is to insert a de-esser on the bus *before* the reverb. That does the trick, as it affects the signal being fed into the reverb - not the actual voice signal or the return signal from the verb.

Manual volume automation of s'esses can certainly be necessary, and sometimes you need to add a de-esser like Waves Ren De-esser. Experiment with narrow band or wideband (which can work great in some contexts).

Or try sticking a very small piece of chewing gum behind the front teeth of the singer. It has to be very small and dry for a moment. The best and cheapest de-esser you can get, and no lisping side-effects.

Try it out using a finger if you don't believe me, but on the front of your teeth.
Old 3rd February 2007 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
 
OneUp Ent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 ➡️
As was probably mentioned before, the mic used and selective eqing while tracking will have a big effect on the pressence (or lack of) sibilence. Personally, Ive never used deessing below 7k for male or female vocs. Also, I agree its good to solo and work each track but in my experience working with the vocals, after each track is tweaked, monitoring the whole song is very important for a balenced mix. Vocals that sound good solo'd can easily fight for space in a mix once added with everything else.
The solo is strickly for finding the most sibilant freq. I put the track back in and ad or take away according to how it "sits". I use a Neuman u87 and m149 with an Avalon 737 mic pre. Sibilance is not too bad with those mics. But I have mixed stuff for others that is horribly sibilant.
Old 24th September 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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3rd&4thT's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluency ➡️
i used to use "spitfish" & couldn't stand it... it took care of the "ess" sound but also made the vox sound dull as hell afterwards - i have a low voice so the last thing i needed was more bass.
I had the same experience. The Tonmann DeEsser is just as free, and sounds cleaner to me.

GERSIC.COM free audio plugin database

Cheers,
3rd&4thT
Old 24th September 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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KRStudio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Copy and paste your vocal track. EQ out all the good stuff and leave just the offending frequencies. Invert phase and blend into original. You can also delete all but the "esses and do the same thing.
Old 24th September 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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clivek's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There's a really nice De-esser in Cubase 5 by spl. I dont no if spl do a separate native plugin ? Anyway i find it works really well !!!

It might be with cubase 4 aswell !!
Old 24th September 2009
  #30
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Rednose's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you have time and want to go nutz with it, copy all the "S-s" to another track and use a de-esser on that track.
That way it wont mess with the rest of the track.
Thats the best way to do it, but it takes time.
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