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My predictions on the future of recording!!
Old 6th December 2002
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
My predictions on the future of recording!!

Lets face it, Alishad HAS now (with HD) become the new microsoft of music. I'm not out to start another anlog/digital debate but do you guys ever wonder what the SSL's and Neve type companies are thinking at the moment.
When digi eventually releases the 'mother' of all controllers, sumthin that will compete size wise and 'wow' factor wise with the LF consoles, dont you think this will spell the end of these companies? I mean this argument about internal buss mixing is a load of crock, it was always a function of the operator and his/her skils.
The new breed of engineers coming up the ranks are pretty much children of the 'DAW' age.
Am I full of sh##t or does anyone else agree with me???

BTW I think outboard gear manufacturers will always prosper - at least in the mic/pre/conversion markets.

Old 6th December 2002
  #2
s2n
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
It has already begun...at least for film scoring:

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/feature/index.cfm
Old 6th December 2002
  #3
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
BTW I think outboard gear manufacturers will always prosper - at least in the mic/pre/conversion markets.
we haven't got the digital mike yet - but when we do ???rollz rollz

cheers
john
Old 6th December 2002
  #4
s2n
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Beyerdynamic's MCD line all have ADC's right after the diaphragm. :eek:
Old 6th December 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Solution D?
Old 6th December 2002
  #6
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
It's funny,

When I go into larger studios to track bands, bringing my own snazzy spec PT rig, I usually can operate with 1 x junior house engineer/assistant + my full time assistant Tom, (as I can do the duties of main pre amp twiddler/ ears). There are mic's to set up, cables to run and sound baffles to move but what do we always see? Two keen, young assistants, wanting to set up the PT rig! For them it's exciting... So I am with you there on the new generation coming through the ranks...

The migration to PTHD from Mix + might not be going as fast as Digi had hoped for. Someting has to pay for the R&D of the super controller you are guessing about.

I say that the future is NOT written in stone or here on Gearslutz.

Old 6th December 2002
  #7
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by John Sayers
we haven't got the digital mike yet - but when we do ???
It might change some things... it might not. I had a conversation with a dude the other day who was running P-T but wanted to add a bunch of anaolg filters to his rig... seems he didn't feel he could get the same tone with the software filters...

I think it will be an interesting set of circumstances... but I'm pretty sure [or at least damn hopeful] that the microphone, outboard mic-pre, compressor, EQ thing will not disappear for many, many moons to come [at least not until after I'm dead anyway].

My favorite fortune cookie says "may you live in interesting times"... if it's all the same to the rest of the world... I'd prefer it if the times weren't all that damn interesting....
Old 6th December 2002
  #8
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
but I'm pretty sure [or at least damn hopeful] that the microphone, outboard mic-pre, compressor, EQ thing will not disappear for many, many moons to come [at least not until after I'm dead anyway].
I agree with everything that has been said.
I'm sure people like Api, Manley, Soundelux and Cranesong have a future. I'm not that big on plug-ins, besides sometimes you just can't beat a great hunk of outboard for fun.............and looks.
See the 'Who is the biggest gearslut' thread.
I know a lot of people working from home with only the ocassional need of a Neve or SSL equipped studio.
Old 6th December 2002
  #9
SawSlut
 
OzNimbus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've mentioned this before (it actually wound up in EQ magazine, much to my surprise!)

As far as digital is concerned, I'd like to do away with the whole computer monitor/control surface/mouse setup. I'd like to see a system based in Virtual reality. Using goggles and datagloves. Essentialy, you'd be able to manipulate a virtual mixer in front of your eyes, with tactile feedback provided by the gloves. You'd also be able to switch between a mixer and an editor view... Allowing you to reach out and grab clips. Moving them, trimming the edges, adding non destructive fades & pans would be accomplished thru a system similar to Sonar's "Slip editing" but instead of using a mouse, you'd have real, tactile feedback.

Another added benefit of all this is the fact that you'd be able to do away with a desk completely and get an unobstructed line to your monitors. Just sit in your chair, throw on the goggles and go. No more refections off the desk to worry about.

Yeah, it might sound a little sci-fi, but it could happen.... people thought the Wright Brothers were nuts once too.


-0z-
Old 6th December 2002
  #10
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I'd like to do away with the whole computer monitor/control surface/mouse setup. I'd like to see a system based in Virtual reality. Using goggles and datagloves
Yes - I've pondered that idea also - your virtual control room could be wherever you wanted to be, 'Abbey Road studio A' or out in space floating - everyone would have to wear virtual glasses so everyone could take on a different identity (from a pull down menu) but most importantly all your gear could be floating around you and you select faders etc with the virtual hand(s).

Of course you'd need a separate puter just to run the visuals. :eek:

cheers
john
Old 6th December 2002
  #11
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
OzNimbus described, almost to a tee, something that has been in development for well over 5 years. Last I heard, it's inventor was shopping it around to Emagic and several other software companies. For whatever reason it doesn't seem to have gotten off the ground. It's possible that some company is perfecting it and waiting until the time is right to let it fly.

I know David Gibson, the inventor/designer of this program, and I've seen and used it. The idea is very cool, and it was nearly complete and workable 5 years ago. However, I think if it was going to happen, it would have by now.

Someone with a better business plan, more capital, and better marketing will probably steal Dave Gibson's idea and make a killing eventually.

THE VITRUAL MIXER

VIRTUAL MIXER flash demo
Old 6th December 2002
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I'd like to do away with the whole computer monitor/control surface/mouse setup. I'd like to see a system based in Virtual reality. Using goggles and datagloves
NO THANKS!

I agree that mouse mixing sucks, and I refuse to do it. But, goggles and datagloves? C'mon, that'd be way worse than mouse mixing.

I think it would have to be some grid network of X/Y/Z axis sensors and holographic representations of gear. This pre-occupation with creating CGI knobs/faders/etc. is totally ridiculous. It's time to break away from the analog paradigm IMHO.
Old 6th December 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
dylanr's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Smile

Wohoo.. i joined just so I could post in this thread. I'm suprised i was allowed to join because all I own is a couple of pres and a 3060.

While the idea of a visually oriented mixing/editing space seems neat in principle, but I find that the more time I spend looking at your mix can reduce the amount of time I actually spend really listening to it.

I'm probably one of the new wave (as mentioned above) that will probably never mix on a neve/ssl/analog whatever. Since day one I've been mixing exclusively within a DAW... other than mics/preamps it's 100% DAW these days (not really by choice, mostly dictated by the bank balance). I find the idea of a virtual mixer intriguing, but I'm really fustrated that the majority of digital technology is just trying to recreate what analog can already do, and in most cases better.

I'm just waiting for the day that plugin/daw manufacturers let go of the limitations of analog and we'll start to see the truly innovative stuff that will make analog a thing of the past. That's certainly a long way off.

And on the topic of fancy visual mixers...

I actually make a habit of turning the PC's monitor (the one you look at - not the ones you listen to) off as often as possible during a mix. It's interesting how different a mix sounds when you stop looking at the waveforms and faders. While all the visual stuff can give you a bit of extra information to use (especially while editing), we're ultimately creating an audio product, so our ears should be telling us if things are sounding good... not our eyes. I'm contantly trying to ignore what my eyes see and try and get my ears to take over. It's also funny how clients can't handle it - they freak out and get me to turn the monitor back on because they can't even listen to it without seeing the wave forms. Very funny.

That's a big flaw with DAW-only producers... at times we rely on the visuals as a crutch that our ears (if they are any good) should tell us.


Dylan
Old 7th December 2002
  #14
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I close my eyes - It's easier

cheers
john
Old 7th December 2002
  #15
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I go out to the desktop and switch my mind into observation mode. It took awhile to develop a different way of listening that doesn't involve listening for problems. I subconsciously go "what would I think of this song if I had never heard it before". When that charm wears off, I'm done mixing for at least that song or that day.
Old 7th December 2002
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
I know David Gibson, the inventor/designer of this program, and I've seen and used it. The idea is very cool, and it was nearly complete and workable 5 years ago. However, I think if it was going to happen, it would have by now.
Back when I worked for the Mother of Alsihad (1989****), I remember seeing David Gibson's proposal. If I recall correctly, he approached the Mother of Alsihad to ask if we'd be interested in making it real. Looking at the screenshots behind the links you posted, I can see that DG's ideas haven't changed much. Same floating colored spheres and eq triangle/trapezoids.

Last I heard, he had an (aging) Macromind Director demo that would allow you to push/stretch the spheres... which in turn would move the faders and pans on a MIDI controlled console. Did he actually create a working system?
Old 7th December 2002
  #17
Here for the gear
 
LuvToLaf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mmm??? This is what I have seen lately...A single person able to throw up a couple BK's, on a given type of performance, anywhere, anytime, record to ADAT or perhaps an HD recorder, shoot it to a DAW, do this and that, and spit out outstanding world class reproductions.

Yup, even with a tiny little Behringer for pre's, and to add some analog flavor on some tracks during mixing. Total investment, including monitor system, capture equipment, computer/boards/software.. maybe 30k. Of course there is some great talent behind this as well. Oh the BK's... well add 20k more.

Can there be enough money coming in to continue development, and will the new technology bring enough profit in the market? Think about what has come and passed in the last 10 years alone.

I see in the drugstore, hanging on the shelves, audio technology, that 15 years ago, would have greatly excited the pro-audio world in the endless possiblities of it's use, selling for 29.95. (With Coupon..please).

My child play's with electronic musical toy's that could have been used for the very groove of music in the past. (Gary, Stevie, and Gino would have used them).

I suspect, that the speculative recording/ equipment/software market will suffer, and very useful tools will sell like discount color tv's, however the quality of the people in the industry will be it's greatest asset.

Friday night OK?,



--LTL
Old 7th December 2002
  #18
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't think the console is going away any time soon. And the reason is TRACKING as opposed to mixing because I think the economic future is in PERFORMED music. Any idiot can put together a track in Acid so music that sounds like that is a generic commodity that nobody is going to be willing to pay for. We've come full circle with virtual reality music.
Old 7th December 2002
  #19
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Any idiot can put together a track in Acid so music that sounds like that is a generic commodity that nobody is going to be willing to pay for.
Let's see... the record companies are all bitching and moaning that they can't make any money due to "file sharing"... and any idiot can put this **** together... and let's face it, music has always been another consumer commodity [much like hot dogs... we like them, but in all honesty, we can pretty much live without them if necessary] except to those of us that make and distribute it...

At the same time the number of performance venues has plummeted (or worse, are owned by 'clear channel')... radio station programming is done in some mundane office building in Iowa... there are more and more clubs that play nothing but that **** that's created in Acid [for people on Exctasy]... I think we may be in "unfortunately hit the nail on the head" kinda territory here Bob...

They may be dancin' to a brand new beat... but it ain't summer and ain't nothin' happenin' on the street except driveby's.
Old 8th December 2002
  #20
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Music has only recently become a generic commodity. It wasn't high art but it also wasn't genre-flavored muzak. Anybody who ever saw a James Brown or a Jackie Wilson show KNOWS the possibilities.

And that's pronounced "CHEAP Channel" which is that company's name in the radio biz.
Old 8th December 2002
  #21
Here for the gear
 
LuvToLaf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Any idiot can put together a track in Acid so music that sounds like that is a generic commodity that nobody is going to be willing to pay for.
Sorry..I did not mean to imply that at all, though you are indeed correct. What I see is huge, quality performances being captured, and manipulated with the minimum of gear, and a ton of it being done via the internet too!

Like anything else,"Are ya gonna be there tomorrow?" that's the question, and that will determine the success story of studio business. You can have the talent (engineering), but if you are lousy with running a business and being responsible with money, or have mental baggage, or are too partial, unflexible, there is no future, period.

--LTL
Old 8th December 2002
  #22
Here for the gear
 
LuvToLaf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher

They may be dancin' to a brand new beat... but it ain't summer and ain't nothin' happenin' on the street except driveby's.
I think you are "cool as hell" Fletcher, and you too, Bob, EveAnna. You people are the one's that could turn this around. Redefine the standards, lay a heavy vibe on bad practice, and don't fear them. The money desperate CEO's (music, TV, radio) will destroy this industry, like George has destroyed this economy.

How do ya weed out the good from the bad? When (Clear Distortion) uses MP3's, and lowers the transmitter output at night to save money, did ya know that? There is MP3 from the sky now, guess what effect that's going to have on radio. The same thing is blowing away the cable TV industry. When you start to see stripmall shops ad's at primetime on network affiliate stations, that's a warning sign.

The glory day's are over, maybe now is the time to set up a "Greatest Hits Of" Series Like Kasey and Chuck. But, be sure to have them re-mastered, from the original tapes if possible, and a good engineer.

Saturday Night, OK?
--LTL
Old 8th December 2002
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Re: My predictions on the future of recording!!

Quote:
Originally posted by lnd
Lets face it, Alishad HAS now (with HD) become the new microsoft of music. I'm not out to start another anlog/digital debate but do you guys ever wonder what the SSL's and Neve type companies are thinking at the moment.
When digi eventually releases the 'mother' of all controllers, sumthin that will compete size wise and 'wow' factor wise with the LF consoles, dont you think this will spell the end of these companies? I mean this argument about internal buss mixing is a load of crock, it was always a function of the operator and his/her skils.
The new breed of engineers coming up the ranks are pretty much children of the 'DAW' age.
Am I full of sh##t or does anyone else agree with me???

BTW I think outboard gear manufacturers will always prosper - at least in the mic/pre/conversion markets.

Just my quid's worth.

I think it won't be too long before workstation type gear will replace big mixing console entirely, but the makers have to change their attitudes a bit to take on stuff the console guys have done for 20 years.
There are glaring problems with the mixers that are attached to todays editors which makes working them harder. An example is the absence of headroom in the PT sysem on it's TDM buss. As no one will record at realistic levels, even though they got 140dB dynamic range, every thing overloads at the meanest of processing and you waste all your time trying to fix overs. Not forgetting lack of auxes and signal paths in general.
The future has got to be to upgrade these systems with more processing, design the mixer section using real audio expertise. And for those guy's that want panels and faders, get one designed ergonomically by guy's that know how to do that stuff. Then you get all the advantage of HD editing and a mixer that doesn't hack you off.
Why don't the console manufacturers get into this stuff before they get shoved out anyway and give us the best of both worlds?
Old 8th December 2002
  #24
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
if we all stopped making recorded music for the next ten years noone would notice. There is enough unreleased backlog to keep going for many years to come.

cheers
John
Old 9th December 2002
  #25
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
All I'm gonna add is thatI would not be surprised if 80% or more of recordings being release in the last couple of years were tracked into pro tools - probably mixed through SSL at the final stage but I think those days are numbered too. Its just easier and quicker to mix on LF consoles but you can get as good if not better results mixing internally - people are just starting to acknowledge that now.Anyone interested in checking out my internal Mix (not HD) song and provide me some feedback?
Old 9th December 2002
  #26
SawSlut
 
OzNimbus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
[At the same time the number of performance venues has plummeted (or worse, are owned by 'clear channel')... radio station programming is done in some mundane office building in Iowa... [/B]

I wouldn't know anything about that, as I threw my radio in the closet 8 years ago and never looked back!

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