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mixing questions
Old 25th November 2002
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
dynamike's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
mixing questions

2 questions?

i often have instruments in songs that i duplicate every bar or every 4 bars. when i go to consolidate tracks at the end of a mix i sometimes get a click where the break was.

this even happens when i consolidate after punch-ins and such.

i love the neatness and organization of consolidating, but this is scaring me away.

Second,
when recording a band that wants to do, lets say- 3 to 6 songs
in one shot (in 1-3 days) and i think the band is going to be fairly steady in their sound (guitars/amps/etc.) i usually record all the songs in one session, and do the mix like that also. is this strange? or time-saving? as opposed to a new session for every song.
Old 25th November 2002
  #2
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Keep in mind I'm not a PT guy, I use Logic and it blows. But I do mix and transfer to PT sooooo....

Usually that happens if you don't match the levels at the edit points exactly. I try to do it on downbeats, between phrases or at zero crossings to keep nasty things like that to a minimum.

From a mixing perspective I think it's easier to have each song as a new session. It usually helps keep things like multiple takes easier to manage. File management is key.
Old 25th November 2002
  #3
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sounds like you're not editing on zero crossings or doing cross-fades between your regions. If you can't find a suitable zero crossing point for your loops, you can sort of create one by doing a very short fade-in (of only some samples) at the head of your sound clip/loop and a similar fade-out at the end and then consolidate this (I usually make it some logical musical duration like exactly 1 bar long or so...) so you now have your clip/loop with the ramping to and from zero built-in. This way you can paste/duplicate without having to worry about clicks.

This is essentially what happens when you play a loop or sample from an hardware sampler. It always put a ramp at the beginning and end of the sound even when the envelope attack and release time are set to their fastest values.
Old 25th November 2002
  #4
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davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Also try cross fading the parts together. You have to cross fade before consolidating or it does not cross fade for you.

Again look for the right points to edit with, thats one of the things I do not like about Beat detective, if the drummer is way out (and does not hit clean) sometimes you get the little foot of the kick or snare at the end of the last hit. So you get little clicks here and there.
Old 25th November 2002
  #5
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You have to go and manually extend to the left (earlier) the start boundary of each little region before you do all those zillions smoothing crossfades to make shure they happen in between the hits. A real pain...
Old 25th November 2002
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
What could be happening here is you have auto region fade activated in your preferences. This will do a quick fade(specified by the user) at the edge of every region in your session. My advice is to turn this off(0 ms), as I think it's a shoddy feature which only lets people get sloppy in their edits. Because once you consolidate there are no more region separations with smooth fades and you'll start to hear all the pops and clicks where the region separations once were. There's also a quickpunch auto fade that I also recommend turning off. Hope that helps.

Mike
Old 25th November 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Helminthes
What could be happening here is you have auto region fade activated in your preferences. This will do a quick fade(specified by the user) at the edge of every region in your session. My advice is to turn this off(0 ms), as I think it's a shoddy feature which only lets people get sloppy in their edits. Because once you consolidate there are no more region separations with smooth fades and you'll start to hear all the pops and clicks where the region separations once were. There's also a quickpunch auto fade that I also recommend turning off. Hope that helps.

Mike
Bump!

In ProTools, this is a huge problem that not many are aware of. I don't think it's a shoddy feature. They just need to incorporate these "virtual fades" in the cosolidation. I get LOTS of sessions with consolidated regions that go "click, click, click..."
Old 26th November 2002
  #8
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nuendo has a snap to zero crossing feature to stop this happening.

cheers
john
Old 26th November 2002
  #9
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
if you highligt the entire track ( all the 4 bar bits) pre consolidating, and hit the create fade command, it should put a crossfade at every cut? I usally make sure my loops in PT are actually longer regions than I am using ( if I need four bars, I make it a 6 bar and then cut it down so that PT has some data to do the fades) does that work in your application?
Old 26th November 2002
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
One thing I've noticed about the auto region fade is that it doesn't crossfade between regions that are touching. This causes a dip in the audio rather than a smooth transition. That's the main reason for my "shoddy" comment. It could be a good feature if only two major flaws were fixed up.

Try taking a single track of someone holding out a note with their voice and Command-E it somewhere in the middle with auto region fade on. Even a simple cut causes a dip in the audio. This tripped me up at work for about 6 months before I realized this feature existed. Pro Tools LE does not have auto region fade.

Mike
Old 26th November 2002
  #11
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
dynamike,

I agree w/ everyone else, crossfading before consolidating is def the answer.

Regarding the 3 songs in a single session. I don't do it that way. I've thought about it, but I always think that once I've added fader automation to the first song I will have to go through extra steps to automate the faders on the second + third song. How do you deal with that aspect of it?
Old 26th November 2002
  #12
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davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I do not mind having all the songs in the same session for tracking. I will do a few automation stuff on the fly.
It makes it easier for overdubs(not re-opening sessions all the time) and a lot of sessions I normally try to get a flat sound for the band then split them and tweak seperatly.
Mixing yeah split them up to seperate session files.
Old 27th November 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
dynamike's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
all this crossfading talk has my mind spliced.
i'll have to try a bunch of those things the week.
the initial reason for posting is because i didn't want to be forced to put a crossfade between every friggin cut in the audio.
in some of these songs that would be in the high hundreds of crossfades.
somebody said something about highlighting the entire track and doing an auto crossfade or something, i'll have to re-read that post and try it. that would be lovely.


as far as mixing, if all the songs are in the same session, once the drums alone are mixed, it saves tons of time by not having to do it all over for the next song. and it keeps things consistant.
i usually draw in automation rather than manually do it in touch mode-(etc.) anyway, so its not that big of a deal (i think).


i'm glad i found this website-i got pro-tools and had to teach myself, and i don't really know anyone else that has it to swap knowledge with. i'm still trying to figure out what the normal way of doing things is. i know MY way-but just reading these forums already showed me a few new tricks. thanks!!
Old 27th November 2002
  #14
Gear Head
 
kushan_ku's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Smith
if you highligt the entire track ( all the 4 bar bits) pre consolidating, and hit the create fade command, it should put a crossfade at every cut?
For me this is the fast way unless there is a problem segment that must be individually fixed by either cutting a bit off the end or adding some.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dynamike

Second, when recording a band that wants to do, lets say- 3 to 6 songs in one shot (in 1-3 days) and i think the band is going to be fairly steady in their sound (guitars/amps/etc.) i usually record all the songs in one session, and do the mix like that also. is this strange? or time-saving? as opposed to a new session for every song.
I think this depends on the band/song, but I also do this to save time. If I'm recording a group that is live-oriented and I want things to sound generally consistent throughout the album I'll record all their songs in a single session, get it sounding generally good across the board, no automation yet, with plugs, subs, etc all setup, the master fader set up the "Dye" method , then set markers at the beginning and end of each tune, and then cut them up and save them as individual songs. I only apply the automation to the individual songs. So kind of the best of both approaches. And yes I agree this method is a huge timesaver with this type artist.

If I'm doing more midi/sampled/looped projects, I'll usually do song by song unless the client is on a tighter timeframe/budget.
Old 27th November 2002
  #15
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🎧 15 years
Also I do a lot more automation lately in latch mode, so it resets to the old level afterwards. Then if you want to put the bass up in all songs, I use Trim. but yes automatoin can get messy, with fx's bypass, auxes on and off etc etc.
Old 27th November 2002
  #16
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dynamike
[B]all this crossfading talk has my mind spliced.
i'll have to try a bunch of those things the week.
the initial reason for posting is because i didn't want to be forced to put a crossfade between every friggin cut in the audio.
in some of these songs that would be in the high hundreds of crossfades.

*** Why do you have that many edits per track, per take? I'd push the players to make better initial takes then do bigger block edits. A whole verse or chorus or something. It'll also sound less mechanical and more like a real band and real music.


as far as mixing, if all the songs are in the same session, once the drums alone are mixed, it saves tons of time by not having to do it all over for the next song. and it keeps things consistant.
i usually draw in automation rather than manually do it in touch mode-(etc.) anyway, so its not that big of a deal (i think).

*** Personally I'm not a big-fan of cookie-cutter mixes. Though some things do stay the same from song to song most processing changes. Usually the drums are the easiest thing for me to get a balance on. It's all the other junk that takes up most of the time. YMMV
Old 2nd December 2002
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
dynamike's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Kahrs

*** Why do you have that many edits per track, per take?


i'm not talking about takes and things like that. i'm talking about looping parts. taking an 8 bar phrase or something, and duplicating it to be repeated for all or most of a song. i'm referring to noisy parts - guitars, bass, samples, etc. - the times where there is no good spot to make a cut.

does anyone know, how small you can set the crossfade(s) when you do an 'auto-crossfade-??? i haven't even tried it yet, i'm just wondering if anyone ever sets a crossfade length, then does it on an entire track.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #18
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I prefer 10ms for auto crossfades.

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