The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Headroom
Old 15th June 2020
  #1
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Protools headroom

Hello John Hanes,

Thank you again for extending this Q&A! It’s much appreciated.

Are you familiar to you use multiple master faders (masters for «final» aux busses) for an ultimate control over Protools headroom/gain stage? Or do you clip the files down prior mixing? Or doing both?

For me its seems that PT has a better sound when the last stages of summing stays in the green area.

I’ve seen a some top mixers doing this technique on Mix With the Masters.
By the way, are you planning to do a Mix With the Masters one day?

Thank you for reading this.

Best regards,

Nate
Old 17th June 2020
  #2
Here for the gear
 
Headroom

Hey John, I'm a big fan of yours

I would like to ask when you started working into your mix buss you lowering all the channels / do you have any specific volume for headroom that is important to start from when you load your mix buss preset?


Thank you for this I'm having a great time learning from you

David
Old 18th June 2020
  #3
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young.baws ➡️
Hello John Hanes,

Thank you again for extending this Q&A! It’s much appreciated.

Are you familiar to you use multiple master faders (masters for «final» aux busses) for an ultimate control over Protools headroom/gain stage? Or do you clip the files down prior mixing? Or doing both?

For me its seems that PT has a better sound when the last stages of summing stays in the green area.

I’ve seen a some top mixers doing this technique on Mix With the Masters.
By the way, are you planning to do a Mix With the Masters one day?

Thank you for reading this.

Best regards,

Nate
We don't use that multiple master faders technique here. I'm not sure what you mean by "clip files down prior to mixing". Generally we are adjusting volumes as we mix into the final Master Chain so that the effects of it are in control throughout the mixing process.

We're hard in the Yellow on the master meter at the end of the mix; but if your techniques are working, don't change.

Sorry, no plans for myself or Serban to do a MWTM.
2
Share
Old 18th June 2020 | Show parent
  #4
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidom ➡️
Hey John, I'm a big fan of yours

I would like to ask when you started working into your mix buss you lowering all the channels / do you have any specific volume for headroom that is important to start from when you load your mix buss preset?


Thank you for this I'm having a great time learning from you

David
Thanks,

no specific volume target to hit, really by feel at this point.
5
Share
Old 18th June 2020 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
Thanks,

no specific volume target to hit, really by feel at this point.
Thank you!

But if you're working into mix buss, you don't have any Rule / Which input volume sounds best?

Considering that you get lots of projects that you have to switch each time to your mix buss and start working into it

You're my best!!!
Old 18th June 2020 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
We don't use that multiple master faders technique here. I'm not sure what you mean by "clip files down prior to mixing". Generally we are adjusting volumes as we mix into the final Master Chain so that the effects of it are in control throughout the mixing process.

We're hard in the Yellow on the master meter at the end of the mix; but if your techniques are working, don't change.

Sorry, no plans for myself or Serban to do a MWTM.
Hello Sir,

I was talking about trimming down the waveform using the clip gain line feature so that the plugins would have more headroom to process the audio.

Thank you for your reply it means a lot!

Nate
Old 18th June 2020 | Show parent
  #7
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
We don't use that multiple master faders technique here. I'm not sure what you mean by "clip files down prior to mixing". Generally we are adjusting volumes as we mix into the final Master Chain so that the effects of it are in control throughout the mixing process.

We're hard in the Yellow on the master meter at the end of the mix; but if your techniques are working, don't change.

Sorry, no plans for myself or Serban to do a MWTM.
Thanks John,

What pro tools meters do you use for channel and master busses?
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #8
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidom ➡️
Thank you!

But if you're working into mix buss, you don't have any Rule / Which input volume sounds best?

Considering that you get lots of projects that you have to switch each time to your mix buss and start working into it

You're my best!!!
I guess is is one of those things that happens by feel at this point. As I begin working on the song, I'll be checking to see where it is hitting meters, how hard it is hitting the master fader, and adjust everything going to A 1-2 up or down overall as needed to get in the right ballpark.

Generally at the beginning of the mix process I'll want to be hitting my DK meter, NBC scale, at -10 to -8 because I know things will be getting turned up later in the process. Equivalent to -10 to -8 LUFS.

I'll also be listening for and checking to see if the compressors on the master are working too hard and adjust overall levels accordingly.
5
Share
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #9
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by matmainhard ➡️
Thanks John,

What pro tools meters do you use for channel and master busses?
When I mention the ProTools meters here, I'm talking about the built-in meters; K-14 mode
4
Share
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #10
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young.baws ➡️
Hello Sir,

I was talking about trimming down the waveform using the clip gain line feature so that the plugins would have more headroom to process the audio.

Thank you for your reply it means a lot!

Nate
Got it.

I don't clip gain DOWN, just turn down the fader. I do clip gain UP if the signal is so low that I can't even see a waveform.
5
Share
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
Got it.

I don't clip gain DOWN, just turn down the fader. I do clip gain UP if the signal is so low that I can't even see a waveform.
Hello,

Thanks a lot for your reply
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
I guess is is one of those things that happens by feel at this point. As I begin working on the song, I'll be checking to see where it is hitting meters, how hard it is hitting the master fader, and adjust everything going to A 1-2 up or down overall as needed to get in the right ballpark.

Generally at the beginning of the mix process I'll want to be hitting my DK meter, NBC scale, at -10 to -8 because I know things will be getting turned up later in the process. Equivalent to -10 to -8 LUFS.

I'll also be listening for and checking to see if the compressors on the master are working too hard and adjust overall levels accordingly.
Thank you!!
Old 19th June 2020 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
marchhare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes ➡️
Generally at the beginning of the mix process I'll want to be hitting my DK meter, NBC scale, at -10 to -8 because I know things will be getting turned up later in the process. Equivalent to -10 to -8 LUFS.
Hi John, first off, thank you for taking the time to do this!
Question, you say at the beginning of the mix process you're hitting
-10 to -8 LUFS, is the limiter engaged from the very start? You mention
in another thread that you only do about 3db of limiting, but aim for around
-6 LUFS. Is there something else in the chain getting you that much level
without clipping the mixbus before the limiter? Thanks!
Old 20th June 2020 | Show parent
  #14
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchhare ➡️
Hi John, first off, thank you for taking the time to do this!
Question, you say at the beginning of the mix process you're hitting
-10 to -8 LUFS, is the limiter engaged from the very start? You mention
in another thread that you only do about 3db of limiting, but aim for around
-6 LUFS. Is there something else in the chain getting you that much level
without clipping the mixbus before the limiter? Thanks!
There are other things going on. I’m not going to elucidate further.

This isn’t like when a surgeon comes up with a new surgical technique and trains and shares it with the world. A patient isn’t going to have two different surgeons try the surgery and see which one works better.

This is more like NASCAR where all drivers are competing and looking for that small edge.

If one driver let’s it be known that their tire compound is special, next race everyone will be using it. He’s lost the edge.

I know that there are other pros watching and reading what I’m laying out. We already get into situations where clients have two mixers competing on a song (unknown to both mixers).

Any edge that we choose to protect is not because I don’t want you to know; but I may not want them to know.
17
Share
Old 20th June 2020
  #15
Special Guest
 
TheHanes's Avatar
Just another thought.

When I said there are other things going on, I don't want so send you on a wild goose chase. I'm not talking about another secret compressor, a limiter I didn't mention before, a maximizer, anything else like that.

Going back to my analogies; the surgeon might invent a new tool do do his new technique. We're not doing that.

The Nascar driver has all of the same equipment that everyone else has, he's just looking for better ways to use it, getting a little boost is air here, a little less drag there. This is the world that we are in.
22
Share

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 55 views: 29705
Avatar for IM WHO YOU THINK
IM WHO YOU THINK 13th October 2020
replies: 1296 views: 176711
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016

Forum Jump
Forum Jump