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Autotune
Old 4th November 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
pan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Autotune

Hi Charles and the other Slutz!

You read the header, this one is about the plugin, that saved several asses sofar...be it "artists' " or producers'.

Charles do you use it, if you feel the need to use it, or do you leave vocals as they come to your house?
IMO, use of this plug can affect a recording in aspect of performance, that is crucial for the whole production and should not be used at the mixing stage.

Autotune changes timing and relative pitch of ALL other instruments of a track respective to the vocal.

So my question:
Do you think, Autotune is a mixing, or a production tool?
Is a mixing-engineer allowed to use it?

Niko
Old 5th November 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Unfortunately autotune has become a necessary production tool for me. Sigh .... sometimes wish it just didn't exist.

Well sometimes a cher mixing tool too I suppose.
Old 5th November 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm happy to report that I've just managed to do a whole pop record without using it! heh

The previous one was too long ago...

(Actually I did not even upgrade since getting HD in order to help not using it... )
Old 5th November 2002
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
The best thing about AT is that you can show your singer where the are going flat or sharp ...and then they can get it right without AT....hopefully.

Excellent vocal coach!!!
Old 5th November 2002
  #5
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Niko,

I wouldn't want to tune a vocal during a mix when I should be getting a vocal sound, but as an effect it has it's uses. I don't necessarily mean the incredibly overused "Cher" effect, but combined with other FX's it can be interesting.

Do I use it? Absolutely. As a recording engineer I've tuned a gazillion vocal tracks. If the singer needs it, the singer gets it. I've got no qualms about it.
Old 5th November 2002
  #6
Gear Head
 
dstagl's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I was very anti-Autotune for a long time, but since I learned how to use it in Graphical Mode I love it. It saves time and money. I think the key is really the Graphical Mode because you can get right in there and you don't have to perfect the notes, just tweak them 'til they sound in tune.

Dave
Old 6th November 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'll agree with that though!
Old 6th November 2002
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
To Charles and the group,

Hey gang,

Concerning Auto Tune, I have two questions to pose to Charles
and to everybody.

1. Do you ever use it just, in Automatic mode, or just Graphical mode, in which situations, and why?

2. Within the last week, Graphical mode won't let me hear any
audio back when I hit preview. It appears to play, the cursor moves, but I can't hear it. When I process it, it does work.
Any ideas why I wouldn't get audio back when hitting preview?

Thanks!

Pete
Old 6th November 2002
  #9
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Pete,

Thanks for coming by. About Auto-Tune:

"1. Do you ever use it just, in Automatic mode, or just Graphical mode, in which situations, and why?"

I like both modes. Automatic works well if the singer's pitch is close, but it just needs a little help here + there. Knowing the key to the song is absolutely critical though. Always find out what it is. It makes a huge difference in the end result. With it in Equal Tempered Chromatic during runs, fall offs, etc... when the vocalist is moving past notes that aren't in the scale, it can intermittently tune them to the wrong note. Automatic can also be faster.

Graphical gives you much more control, but can take longer, depending how fast you are with it. Like Dave said, you can fix just the notes you want, and you can still leave in all the character of the singer's inflections.

In my opinion, Auto-Tune DOES NOT suck.

"2. Graphical mode won't let me hear any audio back when I hit preview. It appears to play, the cursor moves, but I can't hear it.... Any ideas why I wouldn't get audio back when hitting preview?"

Sorry, I don't know the answer to this one. I'm guessing you are using the RTAS version, and I don't have any experience with it. Anyone else?
Old 6th November 2002
  #10
Gear Head
 
dstagl's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Pete Weaver
To Charles and the group,

2. Within the last week, Graphical mode won't let me hear any
audio back when I hit preview. It appears to play, the cursor moves, but I can't hear it. When I process it, it does work.
Any ideas why I wouldn't get audio back when hitting preview?

Pete
Sounds weird. Do you have any old Bombfactory plugs open? What are your track outputs set to?

Are you using the Audiosuite version--I assume so. Try using it as an insert. I love the fact that in 3.0 you get the Audiosuite version because it speeds things up for me working in graphical mode.

I put Autotune on the first insert and leave all my other plugs going. I highlight the section that needs fixing and load it into Autotune. After I get it tuned to my satisfaction, I copy the plug-in settings and paste them in the Audiosuite version. Process it, and then move on to the next section.

As far as auto vs. graphical mode, I don't use auto mode because it's harder to get rid of the autotune artifacts that led everybody to complain about autotune for so long. If I need something fast and don't have time to use graphical mode, I'll throw it on maybe a backing vocal because it won't be as noticeable if the artifacts kick in. I know some people throw it on doubled harmonies and pan them left and right and then detune each vocal a little different, but that's more of an effect--I personally haven't tried this.

I would always strive to painstakingly fix a lead vocal manually, and if it was too bad, I would try and recut it first but sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do....

Dave
Old 7th November 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Use it all the time......it´s a shame.....
Old 7th November 2002
  #12
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
1. To the person who says preview wont work Are you monitoring outputs 1 and 2? thats where preview occurs. I used to wonder the same thing but I used to use 7 and as my mains(I used the spdifs on 1 and 2 to feed my DSP 7000)

2. AUTO TUNE SAVES TIME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! When I tune a vocal to get me to like it it must take a ****ing decade I can spend a full day tuning a pretty decent vocal take to get no glitches. I wont except being able to hear auto tuneing on the vocal though. But it still needs to be in pitch. On everage it takes me 3 hours and I am a fast guin on Pro Tools.

I use Pitch Doctor as a tuner I have bands tune to my tuner then I watch pitch doctor and if I see even the least bit of tuning needed its time to punch.
Old 7th November 2002
  #13
Gear Head
 
dstagl's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Cannon Fo So

2. AUTO TUNE SAVES TIME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! When I tune a vocal to get me to like it it must take a ****ing decade I can spend a full day tuning a pretty decent vocal take to get no glitches. I wont except being able to hear auto tuneing on the vocal though. But it still needs to be in pitch. On everage it takes me 3 hours and I am a fast guin on Pro Tools.
Using the audiosuite version saves me time in lieu of the old bouncing the processed version to another track method. Autotune also saves me time when I fix a minor problem here and there in lieu of recording another take. I don't do fixes across an entire vocal, and I never try to make it perfect when I do fixes. I personally don't have the patience. But if someone wants to pay me to tune an entire focal for 3 hours or more getting every note dead on, it's not my style, but bring it on.

I guess I'm on the side of making it perfectly imperfect, but to each his own. I look at where the vocal is in graphical mode in relation to where it's supposed to be and I rough it to get it close to on pitch. When it sounds good, I move on. The guitars aren't in perfect tune so why does the vocal need to be. I approach drums the same way--the grid is a reference.

Luckily my bread and butter is corporate stuff so I'm selective when it comes to music stuff I do. If someone needs three hours worth of tuning help, odds are I'm not working with them to begin with. If I was doing work for labels, it would probably be a different story.

Dave
Old 11th November 2002
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
How about Auto Tune verses Pitch Doctor?
Old 12th November 2002
  #15
Lives for gear
 
pan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
How about Auto Tune versus Pitch Doctor?
When I last used PD in TDM-land back in the days of DAE 4.x, it suffered from horrible latency, never touched it again. Not to say, that AT had no latency, but its more manageable in the way I use this ¿godsent? tuning device: 95 % in auto-mode.
PD has no grafic-mode, but seemed to have MIDI-functions, as I remember.
Soundwise it seemed comparable with AT, slightly less audible vocoding and less coloration than the "original" pitch-teacher.

...recording break...

¿pitch-teacher? ...sorry, guys, some of you really show singers the deviation-curve of the plugin to improve their pitch? I know of no other word or plugin interface that has such a drastic effect to a singer as IT.
Never tell an untalented singer about IT before starting a session. - IT kills performance. Best help for the artist is a short break for a tea, playing him a correctly tuned take or phrase without mentioning IT or fiddling with the plug: "...hey, (**while I was at !IT!,**<-**leave this OUT!) I found a take, where you have really nailed this section/word/syllable! Have a listen to it ;-)"
Most times it works, playing a singer an auto-"pre"tuned version to doubletrack on that "Great take!".

-> Always have a track with Autotune on the same output/level to the monitor at hand...you've been warned!
So for the tonally totally tone deaf:

...back to fixing...

Autotune has plenty of different scales to choose from, what helps to find the right finetune in auto-mode. Don't know nothing about PDs scales, sorry...

Niko
Old 12th November 2002
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. J
How about Auto Tune verses Pitch Doctor?
i still prefer PD to AT, 'cause i prefer breakpoint automation (which can be done very quickly, is far more flexible and ultimately accurate in terms of tracking, um, rather bizarre pitch anomolies, and ((not that it's probably that valid, but)) no tracking variations to worry about ) to tweaking and trusting 'auto' settings. that being said, i haven't messed with AT's graphical mode yet, but nothing about its sound, when used for correction as opposed to effect, has made me want to. PD in formant preserving mode can make pretty drastic corrections, and i always crank the latency manually to 200ms to insure no quality prob's (keeping the little light at the bottom green) and bump the track back (after creating a duplicate, of course ).

i think i'm probably just arrogant enough to think that i can do it better than some automatic thingy

to say nothing about the fact that not everything should be fixed!
Old 12th November 2002
  #17
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Me I will take the TC Intonator over Antares any day...love love love it!

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