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VOS/TDR SlickEQ Gentleman's Edition
Old 28th March 2021 | Show parent
  #511
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yes please, 4th band option in Slick EQ GE. Has it ever been reviled how come, it seems like a strategy not to? I mean, we have been asking this for years... Love your products, so intuitive!
Old 28th March 2021
  #512
Lives for gear
 
galaydees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Japanese mode muddles the stated concept for me. Seeing such tight q values leads one to believe this could be a surgical eq and so yes, an additional band would be helpful.
Old 28th March 2021 | Show parent
  #513
Gear Addict
 
ChrisNunchuck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR ➡️
Interesting request. We could unlock such a feature once we find a legit Molot GE nearby! And also similarly with with all other freeware plugins.
I also use TDR Nova free version even though I own the GE version. The reason is I can use the free version with a jbridge wrapper to pull the cpu usage off of Cubase. I do this on another TDR plug as well. Interestingly, the free versions work with the wrapper but not the GE versions I purchased.
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #514
Lives for gear
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisNunchuck ➡️
I also use TDR Nova free version even though I own the GE version. The reason is I can use the free version with a jbridge wrapper to pull the cpu usage off of Cubase. I do this on another TDR plug as well. Interestingly, the free versions work with the wrapper but not the GE versions I purchased.
Interesting. We'll try to reproduce this.
Old 29th March 2021
  #515
Lives for gear
 
zvukofor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Noo! Please no 4th band on Slick!

Yet, i insist on a new EQ! A mix between Nova and Slick: knobs only, 4 bands, more resonance on filters, 3-way switch Q adjustment, same modes as Slick, nonlinear model from Molot GE.
Not slick, more rough. SSL 242-style in utilitarian mean. That’s what guys need in a palette. )
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #516
Lives for gear
 
Bouroki's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zvukofor ➡️
Noo! Please no 4th band on Slick!

Yet, i insist on a new EQ! A mix between Nova and Slick: knobs only, 4 bands, more resonance on filters, 3-way switch Q adjustment, same modes as Slick, nonlinear model from Molot GE.
Not slick, more rough. SSL 242-style in utilitarian mean. That’s what guys need in a palette. )
Plus per-band mode selection!
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #517
Gear Head
 
Just wanted to add my +1 to the long list of people requesting a 4th band with the same functionality as the mid-band for the GE version. There are many cases where SlickEQ falls just one band short for the whole EQ duties on one track and I find myself adding a Pro-Q for taming a single resonance on the hi-mids, for example. Sometimes I also wish I had two bands with a tight-Q option even if 3 bands total would be enough.

SlickEQ is great in its current state for sculpting the sound, but a fourth band would enable one to do the final finishing touch within one instance. I think most tracks require only this type of ”sculpting + finish” -workflow. Of course there is a time and a place for the full-blown surgical stuff with the Nova or other EQs but I expect that I’d be perfectly happy with one instance of a 4-band SlickEQ for 80% of the time.

Speaking of surgical EQing, and I’m veering slightly OT here, but I’ve noticed that it’s slightly harder to kill resonances with the Nova GE than with the tight-Q -band from SlickEQ or Pro-Q. It’s almost like Nova never kills the offending frequencies but ”pushes them into the background” and heavier cutting is needed. Might this be because of the parallel nature of that EQ? I like the Nova more than Pro-Q for dynamic EQ:ing (Nova offers much more control and more natural sounding result) but for static EQ:ing it just behaves differently than I expect it to.
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #518
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I like SlickEq for its simplicity and its sound, but it's true that very often I miss a 4th band (and in particular at least another band with a narrow Q option).

At the beginning, SlickEq was a simple EQ with different flavours (at least for me : I was using the free version), but it became rapidly a very complex beast with the smart ops and the infinity of interactions between the 3 bands, the tilt filter and the pass filters.
So in my opinion the argument of simplicity is no longer valid : when you want to achieve certain goals, it's already a very complex plugin (smart ops demonstrate that : the interaction between bands can create truly crazy curves).

Mixing a drum bus for exemple, I very often miss the (paradoxal) simplicity of using a 4th band. Without it, I very often tweak to death the tilt filter in interaction with the 3 main bands, so I find a working curve for my track, but it's truly a hassle...
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #519
Gear Nut
 
I get on well with this eq as it is. The key is the tilt filter, it's like having two shelves, and then three additional bells. In fact, if I have to ask for something, it would be having the option of a narrow q in the three bells. And also a 6db/oct high pass filter. With a fourth bell, it would be a killer thing, though.
Old 30th March 2021 | Show parent
  #520
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcamp ➡️
I get on well with this eq as it is. The key is the tilt filter, it's like having two shelves, and then three additional bells. In fact, if I have to ask for something, it would be having the option of a narrow q in the three bells. And also a 6db/oct high pass filter. With a fourth bell, it would be a killer thing, though.
Yes, having a tight-Q option for all three bells would also be a good solution as the tilt EQ would still available for similar duties than the shelf. Anyway, I'm sure fitting the extra band in the UI is a bit of a pain to implement since the plugin currently is such a tight and functional package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan ➡️
At the beginning, SlickEq was a simple EQ with different flavours (at least for me : I was using the free version), but it became rapidly a very complex beast with the smart ops and the infinity of interactions between the 3 bands, the tilt filter and the pass filters.
So in my opinion the argument of simplicity is no longer valid : when you want to achieve certain goals, it's already a very complex plugin (smart ops demonstrate that : the interaction between bands can create truly crazy curves).
Agreed. Now that we have the SmartOps and even the customized EQ modeling, the concept has changed. The extra band would also open up possibilites for creating more accurate models of 4-band EQs!
Old 31st March 2021
  #521
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Am now a proud owner of all the TDR EQ's, it's pretty exciting.

I'll add to the chorus: a fourth band would take this to the next level. Call it the Slick GE-B or something, ha!

Four band EQ is my main workflow for channels. 3 bands are OK for some tasks but not all. Just how I like to work.
Old 31st March 2021
  #522
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah as much as I love this EQ, I do find myself needing an extra band a lot of the time
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #523
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Am now a proud owner of all the TDR EQ's, it's pretty exciting.

I'll add to the chorus: a fourth band would take this to the next level. Call it the Slick GE-B or something, ha!

Four band EQ is my main workflow for channels. 3 bands are OK for some tasks but not all. Just how I like to work.
That's my thoughts exactly... Thanks.
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #524
GBP
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Am now a proud owner of all the TDR EQ's, it's pretty exciting.

I'll add to the chorus: a fourth band would take this to the next level. Call it the Slick GE-B or something, ha!

Four band EQ is my main workflow for channels. 3 bands are OK for some tasks but not all. Just how I like to work.
How are you getting on with toneboosters eq 4? How is it comparing to tdr nova ge? I am looking at slick following your recommendation amongst others.
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #525
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBP ➡️
How are you getting on with toneboosters eq 4? How is it comparing to tdr nova ge? I am looking at slick following your recommendation amongst others.
EDIT: just noticed you were asking about Slick and Nova, I spoke briefly about both in this post:

I've only had Slick GE for a few days so it's too early for a rigorous comparison.

But I've been using Toneboosters for over a month now, mixing, mastering. It can do just about anything. Saturation, mid side, dynamic EQ, as many bands as you would want, low CPU hit. I think it's wonderful.

Toneboosters has a tiny bit of, I don't know, "analog tone" to it so it's not going to be quite as clinical as some of the other EQ's, but I like that. The bottom can get very large and the top can have a tiny bit of sheen to it. For the kind of music I make it can sound pretty huge. If I need something even cleaner there's I don't know, the Massenburg or things like that. This is pretty subtle stuff you'll have to hear yourself.

I've also been using the Weiss MP a lot lately. It has a smooth, rich sounding midrange with a lot of detail, very flattering on a lot of instruments. Never gets harsh or boomy, always sounds refined.

The Slick GE is tough for me to characterize, but it has the TDR sound, very clean, precise, ever so slightly bold, but you can get it pretty dirty with the saturation modes which is great. I'm listening back to my three TDR mixes and I'm pleasantly satisfied with all of them. I'll have to write again later when I've been using them longer. They seem to have a nice little bit of sparkle to them.

The broad curves on Slick GE remind me of some of my hardware EQ's like the Calrecs. They look a bit similar when you plot the curves. Broad sweet tone shaping seems to be the thing. For something more surgical like the Toneboosters, the thing from TDR to reach for would be Nova GE. They're a good team. Slick GE looks like a digital parametric but it seems to have more similarities in function to the old hardware 3 band EQs, think of it as an alternative to a Neve or API EQ perhaps, although yes it's a different thing. Mainly due to the shape of the EQ curves. Don't get too hung up on the GUI.

Nova uses slightly more CPU than Toneboosters, that's one of the main differences in use. They both are "very good" sounding EQ's however. I haven't rigorously compared the dynamic sections, that would be the thing I guess. But I have used both successfully. They can both saturate a little bit, using Precise+ or Insane+ mode on Nova GE for example, or the per band drive in Toneboosters EQ4. You could do similar things with both. I can't make a grand judgment on sound quality because I haven't done a direct shootout of those two together.

Due to the very low CPU footprint Toneboosters EQ4 is one of those "use it on every channel in a mix" utility things, that and the fact that it can accomplish so many tasks, makes it a first reach for me.

But I am very excited about the Tokyo Dawn EQ's right now, they feel sort of luxurious and powerful to me for some reason, just a good vibe when using them, and I respect the company a lot also.

The last tidbit I will say is a I prefer the GE versions vastly over all the free versions, so they are worth the minimal expense to me. They feel like serious tools.
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #526
GBP
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yes I think the GE versions are certainly a big step up over the free ones and certainly worth the extra.
Thanks for your insights.
Old 2nd April 2021 | Show parent
  #527
Gear Addict
 
jpanderson80's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
@ monkeyxx ... in case you haven't seen this:

https://docs.tokyodawn.net/slickeq-custom-models-guide/
Old 3rd April 2021 | Show parent
  #528
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80 ➡️
thanks, I added those and the ones from earlier in this thread, but I haven't tested them yet.

I've gravitated toward the Soviet mode and sometimes the Japanese most of all in my early usage.
Old 3rd April 2021 | Show parent
  #529
Lives for gear
 
galaydees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80 ➡️
Pretty much the first line in that documentation, to the effect: if you need a 4th band - use nova
Old 4th April 2021 | Show parent
  #530
Gear Nut
 
vsignet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaydees ➡️
Pretty much the first line in that documentation, to the effect: if you need a 4th band - use nova
Nova has massive latency (for good reasons, given its purpose and feature set), lots of features that are usually not needed for channel EQing, high cpu (again understandable given its power) and not so smooth workflow when the curve display is off (having to click once every time you want to change band).

Slick EQ M in Live mode is the closest i get to "Slick EQ with additional band".
But i would still like a 4 band TDR Channel EQ.
Old 4th April 2021 | Show parent
  #531
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yeah, NOVA also doesn’t have the output non-linearity choices nor the EQ band Saturation or ability to have dual-mono curves - Nova GE is awesome but it’s not a swap out for Slick GE at all IMO
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #532
Gear Addict
Hi everyone!

Has it been said what happens under the hood when you switch between quality modes?
Does it involve OS? And if so to what extent - is it similar to TDR comps that use OS only in sidechain?
Is there any difference in the calculations of the filters?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #533
Lives for gear
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuulart ➡️
Hi everyone!

Has it been said what happens under the hood when you switch between quality modes?
Does it involve OS? And if so to what extent - is it similar to TDR comps that use OS only in sidechain?
Is there any difference in the calculations of the filters?
As with all our products, quality modes define the intensity of antialiasing.

The rule of thumb is:

ECO: nonlinearities operate at least at twice the audible bandwidth.

PPRECISE: nonlinearities operate at least at four times the audible bandwidth.

INSANE: nonlinearities operate at least at 8 times the audible bandwidth.


How exactly this is done differs per product, and some go beyond that (e.g. Kotelnikov, or Lim6's clipper double these numbers). Certain parts of the algorithm are more oversampled than others, with the goal to antialias the offered function without imposing any drawbacks (beside CPU load and latency of course).

Control signals are resampled differently than audio signals, and of course use specialized filters for it. All dynamics processors audio operations happen at least at twice the audible bandwidth, but they rarely get there by naive I/O resampling (exceptions are brick-wall limiting/clipping, and if I remember correctly, Molot's saturation).
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #534
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR ➡️
As with all our products, quality modes define the intensity of antialiasing.

The rule of thumb is:

ECO: nonlinearities operate at least at twice the audible bandwidth.

PPRECISE: nonlinearities operate at least at four times the audible bandwidth.

INSANE: nonlinearities operate at least at 8 times the audible bandwidth.


How exactly this is done differs per product, and some go beyond that (e.g. Kotelnikov, or Lim6's clipper double these numbers). Certain parts of the algorithm are more oversampled than others, with the goal to antialias the offered function without imposing any drawbacks (beside CPU load and latency of course).

Control signals are resampled differently than audio signals, and of course use specialized filters for it. All dynamics processors audio operations happen at least at twice the audible bandwidth, but they rarely get there by naive I/O resampling (exceptions are brick-wall limiting/clipping, and if I remember correctly, Molot's saturation).
Hi Fabien,

Thank you for your time to explain these things to me. But I do have some follow up questions more specific to Slick EQ GE quality modes.

When there are no saturation enabled - linear output and no eq saturation enabled - what is the difference between modes?

I tried to null them and surprisingly to me they did not null themselves on a 96k project. I expected there to be no difference when using only the EQ portion. In my tests the most similar quality modes were Live (Zero Latency) version with the Full version. (I am basing my assumption on the residue noise level left from the null test) Interestingly the Eco mode was producing the loudest residue. It seemed that there is some sample offset which is not correctly accounted for in my DAW (REAPER).

So can you share some technical knowledge why this could be happening? Offcourse if those are secret then by all means you can just say that as well.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #535
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuulart ➡️
Hi Fabien,

Thank you for your time to explain these things to me. But I do have some follow up questions more specific to Slick EQ GE quality modes.

When there are no saturation enabled - linear output and no eq saturation enabled - what is the difference between modes?

I tried to null them and surprisingly to me they did not null themselves on a 96k project. I expected there to be no difference when using only the EQ portion. In my tests the most similar quality modes were Live (Zero Latency) version with the Full version. (I am basing my assumption on the residue noise level left from the null test) Interestingly the Eco mode was producing the loudest residue. It seemed that there is some sample offset which is not correctly accounted for in my DAW (REAPER).

So can you share some technical knowledge why this could be happening? Offcourse if those are secret then by all means you can just say that as well.
If I might piggy back on this request for clarification (I too am interested) why does Slick EQ GE have ECO, LIVE and FULL whereas all the other plugins use the terms ECO, PRECISE and INSANE (why don’t they agree?) and is Slick EQ GE’s FULL mode = to an “INSANE” mode? Just curious.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #536
Lives for gear
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack ➡️
If I might piggy back on this request for clarification (I too am interested) why does Slick EQ GE have ECO, LIVE and FULL whereas all the other plugins use the terms ECO, PRECISE and INSANE (why don’t they agree?) and is Slick EQ GE’s FULL mode = to an “INSANE” mode? Just curious.
Oh that's an old typo. FULL means PRECISE, we finally have to fix this lol.
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