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Launch of Pono
Old 30th April 2014
  #4381
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Chrisso, evidently there is something I said that has triggered you... maybe "rock stars" as a term, I don't know. I have no idea where all your projections are coming from, and I'm not in a position to help you unravel it.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4382
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills ➡️
Goggle adjusts its results (and adverts) according to what it remembers you have searched for recently. I tried a search for "pono" and that was all that I got. YMMV.
Wow... holy crap you are right!! I expected to get a lot of porno results but... just pono!
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4383
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills ➡️
Goggle adjusts its results (and adverts) according to what it remembers you have searched for recently. I tried a search for "pono" and that was all that I got. YMMV.
LOL Best laugh all night!
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4384
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills ➡️
Goggle adjusts its results (and adverts) according to what it remembers you have searched for recently. I tried a search for "pono" and that was all that I got. YMMV.
well I never search for porn

and if I did, I would not use the term "porn" or "porno" - not specific enough heh

I searched for: "crowdsourcing pono competitor" because I was looking for a story about the Geek Wave and I forgot the name of the product but I knew it was crowdsourced

Number one hit top of the page was an article about crowdsourcing for PORN movies. Neil Young was #2. But no request for disambiguation.

Try it.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4385
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Pono gets my vote simply because it will change the way how music will be produced in the future.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4386
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
well I never search for porn

and if I did, I would not use the term "porn" or "porno" - not specific enough heh
Oh Joe, that's the funniest post of the thread.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4387
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogosort ➡️
Out of curiosity I created a 4-sample moving average filter. I downloaded a well-recorded 96 kHz file (my converter doesn't do 192), made a 44.1 version of it, and then played each through the filter. At 44.1 kHz, the MA filter is totally unusable (sounds like heavy drapes over the speakers); at 96 kHz it is much more subtle, but still audible -- less bright. Extrapolating to 192 kHz, it probably sounds fine, better than I thought it would (though this is just a guess). It's also important to point out that I'm using this filter before my DAC's own reconstruction filter, so it's not a perfect listening test.

It makes me curious, though, what filters they're using for 44.1 and 96 playback. I don't think they're using a "smaller boxcar" for lower sample rates: a 1-sample MA has too wide of a passband, and a 2-sample MA is audible at 44.1. So they're probably using entirely different filter designs for "underwater" sample rates. If we finally get to hear Pono and its playback sounds different at different rates, this could well be the reason.
Sorry if this question is wrong, but don't most modern DACs convert 44.1 to 176 or higher before filtering? Or would the MA filter still affect the 44.1 in a "covered sounding" way, even after upsampling.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4388
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills ➡️
Goggle adjusts its results (and adverts) according to what it remembers you have searched for recently. I tried a search for "pono" and that was all that I got. YMMV.
I searched for 'sample rate pono' and didn't get ANY pornography in the results.

Dammit, talk about a misspent life. They should throw in a little porn just so I can save face
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4389
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogosort ➡️
Out of curiosity I created a 4-sample moving average filter. I downloaded a well-recorded 96 kHz file (my converter doesn't do 192), made a 44.1 version of it, and then played each through the filter. At 44.1 kHz, the MA filter is totally unusable (sounds like heavy drapes over the speakers); at 96 kHz it is much more subtle, but still audible -- less bright. Extrapolating to 192 kHz, it probably sounds fine, better than I thought it would (though this is just a guess). It's also important to point out that I'm using this filter before my DAC's own reconstruction filter, so it's not a perfect listening test.

It makes me curious, though, what filters they're using for 44.1 and 96 playback. I don't think they're using a "smaller boxcar" for lower sample rates: a 1-sample MA has too wide of a passband, and a 2-sample MA is audible at 44.1. So they're probably using entirely different filter designs for "underwater" sample rates. If we finally get to hear Pono and its playback sounds different at different rates, this could well be the reason.
If I remember the Ayre stuff correctly, you'd need to be using a 4 (or possibly 3) sample moving average on 192K, and a 2-sample moving average on 96K. There is no such filter for 44.1K or 48K and they're probably using standard digital audio technique for that, unless they're upsampling.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4390
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi ➡️
Pono gets my vote simply because it will change the way how music will be produced in the future.


Actually I wouldn't go that far. But it could could get people to talk about their annoyance with how loud the mastering has become and how it is hurting the listening experience.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4391
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bogosort's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by walter88 ➡️
Sorry if this question is wrong, but don't most modern DACs convert 44.1 to 176 or higher before filtering? Or would the MA filter still affect the 44.1 in a "covered sounding" way, even after upsampling.
It's a good point. They can upsample the 44.1 stream to 192 and use that rate's reconstruction filters.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4392
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bogosort's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
If I remember the Ayre stuff correctly, you'd need to be using a 4 (or possibly 3) sample moving average on 192K, and a 2-sample moving average on 96K. There is no such filter for 44.1K or 48K and they're probably using standard digital audio technique for that, unless they're upsampling.
I could hear a 2-sample MA at 96k, so I don't think that's likely. They're probably doing as walter88 suggested: upsampling all rates to 192 then using a 4-sample MA for reconstruction.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4393
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogosort ➡️
I could hear a 2-sample MA at 96k, so I don't think that's likely. They're probably doing as walter88 suggested: upsampling all rates to 192 then using a 4-sample MA for reconstruction.
Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to hearing it eventually.
Old 30th April 2014
  #4394
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
maybe this is going to be offtopic, but here we (I) go:

I heard some of the things from the new Neil Young album "Letter To Home".

to keep it short: THAT IS SOME OF THE BIGGEST BS I EVER HEARD! (again: I am a fan of Neil Young ... and Jack White)

at first I thought, it was a joke, but no, it is serious. they recorded the whole album in a Voice-O-Graph @ Third Man Records "direct to master" and put it out on vinyl. later on will it be on DVD or CD or whatever.

and here is the point: NY came up with Pono for better sounding music. well ok, I think its bs, but what do I know ... then he comes up with this bs-record, that sounds like an overdose of iZotope Vinyl (with this I can make my recordings sounding exact the same without Jack White's Voice-O-Graph, and iZotope Vinyl is free!) and now what? he expects the audiophiles to buy that crap to listen to bs-vinyl-noise in 32bit/348khz?????

rethorical question: is he (NY) completely nuts? or is he too old to realise the bs? (in this context: the album sounds sooooo bad that it is in no way of any interest what the artist delivered in terms of performance. you cant hear the performance!

... the whole day facepalming ...
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4395
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe ➡️
maybe this is going to be offtopic, but here we (I) go:

I heard some of the things from the new Neil Young album "Letter To Home".

to keep it short: THAT IS SOME OF THE BIGGEST BS I EVER HEARD! (again: I am a fan of Neil Young ... and Jack White)

at first I thought, it was a joke, but no, it is serious. they recorded the whole album in a Voice-O-Graph @ Third Man Records and put it out on vinyl. later on will it be on DVD or CD or whatever.

and here is the point: NY came up with Pono for better sounding music. well ok, I think its bs, but what do I know ... then he comes up with this bs-record, that sounds like an overdose of iZotope Vinyl (with this I can make my recordings sounding exact the same without Jack White's Voice-O-Graph, and iZotope Vinyl is free!) and now what? he expects the audiophiles to buy that crap to listen to bs-vinyl-noise in 32bit/348khz?????

rethorical question: is he (NY) completely nuts? or is he too old to realise the bs?

... the whole day facepalming ...
Well......the one thing out of that which sticks out for me is that you say you can make things sound 'exactly the same' with iZotope Vinyl as the Voice-O-Graph.

I have no idea what the Voice-O-Graph sounds like, but to even contemplate that you would capture its essence by way of iZotope Vinyl proves nothing but that you are entirely missing the point here.

Still, props for the big stirring delivery of post.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4396
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe ➡️

at first I thought, it was a joke, but no, it is serious. they recorded the whole album in a Voice-O-Graph @ Third Man Records "direct to master" and put it out on vinyl. later on will it be on DVD or CD or whatever.
I think the point was to record it all directly to old medium... not because it sounds better, but for the vibe. I didn't buy the record but I think it's pretty cool.

Pono is a different story.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4397
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
I searched for 'sample rate pono' and didn't get ANY pornography in the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq
I searched for: "crowdsourcing pono competitor" because I was looking for a story about the Geek Wave and I forgot the name of the product but I knew it was crowdsourced

Number one hit top of the page was an article about crowdsourcing for PORN movies. Neil Young was #2. But no request for disambiguation.

Try it.
Please do try it. I would be very curious to see if this result was tailored to me personally!
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4398
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Please do try it. I would be very curious to see if this result was tailored to me personally!
Of course it is. All our Googles are custom result spitting machines, none the same. All dependent on what you have searched before. Which is why all those ads of cameras follow you everywhere for a while after you have done a little research to buy one.....etc.

Read "The Filter Bubble" by Eli Pariser. He spells it out in detail. Scary book of reality blast.

P.S. ...so if that search of yours unearths porn real quick...well.....someone has likely searched it before.....lol
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4399
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
Of course it is. All our Googles are custom result spitting machines, none the same....
so that means you did not try it?
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4400
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
so that means you did not try it?
I have now. Got the same as you.

Read that book though, our 'internet' is not the same for all....it vastly adapts to you and gathers untold info from you.......so to expect that others get the same is not entirely accurate.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4401
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi ➡️
Pono gets my vote simply because it will change the way how music will be produced in the future.
And make the world full of kittens and flowers and unicorns.

Right.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4402
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
I have now. Got the same as you.

Read that book though, our 'internet' is not the same for all....it vastly adapts to you and gathers untold info from you.......so to expect that others get the same is not entirely accurate.
Me too. You're cleared of being a wicked naughtyperson, for now.

Or technically, we just have not proved it to a high enough degree of confidence
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4403
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
I have now. Got the same as you.

Read that book though, our 'internet' is not the same for all....it vastly adapts to you and gathers untold info from you.......so to expect that others get the same is not entirely accurate.
oh I know! Once I looked up some obscure industrial process as research for a thread I was "debating" in. Thought nothing of it.

But I would go to the Washington Post and there would be an ad on the front page for some massive metal lathe. Later that same ad would appear on another site. I kept seeing it and wondering why, so I clicked on it one day and found out that lathe was used in the process I had researched once months before for an online discussion - that's all.

My idle curiosity had made me a "hot prospect" as far the the manufacturers of those lathes were concerned. I guess they don't get very many customers. The machine cost $100,000, so I guess they only need a few.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4404
Lives for gear
 
Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The fact that the mention of the Pono/Porno naming issue has caused so much discussion makes me think even more strongly that it will affect its success. I could have it totally backwards though... music listeners might actually like the thought that listening to Pono is like "audio porno", haha. Who knows?
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4405
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Me too. You're cleared of being a wicked naughtyperson, for now.

Or technically, we just have not proved it to a high enough degree of confidence
or a third possibility: we are all three of us naughty boys
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4406
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I did a Google search for Pono and got nothing but Pono. Google missed the mark on me.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pono.pdf (441.1 KB, 559 views)
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4407
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
or a third possibility: we are all three of us naughty boys
I thought you said you weren't?
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4408
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great ➡️
I did a Google search for Pono and got nothing but Pono. Google missed the mark on me.
as do I

but if you do a more complex search
such as

"crowdsourcing pono competitor"

such as has been mentioned three times now, you will probably see what others have seen
Old 30th April 2014
  #4409
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Wow, clearly one of the most - if not the most - off topic threads in the history of the internet. Guiness Book here we come!
So page 147, what are you going to unveil? Pornstars vs. Rockstars, the final debate?


Keep it moving ... there is some great creative potenial going on here!
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #4410
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
as do I

but if you do a more complex search
such as

"crowdsourcing pono competitor"

such as has been mentioned three times now, you will probably see what others have seen



Not really:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pono 1.pdf (465.9 KB, 110 views)
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