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Presenting Gyraf G21
Old 30th March 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Presenting Gyraf G21

Dear Slutz,

We'll be presenting our Gyraf G21 Magneto-dynamic Infundibulum - a passive clipper with some deeply disturbing consequences.. :D



We will be there with our German distributors (D.A.S. of Hamburg), at Location 5.1 C78 - Wednesday through Friday.


Would be nice to see some of you in person!

Jakob Erland
Gyraf Audio
Denmark
tel: (+45) 5129 2768
Old 30th March 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
WTF
..... is this beauty ??

The name itself sounds like a luxury fully featured time machine!!

Could you explain a bit more what this can be used for and what exactly it does ?
Old 30th March 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Scary! Passive clipper??
Old 30th March 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 
spoor14's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Found this link to a dutch shop, some extra info can be found there. It truly is passive: no mains connector! It seems to be a multiband clipper with some coloration options. https://www.helios-online.nl/shop/product/21-133/g21
Old 30th March 2013
  #5
Gear Head
 
spoor14's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Old 30th March 2013
  #6
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The Phoenix's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Infundibulum sounds so much more exciting than funnel.
Old 30th March 2013
  #7
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Marcocet's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Wow Jakob. Just wow.
Old 30th March 2013
  #8
Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
I will get you a beerifubulum at Messe

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk
Old 2nd April 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The name means you cant afford it. Or at least I couldn't

I've never even thought about a passive clipper. What would be the differences? I didn't think clipping was something analog circuitry did (shows how much I know)

Elaboration for the curious?
Old 2nd April 2013 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlyman ➑️
Could you explain a bit more what this can be used for and what exactly it does ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➑️
Elaboration for the curious?
It's really not easily explained - and we're working like dogs to manualize how to work it.

The G21 is kinda an elaboration on our G14 parallel-passive eq - the parallel topology enables multi-band control without running into the traditional problems in multi-banding (i.e. the problem in phase at recombining)

Use carefully - this is in no way a fire-and-forget gadget: Multiple types of interacting nonlinearities are at large, even a few in macroscopic time-domain because of components heating and temperature coefficients. Changing something in one band will sure as hell result in something else showing up somewhere else. Feels organic in that.

Classic problem is that multi-banding gives inadequate results because of filter phase shift messing up recombining. We deal with this by NOT band-splitting, but in stead dealing with all frequencies in parallel fashion, only opening frequency-selective channels into the clipping circuitry. Byproduct of this is that spike/peak phase is altered first, only to be real-clipped if pushing the phase won't get the total signal below threshold. Kinda like an audio file hair-remover (work title of the G21 was "The AudioShaver")

As we all know, clipping generates harmonics - there's simply no way around that. But what you do with those harmonics will make a lot of difference. The beauty is here, that as the clipping is done at the remote end of a frequency selective channel, the clipping byproducts (harmonics, at frequencies multiple times the clipped) have a hard time getting back out and into the audio, because they are now no more in the right frequency range..

And other than the three bands of clipping, we have an overall clipper that can be set for linear (white), pink -3dB/oct or red -5dB/oct emphasis - enabling gradually lower "threshold" at higher frequencise.

Then there's a fine-trim for output level and a 18dB/oct lowcut at the input - mainly because most of our test pilots were mastering engineers :-)

An example of a song that got varying amounts of G21 on every single track and the mix is Marybell Katastrophy's version of Libertine's "The Boy Looked At Johnny":

The Boy Looked At Johnny (The Libertines covered by Marybell Katastrophy), NME Magazine tribute - YouTube

Yes, it's kinda rough, but NME only gave them 24hours total for arranging, recording, mixing and mastering..

Jakob E.

Last edited by gyraf; 2nd April 2013 at 12:57 PM.. Reason: sp
Old 2nd April 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyraf ➑️
It's really not easily explained - and we're working like dogs to manualize how to work it.

The G21 is kinda an elaboration on our G14 parallel-passive eq - the parallel topology enables multi-band control without running into the traditional problems in multi-banding (i.e. the problem in phase at recombining)

Use carefully - this is in no way a fire-and-forget gadget: Multiple types of interacting nonlinearities are at large, even a few in macroscopic time-domain because of components heating and temperature coefficients. Changing something in one band will sure as hell result in something else showing up somewhere else. Feels organic in that.

Classic problem is that multi-banding gives inadequate results because of filter phase shift messing up recombining. We deal with this by NOT band-splitting, but in stead dealing with all frequencies in parallel fashion, only opening frequency-selective channels into the clipping circuitry. Byproduct of this is that spike/peak phase is altered first, only to be real-clipped if pushing the phase won't get the total signal below threshold. Kinda like an audio file hair-remover (work title of the G21 was "The AudioShaver")

As we all know, clipping generates harmonics - there's simply no way around that. But what you do with those harmonics will make a lot of difference. The beauty is here, that as the clipping is done at the remote end of a frequency selective channel, the clipping byproducts (harmonics, at frequencies multiple times the clipped) have a hard time getting back out and into the audio, because they are now no more in the right frequency range..

And other than the three bands of clipping, we have an overall clipper that can be set for linear (white), pink -3dB/oct or red -5dB/oct emphasis - enabling gradually lower "threshold" at higher frequencise.

Then there's a fine-trim for output level and a 18dB/oct lowcut at the input - mainly because most of our test pilots were mastering engineers :-)

An example of a song that got varying amounts of G21 on every single track and the mix is Marybell Katastrophy's version of Libertine's "The Boy Looked At Johnny":

The Boy Looked At Johnny (The Libertines covered by Marybell Katastrophy), NME Magazine tribute - YouTube

Yes, it's kinda rough, but NME only gave them 24hours total for arranging, recording, mixing and mastering..

Jakob E.
Mhmm, the track sounds distorted (in a nice way). I guess that's the passive clipper I can hear?

So what advantages over normal clipping. Judging from your statement less audible distortion? What about losing transients and high energy and ending up with dull sounds?

There is a multiband clipper in a digital compressor I have and it sounds great, you can push into saturation earlier without bad side effects, you can get very loud signals with it and they sound relatively okay.

I guess I'll understand this unit if and when you put up some before & afters?

Sami
Old 2nd April 2013
  #12
Village Idiot
 
Labs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Amazing!

Gustav
Old 2nd April 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
By the way guys, I've started a collection of various digital and analog overdrives, distortions, clipping, etc. I think it is an under documented topic, and we need to make sure people learn about it. Feel free to add types of clippings, example tracks, etc. to this list:
Overdrive & Distortion Research (anyone can edit)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0E&usp=sharing

Cheers.
Old 4th April 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Actually, the G21 is very far from being in the overdrives/distortions category - the whole point of it's existence is the ability to control dynamics with a minimum of disturbing side-effects like overdrive and distortion.

That said, it can off course be pushed far in all sorts of coloring directions - and who doesn't like pushing? :-)

Jakob E.
Old 4th April 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
World Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Jakob! We need some sort of demo sound file or video showing what it does. I love my gXIV and this would look so nice next to it.
Old 4th April 2013
  #16
Gear Addict
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
All I can say is:

I will arm wrestle anyone on this board for serial 001
Old 4th April 2013
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
very nice, congratulations
Old 4th April 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
jtienhaara's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Gyraf gear is on my "must try before I die" list. But until that day, I will be ready to take off my pants the instant Jakob lets a megalomaniac lab rat loose near that intriguing world-conquering monstrosity.

By using the Magnetic Dynamic Infundibulum to deplete hydrogen and promote gravitational collapse, we will produce a magnetic charge in the centre of the earth so strong that every person who has loose change in their pockets will be magnetically drawn to the ground and stuck there... We'll have to take over the world quickly!

Wish I was there at Musikmesse!
Old 5th April 2013
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Very Nice Jakob, congratulations in the G21
Old 7th April 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
 
ARIEL's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Interesting , so just some more clarification would this be the analogue advanced version of slates FG-X ?
Old 8th April 2013
  #21
Gear Addict
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
My personal reference would be the Magix Ammunition plugin in Sequoia-tude

...the final stop on masters for myself, others too I'm sure

I'm fantasizing a PL 2--> G 21 end game

Maybe never use a plugin again..?

Old 9th April 2013
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
A short demonstration of before and after a G21 with matched peak levels on a drumloop. The G21-loop begins at 00:11 (raising RMS by 2-3 dB)

I have used and tested the G21 heavily the last 1-2 years (mainly for mastering, but it is well suited for more creative use also). I will put up more comprehensive examples of what the G21 can do when I have the time.

The G21 in use is hard to compare with anything.

Because it is a soft clipper the threshold where it operates is 'floating'. The way G21 controls peaks is very different to hard-clipping (plugins or converters) or brickwall-limiters - it won't replace those kind of tools, but will add to the palette of loudness optimisation tools.

The G21 demands transients to work transparently. The soft clipping can be subtle and transparent but definitely also the opposite or something in between. Takes som time to learn - trust your ears and not the meters.

The multiband section is a completely new EQ-tool, like a dynamic-without-time constants G14 cutting filter with a distortion option. Often very useful.
Attached Files

Drumloop_G21.wav (5.79 MB, 1822 views)

Old 9th April 2013
  #23
Gear Nut
 
dangerousben's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
What will be the price when it hits the streets?
Old 9th April 2013
  #24
Gear Nut
 
jemu999's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Can't wait to see this in action. I have the gyraf g14 parallel eq, and it is absolutely amazing.
Old 11th April 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
..And it's now out in the open - we introduced it yesterday at the MusikMesse.

Spooked quite a few people - made one laugh out loud. Yes, we have a demonstration setup on headphone basis, and a collection of unmastered material of all sorts.

We have had a last-minute change to it's appearance as we decided to get rid of the elliptic filter, which sadly renders the beautiful picture above unusable. But it's still close enough to get an idea about the rest of the G21.

Jakob E.
Old 11th April 2013
  #26
Gear Addict
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No worries on the elliptical filter Jakob

...already have one

Does it still have the input high pass?
Old 11th April 2013 | Show parent
  #27
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer ➑️

Does it still have the input high pass?
Yes.
Old 12th April 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
jtienhaara's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Thomsen ➑️
A short demonstration of before and after a G21 with matched peak levels on a drumloop. The G21-loop begins at 00:11 (raising RMS by 2-3 dB)

...

The multiband section is a completely new EQ-tool, like a dynamic-without-time constants G14 cutting filter with a distortion option. Often very useful.
Nice! Love how the kick was brought to the front, it kind of sounds like the mic was moved closer, or a condenser replaced a dynamic, or something along those lines. Very aggressive change in the dynamic structure, yet very natural.

Any chance of revealing your settings for this loop, Emil? Basically I look at those photos and think "looks like it'd be lotsa fun to play with, but it might as well all be written in Danish because I don't understand a word!"

Cheers & good luck at Musikmesse.

Johann
Old 12th April 2013
  #29
GS Community Manager
 
Whitecat's Avatar
This thing is mad science at its finest. It WILL be used for the purposes of evil - the loudness war may have just gone thermonuclear - but it's also capable of some weirdly useful if surprising tone sculpting.

Actually, before I knew much about gear or the process of making records at all, I think I thought that this box *was* mastering.

It's sadly difficult to explain this any better than Jakob already has - you just have to hear it.
Attached Thumbnails
Presenting Gyraf G21-imageuploadedbygearslutz1365775340.712986.jpg  
Old 12th April 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
IΒ΄m still confused after toying around with it. ThatΒ΄s something very different. I never heard anything like that before. And I mean that in the most positive way. Seriously a new type of sound sculpting tool.
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