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UAD v6.5 released: LA2AMKII, API, Softube Amp Room
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #151
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbhall123 ➡️
Been testing the new La´s vs. the old UAD LA-2A, Waves CLA-2A, NI2A and IK WH 2A (standard indie drum kit in Logic 9 at 115 bpm - emphasis 100% -limit mode)

For all 3 there is a definitely a depth and wideness not present in those of their competitors. one could argue that you may get there with some reverb + spread + distortion.

But focus here is the way the plugs seem to contribute to/ complement the given input sound. And the new UA´s do entail something that to my ears sound better the rest of the gang. They are not bad, but just not that good either.
I compared the UAD and a native competitor (CPU friendly one) on the bass and I can't really tell the difference, actually I'm surprised at how close they sound.
Here are the files
A.
Attached Files

1.wav (5.38 MB, 241 views)

2.wav (5.38 MB, 272 views)

Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #152
Lives for gear
 
csiking's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I tossed the LA-2A on an existing mix that I thought was 'in the can'. First, it went on the bass and oh man it just took it to another level. Then I tossed it on the lead vocal and wow. Guess I'm gonna have to pull this mix out of the can and bump it up a notch or two!

Of course in a perfect world with deep pockets I would love to own a few of these in hardware form...but that's not gonna happen. So, having a high quality emulation at my finger tips that I can put on multiple sources...well, I've got wood!
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #153
Lives for gear
 
csiking's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d ➡️
Looks like I need to make a choice between the new La2a's & new 1176's.

Guess I have some demoing to do but so far it seems the La2a's were not as significant a leap forward from their originals in most folks opinion.
Reckon time will tell.
Chet listen to see if you notice tighter 'esses' with the LA-2A compared to the 1176 (both newer issues). I thought the LA-2A kept them more intact than the 1176. See what you think.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #154
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_Mark's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 ➡️
Well, there's no input transformer but you get the 2520 and the 2503. So it's close.
Without having the emulation of the input transformer, how big of a difference is this making?
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #155
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_bt ➡️
I compared the UAD and a native competitor (CPU friendly one) on the bass and I can't really tell the difference, actually I'm surprised at how close they sound.
Here are the files
A.
thanks.

fwiw

I prefered wav 2.

seemed to have more life to it. curious what the result is.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #156
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_bt ➡️
I compared the UAD and a native competitor (CPU friendly one) on the bass and I can't really tell the difference, actually I'm surprised at how close they sound.
Here are the files
A.
Yeah true it is very hard. But once again I would determine 2 as the new LA-2 due to the wideness/control of the bottom.

But again only at extreme settings they differ a lot
Tx for the test!!

Best Frederik
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #157
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➡️
thanks.

fwiw

I prefered wav 2.

seemed to have more life to it. curious what the result is.
I like them both the dynamic behaviour is slightly different, I'll post the names later so there's no bias
A.
PS: @ Frederik, not extreme but the native plug is compressing 5 to 8 dB to match the UAD

Last edited by Andy_bt; 15th February 2013 at 11:32 PM.. Reason: PS
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #158
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_bt ➡️
I like them both the dynamic behaviour is slightly different, I'll post the names later so there's no bias
A.
PS: @ Frederik, not extreme but the native plug is compressing 5 to 8 dB to match the UAD
yes, sorry I think I did not state my self correct. The more you push the plugs the more you´ll here the difference ( that is at least what I heard so around 5 - 8 is pretty medium rare steak
Does that make sense? Trying not to be to idioteque
Best
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #159
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbhall123 ➡️
yes, sorry I think I did not state my self correct. The more you push the plugs the more you´ll here the difference ( that is at least what I heard so around 5 - 8 is pretty medium rare steak
Does that make sense? Trying not to be to idioteque
Best
Agreed, a lot of plugs fall apart when you crank them
If you post an original and a UAD crunched version I could try to replicate the sound with my native comp, would be interesting.
A.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #160
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_bt ➡️
Agreed, a lot of plugs fall apart when you crank them
If you post an original and a UAD crunched version I could try to replicate the sound with my native comp, would be interesting.
A.
But did you not have the UADs? So just take any file and crank them Or did I misunderstand? Peace
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #161
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 ➡️
Well, there's no input transformer but you get the 2520 and the 2503. So it's close.
From the product page :

Quote:
Models the entire electronic path, including custom API 2520 op-amps and transformers, band interactions, and internal clipped filter distortion
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #162
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Can you crank the output GAIN to 100 and compensate with a trimmer plugin after, to get that distortion that sounds great on rock vocals.

A famous engineer used this technique on a song (don't remember the names), and it sounds so creamy, a great trick !

So, with the new LA-2A Collection, does it work now with all the amplifiers, tubes distortion and transfos modeling ?
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #163
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➡️
Can you crank the output GAIN to 100 and compensate with a trimmer plugin after, to get that distortion that sounds great on rock vocals.

A famous engineer used this technique on a song (don't remember the names), and it sounds so creamy, a great trick !

So, with the new LA-2A Collection, does it work now with all the amplifiers, tubes distortion and transfos modeling ?
Yes.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #164
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grassrootking ➡️
Yes.
Great ! Makes me want to try these even more .
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #165
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➡️
Great ! Makes me want to try these even more .
I just gave it a go myself...works really well actually. Gives a nice vocal distortion. Almost like running through a guitar amp.

Just for reference, I tried with the IK models (old and new). Not even close. They're barely distorting at all.

The new UA versions would make a great vocal distortion effect.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #166
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kingofswing's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➡️
Can you crank the output GAIN to 100 and compensate with a trimmer plugin after, to get that distortion that sounds great on rock vocals.

A famous engineer used this technique on a song (don't remember the names), and it sounds so creamy, a great trick !

So, with the new LA-2A Collection, does it work now with all the amplifiers, tubes distortion and transfos modeling ?



1176 collection is great for this, and now the LA-2A collection
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #167
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➡️
I just gave it a go myself...works really well actually. Gives a nice vocal distortion. Almost like running through a guitar amp.

Just for reference, I tried with the IK models (old and new). Not even close. They're barely distorting at all.

The new UA versions would make a great vocal distortion effect.
That's great to know.

Is the distortion different between the 3 models ? I'm sure it is, but is it so subtle that you almost can hear a difference, or does it really offer distinct flavors of coloration ?

About the IK White 2A, the latest update (since T-RackS Grand) distorts if you turn the knob way up, but it's so SUBTLE... You almost need to have a signal already distorted to enhance it, but if you start with something clean, you hear barely something.

On a side note, try stacking 2 White 2A with the GAIN knob at 100. Now you hear it clearly.

Also, the NI VC 2A adds some nice distortion when cranking the GAIN knob past 80%.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #168
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbhall123 ➡️
But did you not have the UADs? So just take any file and crank them Or did I misunderstand? Peace
UAD bass is Olof's file, no card here, I'm just comparing out of curiosity as I like what they've done with the 1176.
A.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #169
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➡️
That's great to know.

Is the distortion different between the 3 models ? I'm sure it is, but is it so subtle that you almost can hear a difference, or does it really offer distinct flavors of coloration ?

About the IK White 2A, the latest update (since T-RackS Grand) distorts if you turn the knob way up, but it's so SUBTLE... You almost need to have a signal already distorted to enhance it, but if you start with something clean, you hear barely something.

On a side note, try stacking 2 White 2A with the GAIN knob at 100. Now you hear it clearly.

Also, the NI VC 2A adds some nice distortion when cranking the GAIN knob past 80%.
The distortion is different between the three. The grey and silver are the closest, but one seems to have more sustain (for lack of a better term) in the bottom, and while the other seems a bit more spiky. The LA-2 distorts the least at these settings, but it's still quite distorted.

I heard the slight distortion with the White 2A and even stacked two as you suggested, but it's not comparable to a single instance of these new LA-2A's. One instance alone really sounds like you ran the vocals through a driven guitar amp. The IK versions just don't do that.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #170
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlofBerggren ➡️
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b4x2r44kmb9y1m1/yBoo4yhZCS

Okay. nothing scientific, compression amount is around 7 - 10db.
Hope my link works for you all?
I loaded up your files and used the dry file to try and match the hardware. I matched the volumes, and also was shooting for about 7-10db reduction. I found the Gray version with the emphasis knob at about 3 o'clock was close enough that I couldn't hear the difference on the bass track when moving back and forth between the hardware and the plugin using Sonar's Exclusive Solo feature (which is fantastic for A/B'ing BTW).
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #171
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➡️
The distortion is different between the three. The grey and silver are the closest, but one seems to have more sustain (for lack of a better term) in the bottom, and while the other seems a bit more spiky. The LA-2 distorts the least at these settings, but it's still quite distorted.

I heard the slight distortion with the White 2A and even stacked two as you suggested, but it's not comparable to a single instance of these new LA-2A's. One instance alone really sounds like you ran the vocals through a driven guitar amp. The IK versions just don't do that.
Alright, thanks for the infos !

I found the song I was talking about with the driven LA-2A on the lead vocal : Icky Thump by The White Stripes :



And the article : Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #172
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Ok, here's a quick distortion test. I used the previous dry vocal files posted in this thread, figuring the OP wouldn't mind since it's just a continuation of the same kind of comparison. Olaf, if it's a problem, PM me and I'll take down the files immediately.

Gain at 100, reduction at around 60 (yeah, I know, I didn't even try and match gain reduction), absolutely no level matching at all. Also, I added 20db of gain reduction post each LA-2A using two instances of SKNote Xtrim. Even much louder, it's clear that the IKMM version is distorting way less (while also compressing a lot more), whereas the new UA ones are relatively on par with each other volume-wise allowing you to hear the difference in distortion. I included the old LA-2A just for laughs.

LA-2A Gray
https://www.dropbox.com/s/73jcg2bjiu...A2A%20Gray.wav

LA-2A Silver:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1h6pxevady...A%20Silver.wav

LA-2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51e53udbpx...ist%20LA-2.wav

Old UA LA-2A:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hlizc8l47...ld%20LA-2A.wav

IKMM (new) White 2A:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x3s3izubn...%20White2A.wav

If anyone has the Cakewalk PC-2A, I'd like to hear that one too. I'd also like to hear the hardware.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #173
Lives for gear
 
icecubeman's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➡️
Ok, here's a quick distortion test. I used the previous dry vocal files posted in this thread, figuring the OP wouldn't mind since it's just a continuation of the same kind of comparison. Olaf, if it's a problem, PM me and I'll take down the files immediately.

Gain at 100, reduction at around 60 (yeah, I know, I didn't even try and match gain reduction), absolutely no level matching at all. Also, I added 20db of gain reduction post each LA-2A using two instances of SKNote Xtrim. Even much louder, it's clear that the IKMM version is distorting way less (while also compressing a lot more), whereas the new UA ones are relatively on par with each other volume-wise allowing you to hear the difference in distortion. I included the old LA-2A just for laughs.

LA-2A Gray
https://www.dropbox.com/s/73jcg2bjiu...A2A%20Gray.wav

LA-2A Silver:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1h6pxevady...A%20Silver.wav

LA-2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51e53udbpx...ist%20LA-2.wav

Old UA LA-2A:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hlizc8l47...ld%20LA-2A.wav

IKMM (new) White 2A:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x3s3izubn...%20White2A.wav

If anyone has the Cakewalk PC-2A, I'd like to hear that one too. I'd also like to hear the hardware.
If you post dry file I can make PC2A example
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #174
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My general recommendation is to not immediately take a "scientific testing" mindset. Presume that this part is over now. There's a staff of people in a modeling lab who have been doing that for a year+. Assume they've done all the testing needed.

Go and just use it for a while, see it how it feels. Will this be something you reach for? When? Why? Where? Those are the most pressing questions. Abandon the science hat, put on the art hat. Just for now. Get geeky about it later if you really want to. But for now, just use The Force.

For fun, try a mix using only these API EQ's. You'll probably learn something. Pretty good way of seeing whether you like the sound/feel. You'll get more acquainted than A/B-ing clips of this or that.

That's my general approach to this stuff.

- c
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #175
Lives for gear
 
icecubeman's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➡️
My general recommendation is to not immediately take a "scientific testing" mindset. Presume that this part is over now. There's a staff of people in a modeling lab who have been doing that for a year+. Assume they've done all the testing needed.

Go and just use it for a while, see it how it feels. Will this be something you reach for? When? Why? Where? Those are the most pressing questions. Abandon the science hat, put on the art hat. Just for now. Get geeky about it later if you really want to. But for now, just use The Force.

For fun, try a mix using only these API EQ's. You'll probably learn something. Pretty good way of seeing whether you like the sound/feel. You'll get more acquainted than A/B-ing clips of this or that.

That's my general approach to this stuff.

- c
Are you sure the people at UA labs doing it well this time? I dont think after I listening to new LA2A. What changed really is DSP usage and this points to something else than quality of product... 1176 revisions was another story
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #176
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➡️
My general recommendation is to not immediately take a "scientific testing" mindset. Presume that this part is over now. There's a staff of people in a modeling lab who have been doing that for a year+. Assume they've done all the testing needed.

Go and just use it for a while, see it how it feels. Will this be something you reach for? When? Why? Where? Those are the most pressing questions. Abandon the science hat, put on the art hat. Just for now. Get geeky about it later if you really want to. But for now, just use The Force.

For fun, try a mix using only these API EQ's. You'll probably learn something. Pretty good way of seeing whether you like the sound/feel. You'll get more acquainted than A/B-ing clips of this or that.

That's my general approach to this stuff.

- c
+1
Old 16th February 2013
  #177
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_Mark's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I feel stupid for it, but I can't really tell any character in the 550A. I've went back and forth on a few sources, and have -- thus far -- had no results.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #178
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSilver ➡️
Is API any better than Waves?
Way better to my ears, auditioned on mm27's and a decent room
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #179
Lives for gear
 
icecubeman's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vank ➡️
Way better to my ears, auditioned on mm27's and a decent room
Please describe what exactly is better....
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #180
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman ➡️
Please describe what exactly is better....
Why not just try them yourself...that's why we have demo periods. Let your own ears decide.

I don't care about Waves vs UAD versions, I just know that I have been a happy API 5500 / 550B user for a few years now, have also worked with 550a and 560's. UAD have nailed the tone and band interaction of the hardware. Basically you can boost with these till your hearts content, and they still hold up. Many plugin EQ's fall short for extreme boosting.

And yes the UAD API 550A sounds superbly analog for a plugin. Not much more to say.
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