Quantcast
NAMM: Waves Audio Announces AAX Native Support - Page 2 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
NAMM: Waves Audio Announces AAX Native Support
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks ➡️
Rather than blaming Waves, you should be blaming Avid for creating another format again. How many of them do we need ?
Protools users wanted 64bit plugins. RTAS/TDM was not going to be able to do that. Can't have it both ways.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #32
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I love that Waves provides a link to their website (which they haven't updated yet) for more information.

Has anybody at the NAMM Show heard when this is supposed to be available?
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
Deleted 9173ceb
Guest
Quote:
Protools users wanted 64bit plugins. RTAS/TDM was not going to be able to do that. Can't have it both ways.
I did not suggest they had to stick with RTAS / TDM.

As I said many times, I'm advocating for some type of universal format. Should it be VST, AAX or something else, I don't really care.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell ➡️
Hey Kenny,

nah, its not the same. Its a Pro Tools HDX system.
Most people are not aware that HDX actually gives you more Native Power than an HD Native system does.
Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell ➡️
And who says your going to use all Native Plugs with HDX?
You wouldn't but if you are heavily invested in Waves (which I'm not) the inability to use DSP for plugins is important to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott petito ➡️
No Kenny in fact it is far worse to run native Axx on an hdx system ...one simple fact you lose voice count. Just like you did on a tdm system with a native plugin... So you have to plan out your plugin order so you don't eat up a ton of voices
Running hd native there is no voice count loose its one to one
Is the latency much worse as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott petito ➡️
I have both systems hd native and hdx I use hdx everyday. But the single most important reason ... Almost no latency. Otherwise I think HD native on
a fast machine has an edge

Cheers
Scott
Good to know. Thanks.
Old 25th January 2013
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Untill a few minutes ago, I didn't realize that Waves have announced their own DSP box called Digigrid, it all makes since now, no Waves AAX DSP support because they want us to buy thier DSP box. I'm so glad that I didn't buy the Waves Mercury Bundle like I wanted to just before AAX was announced and Waves became non-commental regarding AAX, they were non-commental because they were working Digigrid. I wish Waves the best of luck but I won't be investing any more cash with them. As stated by another poster when you buy into the whole WUP thing and then they pull this, well I just can't trust them to give me the updates that I need to use the platform of my choice. Time to move on.


Old 25th January 2013
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Is the latency much worse as well?
I haven't had any problems tracking through Native plugins here (HD Native system) though some performers still prefer a HW mix without their new track going through any AD.

I'm really looking forward to having these as AAX and am curious to see what impact it'll have on processing if any
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
EduardoApolonia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi ➡️
Untill a few minutes ago, I didn't realize that Waves have announced their own DSP box called Digigrid, it all makes since now, no Waves AAX DSP support because they want us to buy thier DSP box.
Exactly!!

For me it's +/- the same arrogant move as (was speculated) if Avid would lock their software to Avid I/O interfaces only.

Would they sell more I/O Interfaces? Of course
Would they sell more Pro Tools systems/software? Of course not!!!!

And in the long run, they would lose the big share they have today because people would look for alternatives and start to like them.

That's what Waves is doing, trying to force people to buy their Soundgrid gear if you want DSP, but at the same time that makes a lot of people (that would easily stay with Waves) go for other options.

That's what happen to me, and I don't think I'm alone…
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Nope you're not alone Eduardo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EduardoApolonia ➡️
That's what Waves is doing, trying to force people to buy their Soundgrid gear if you want DSP, but at the same time that makes a lot of people (that would easily stay with Waves) go for other options.

That's what happen to me, and I don't think I'm alone…

Does anyone remember this flop - waves apa32 ?

Marco Bernardo
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
SoundEng1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi ➡️
Untill a few minutes ago, I didn't realize that Waves have announced their own DSP box called Digigrid, it all makes since now, no Waves AAX DSP support because they want us to buy thier DSP box. I'm so glad that I didn't buy the Waves Mercury Bundle like I wanted to just before AAX was announced and Waves became non-commental regarding AAX, they were non-commental because they were working Digigrid. I wish Waves the best of luck but I won't be investing any more cash with them. As stated by another poster when you buy into the whole WUP thing and then they pull this, well I just can't trust them to give me the updates that I need to use the platform of my choice. Time to move on.


Same here!
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
This is only partially true. If you run the native plugins on disk tracks with no DSP plugins in front of them, then you will incur zero additional latency and not lose any voices. As soon as you are in the DSP realm (the mixer or plugins) and jump back to the native host, you'll lose a voice as well as incur additional latency equal to double the hardware buffer size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott petito ➡️
No Kenny in fact it is far worse to run native Axx on an hdx system ...one simple fact you lose voice count. Just like you did on a tdm system with a native plugin... So you have to plan out your plugin order so you don't eat up a ton of voices
Running hd native there is no voice count loose its one to one


I have both systems hd native and hdx I use hdx everyday. But the single most important reason ... Almost no latency. Otherwise I think HD native on
a fast machine has an edge

Cheers
Scott
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonM ➡️
If Avid were remotely intelligent, they'd announce VST support for PT XI or whatever it will be called when it is announced in 2016.

-D
Uh, why would Avid do this? What VST plugins are you dying to use in Pro Tools that don't already exist. Hell is more likely to freeze over before this.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama ➡️
Uh, why would Avid do this? What VST plugins are you dying to use in Pro Tools that don't already exist. Hell is more likely to freeze over before this.
EDIT: APPARENTLY I MISSED A RESPONSE BY ANGUS FROM FXPansion that this is NOT true... sorry about that.

actually it's been pretty much confirmed (as much as is possible with Avid) that they are going to do exactly this.

There was a briefly available piece of software - released last December by SugarBytes that was a wrapper for VST > AAX but was quickly killed by AVID due to developer agreements with FXPansion to create a wrapper like they did for VST > RTAS and further that this technology was going to be included in PT11

here's a thread on it - there is some more info on pro tools expert and other sites as well


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...x-wrapper.html

Last edited by superwack; 26th January 2013 at 02:34 AM.. Reason: Sorry - missed the fact this was refuted by FXPansion.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Thanks for the clarification.



You wouldn't but if you are heavily invested in Waves (which I'm not) the inability to use DSP for plugins is important to know.



Is the latency much worse as well?
Kenny
For 99 perfect of your tracking...no the latency would not be a problem with HD native BUT have someone like Simon Phillips play drums and he will detect 4ms of Latency every time ...so I have hdx for tracking less than 2 ms
If you use lots of tracks and lots of aux on a single card hdx system running a mix of native and dsp plugs you more than likely will run out of voices far sooner than on a native hd system....that's the trade off the cure an additional hdx car for 6 grand etc...more voices

So you can see why you want to have dsp versions for hdx

Don't get me wrong hdx is great and I am eventually selling my native hd card


Good to know. Thanks.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes my reply is unclear in that regard... A native plug on a insert will not use a additional voice but if it is in front of a dsp plug it will eat 2 voices
If you follow a native with another dsp you will eat 4 voices

So you have to be a bit more careful when mixing dsp and native plugs on an hdx system...

Say you like tracking with the waves API on drums unless you place a aax dsp plug first the native version would be bypassed if you place it any dsp plug you will be able to monitor through the native API but you will eat 2 voices so on a drum kit at 96 with say 12 tracks of drums you eat 24 voices of your 128 total
This could be compounded even more depending the order you like to place plugs and whether they were dsp or native....

On the native hd you would only use 12 voices
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Pretty much explains exactly why I only use RTAS plugins on my TDM system for Reverb. Where I don't care about latency. Everything else is TDM.

Thanks
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack ➡️
UM, actually it's been pretty much confirmed (as much as is possible with Avid) that they are going to do exactly this.

There was a briefly available piece of software - released last December by SugarBytes that was a wrapper for VST > AAX but was quickly killed by AVID due to developer agreements with FXPansion to create a wrapper like they did for VST > RTAS and further that this technology was going to be included in PT11

here's a thread on it - there is some more info on pro tools expert and other sites as well

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...x-wrapper.html


I must ask the question, how could you possibly ignore the statement quoted below, which was posted in the very thread that you yourself have post a link to, in a effort to make your point. Kind of puts your credibility into question, does it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus_FX ➡️
False rumour. We're working on AAX versions of some of our instrument & fx plug-ins, perhaps that got lost in translation somewhere. To the best of my knowledge, right now nothing of ours is scheduled to be included in 11.



Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
scott petito's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes and yes there are alternatives for almost any plug but I really like using an waves API so not having a aax dsp version makes it a little more difficult on the hdx system... I still do it but it is not ideal...

When I go to mix no issue
So it really depends on your work flow and how you like to set up and use your plugins

But say cutting guitar through a simulator you have to place a dsp plug in front no way around that
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
TheOxmyn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
Good to see the Waves AAX shoe dropping. I can't count how many people have asked me when this was happening.
I just updated my WUP with you about a month ago. Is this going to cost me my WUP or will it be an added update on the WOLI ??
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack ➡️
UM, actually it's been pretty much confirmed (as much as is possible with Avid) that they are going to do exactly this.

There was a briefly available piece of software - released last December by SugarBytes that was a wrapper for VST > AAX but was quickly killed by AVID due to developer agreements with FXPansion to create a wrapper like they did for VST > RTAS and further that this technology was going to be included in PT11

here's a thread on it - there is some more info on pro tools expert and other sites as well

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...x-wrapper.html
It was pulled because Sugar Bytes didn't bother to send it to Avid for approval before releasing it. It's part of the process they signed up for when they got an SDK.

The plugin wasn't pulled because Avid's planning on adding VST compatibility.

Seeing a rogue plugin wrapper and equating that to Avid adding a competitor's format after they've been pushing people all year to recode their plugin's for AAX/DSP? This is hilarious. Thanks for making my day.
Old 26th January 2013
  #50
Lives for gear
 
otobianki74's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama ➡️
The plugin wasn't pulled because Avid's planning on adding VST compatibility.

Seeing a rogue plugin wrapper and equating that to Avid adding a competitor's format after they've been pushing people all year to recode their plugin's for AAX/DSP? This is hilarious. Thanks for making my day.
a unique way of looking at what transpired to say the least.
Old 26th January 2013
  #51
Lives for gear
 
superwack's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I apologize that I missed that response from Angus_FX nearly 2 months ago that probably was posted after I last read the thread and lost interest when the software was killed. I have added a disclaimer to my earlier thread.
Old 26th January 2013
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks and understood.
Old 26th January 2013
  #53
Lives for gear
 
shortstory's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack ➡️
Kinda... I think Roc's point (and one I've made as well) is that any Native/CPU power used to do the routing/mixing/tracks, etc. in Pro Tools Native is freed up by the HDX card thus giving you more CPU for plugins since it isn't being used for the other tasks.

100% sure that's not worth the $3-4k though
It also means the HDX card will handle the processing of all AAX plugs- taking it off your host processor. It's basically the new TDM. Here we go again with avid/digi. Spending money all over again. But what can you do? You gotta pay to play.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #54
Deleted 9173ceb
Guest
Quote:
And in the long run, they would lose the big share they have today because people would look for alternatives and start to like them.
Let's not forget that HDX owners are only a very tiny share of the actual plug-in market ! I don't know in your market but every sutio running PT I work with are still on TDM with no plan to upgrade anytime soon. And of course, we have to add all native users and other DAW users. Cubase, Logic, DP, Studio One, Reaper, Live or Sonar users couldn't care less about AAX DSP but may have interst in Waves or UAD solutions.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #55
Lives for gear
 
tobymusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 9173ceb ➡️
Let's not forget that HDX owners are only a very tiny share of the actual plug-in market ! I don't know in your market but every sutio running PT I work with are still on TDM with no plan to upgrade anytime soon. And of course, we have to add all native users and other DAW users. Cubase, Logic, DP, Studio One, Reaper, Live or Sonar users couldn't care less about AAX DSP but may have interst in Waves or UAD solutions.
That's correct at the moment, but I expect this to change once 64 bit DAWs take over everywhere, especially Pro Tools 11, or when there will be useful plug-ins that would not run on TDM systems any more. But right now, with Pro Tools 10 there is very little pressure for studios to upgrade their TDM systems if they are already running on a Mac Pro.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #56
Deleted 9173ceb
Guest
Quote:
That's correct at the moment, but I expect this to change once 64 bit DAWs take over everywhere, especially Pro Tools 11
I agree, and Waves may very well change their mind when the market grows. On the other hand, with many studios not making as much money as they used to, they may stick with 32bit TDM as long as their computers allow them to do it and, when finally upgrading, choosing to go with a less expensive solution than HDX. A native system with UAD or this new Waves hardware (proven it works well) could be more than enough for most music dedicated facilities.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 9173ceb ➡️
I agree, and Waves may very well change their mind when the market grows. On the other hand, with many studios not making as much money as they used to, they may stick with 32bit TDM as long as their computers allow them to do it and, when finally upgrading, choosing to go with a less expensive solution than HDX. A native system with UAD or this new Waves hardware (proven it works well) could be more than enough for most music dedicated facilities.

My guess is that Waves will change their mind only if their new DSP platform is unsuccessful, if it is successful then they will not support competing products like AAX DSP, UAD DSP, and so-fourth.

IMHO the price of the UAD Octo Ultimate is not that inexpensive.

Just say'n.


Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks ➡️
Rather than blaming Waves, you should be blaming Avid for creating another format again. How many of them do we need ?

I 100% agree with this blog post by the way. This is the real problem here !
The marketplace will ultimately decide. Just how a lot of plugins are finally 64-bit if the demand (read: $$$$) is there then companies will port.

No one is forcing developers to make their plugins on all platforms.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi ➡️
My guess is that Waves will change their mind only if their new DSP platform is unsuccessful, if it is successful then they will not support competing products like AAX DSP, UAD DSP, and so-fourth.

IMHO - You'd have to be a little nuts to sink money into a Waves DSP product after this:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-bad-news.html
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
IMHO - You'd have to be a little nuts to sink money into a Waves DSP product after this:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-bad-news.html
So much for WUP!!
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 202 views: 57599
Avatar for jakeg70888
jakeg70888 9th September 2018
replies: 55 views: 30667
Avatar for IM WHO YOU THINK
IM WHO YOU THINK 13th October 2020
replies: 81 views: 19580
Avatar for Leechlife
Leechlife 25th December 2011
replies: 1296 views: 178658
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump