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NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #211
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp ➡️
Sorry, the only one I ever go to is InterBee in Chiba. Don't know if there's any such thing in Tokyo. Maybe small-ish events inside music stores?
Okay thanks. I've definitely read about such keyboard/synth shows in the Japanese 'Music Trades' magazine, but don't know how often they're held.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #212
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
End of this month in the US, early next month in Europe. Australia, again, no immediate plans but I'm hopeful that this will change by Musikmesse in April. Availability in all other counties will depend on the distributor in that country.

Cheers,
James
x
Hopefully I will be able to buy it from sweetwater and they can ship it here.

Thanks a lot!
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #213
Gear Maniac
 
Virtuoso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
I've been looking for a dedicated piano controller for Ivory for the past three years...but nah, I'm not gonna buy it because my audio interface may not sit completely flat."
I think the curved top is a minor form-over-function design flaw, but the lack of mod/pitch wheel limits it to a very niche market - people who want a piano controller and nothing else. It's like buying a mouse that only works with Excel!

The market opportunity would have been much greater for people who want to control pianos AND other virtual instruments.

Ultimately the sales figures will show what people really want - I just hope that if sales are poor, Kawai don't completely abandon the concept - they just widen it slightly and release a VPC2 with the functions people are asking for.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #214
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso ➡️
I think the curved top is a minor form-over-function design flaw, but the lack of mod/pitch wheel limits it to a very niche market - people who want a piano controller and nothing else. It's like buying a mouse that only works with Excel!

The market opportunity would have been much greater for people who want to control pianos AND other virtual instruments.

Ultimately the sales figures will show what people really want - I just hope that if sales are poor, Kawai don't completely abandon the concept - they just widen it slightly and release a VPC2 with the functions people are asking for.

And without a price increase, even $100 controllers havem
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #215
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso ➡️
I think the curved top is a minor form-over-function design flaw, but the lack of mod/pitch wheel limits it to a very niche market - people who want a piano controller and nothing else. It's like buying a mouse that only works with Excel!
Not really. It's more like a computer that is intended primarily for running Excel...sounds like a bad idea, until you realise that the computer is called the 'Excel Computer 5000' and marketed as 'The best computer for Excel!'.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #216
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 ➡️
And without a price increase, even $100 controllers havem
...and the great news is that those $100 controllers will work perfectly with the VPC1.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I would like to add that cheap products come with a price.... You know.... Kids working in factories etc.

But I guess most people only care for themselves.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #218
Gear Maniac
 
Virtuoso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Not really. It's more like a computer that is intended primarily for running Excel...sounds like a bad idea, until you realise that the computer is called the 'Excel Computer 5000' and marketed as 'The best computer for Excel!'.

Cheers,
James
x
Hardly. The VPC1 is just a controller. It doesn't do anything at all until you plug it into a computer. Sticking with the mouse analogy, I suppose it's like the world's finest one button mouse, when the majority of people would prefer 2 or more buttons.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #219
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso ➡️
The VPC1 is just a controller.
Almost..

Its a PIANO controller. Not a KEYBOARD controller.
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #220
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
@James

Can you stick 25cm more wood on the back so I place a Voyager XL on top?

Just kiddin heh
Old 15th February 2013 | Show parent
  #221
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso ➡️
Hardly. The VPC1 is just a controller. It doesn't do anything at all until you plug it into a computer. Sticking with the mouse analogy, I suppose it's like the world's finest one button mouse, when the majority of people would prefer 2 or more buttons.
Yes, that's reasonably fair.

The most important function of the mouse is to move the cursor and select/click icons and links. Similarly, the most important function of a virtual piano controller is to control a virtual piano, and that's what the 88 black and white keys (and three pedals) are for.

Sure, additional mouse buttons (the knobs, buttons, and wheels of a 'do everything' MIDI controller) can be useful, but the majority of time, the ability to accurately move the cursor and select/click icons and links is more important.

Good analogy!

Cheers,
James
x
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #222
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Yes, that's reasonably fair.

The most important function of the mouse is to move the cursor and select/click icons and links. Similarly, the most important function of a virtual piano controller is to control a virtual piano, and that's what the 88 black and white keys (and three pedals) are for.

Sure, additional mouse buttons (the knobs, buttons, and wheels of a 'do everything' MIDI controller) can be useful, but the majority of time, the ability to accurately move the cursor and select/click icons and links is more important.

Good analogy!

Cheers,
James
x
I think it's a good analogy, but one that points out the flaws more than it emphasizes the positives.

If I have to go to the store and buy a new mouse, am I gonna get the one-button mouse that can only do one thing? No, I'm gonna get the mouse with lots of great features and the most competitive pricing.

Unfortunately this analogy isn't seamless, because the importance of a nice feeling keybed far outweighs the importance of a nice feeling mouse button. Even if there is a mouse that offers the feel of heaven, I'm not gonna buy it unless it's wireless and there is a scroll wheel, kind of like I wouldn't buy the VPC1 without pb / mw & a flat surface (ideally very slightly angled hint hint).
Old 16th February 2013
  #223
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Sorry Kawai James but you can't tell your customers what they want, it works in the opposite direction. I, as a highly-interested potential customer, feel that this product is very exciting and that it would make the perfect weighted controller for my home studio EXCEPT it lacks pitch bend and that kills the deal for me. So, unfortunately for both of us, the mouse analogy holds water. I don't want to buy it just to use Excel, it want to use it with every app. I've been searching for a great weighted keyboard for several years and thought that this was it, until noticing the missing pitch wheel, and so now my search continues.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #224
Deleted ff086b4
Guest
Reading through this thread I do wonder about some of your workflows! Personally, I'm very excited about the VPC1, I do a lot of orchestral work with sample libraries, yet I'm delighted the VPC1 won't have a mod wheel. Why? Because I hardly ever use my 88 key controller (Oxygen 88) for mod wheel work, finding it much easier and more logical to use my 25 key Oxygen 25.

One of the keys to making convincing orchestral mock ups is to enter each instrument one at a time, so that each MIDI track has its own modulation info. The oxygen 25 is perfect for this, with its transpose button right next to the mod wheel. If you start using an 88 key controller to enter in multiple parts (say Violin 1, Violin2, Viola) in one pass, then each track is going to have the exact same modulation curve - thereby causing your mockup to be a lot less realistic.

Now, sometimes there's nothing more fun than to sit at my 88 key controller and fire up LASS 2 and get lots of voices going - but as we all know, to get lots of wide voices going you need two hands on the keys, so I assign modulation to my Yamaha FC7 expression pedal, thereby allowing my 2 hands the full use of the keys. The LAST thing you need when wanting to play multiple voices is for one of your hands to be busy using a mod wheel!

So I don't see the need of a mod wheel on the VPC1 for what I do, which I suspect is also what a lot of you do. But I am going to purchase the 'MIDI Solutions Pedal to MIDI Converter' so that I can use my expression pedal with the VPC1, then I can have fun with LASS 2 when I want to.

But really, I only ever play wide harmonies for fun or when I'm writing. I would never consider recording them with an 88 key controller in one pass - it just doesn't sound as good as entering each one individually.

The Oxygen 25 (or any other 25 key controller) is all one needs for entering in monophonic string lines - which is the way any mock up should be done in my opinion.

I applaud Kawai for having the sense to leave out the mod and pitch wheels - it looks beautiful. I'm placing an order with Thomann as soon as the European release date is announced. The keyboard action on the Oxygen 88 is terrible for playing piano VSTs so I can't wait to upgrade to the VPC1 - it's going to be quite a leap in quality I suspect!

Let's remember what VPC stands for... virtual PIANO controller. Not virtual INSTRUMENT controller.

And thank you to Kawai James for addressing peoples' questions and (completely nonsensical) complaints.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #225
Deleted ff086b4
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
Sorry Kawai James but you can't tell your customers what they want, it works in the opposite direction.
He never told Kawai's customers what they want (they're not Apple! ) - Kawai have designed a Virtual Piano Controller, and its market is obviously people like me who would prefer an aesthetically pleasing piano controller without all the unnecessary buttons and mod wheels. That is this products unique selling point - its aesthetics! If they slap a mod wheel on it then it will look like any other controller, thereby losing me as a customer in the process.

An artist friend of mine has already said he's going to consider buying the VPC for live use. It would look great on stage, instead of having something that sounds like a piano but resembles a spaceship cockpit! He said he could run it with the Muse Research Receptor with Galaxy Vintage D loaded into it. With the VPC's Galaxy D touch curve this will be an amazing combination.

The VPC1's practicality and aesthetic value for live use has probably been understated so far.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #226
Deleted ff086b4
Guest
I should probably mention that I'm not Kawai James... before people get suspicious of my praise for the VPC.
Old 17th February 2013
  #227
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
James Avery, thank you for your considered post.

It's encouraging to read posts from musicians and composers who understand the true purpose of the VPC1. Your explanation provides an excellent example of how the board can be combined with other controllers that are more suitable for specific tasks.

Regarding availability, I'm afraid I do not know when Thomann will begin shipping this board, however it has already been added to some other European webstores, so it shouldn't be too long. It may also be worth dropping Kawai UK a line to find out which dealers closer to you will be receiving stock.

Thanks again, oh, and great name by the way.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 17th February 2013
  #228
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hello everyone!

This thread is quite fun to read. Some people seem offended, that something as well-thought-out wasn't made in thought of them personally. Well, they sure had me in mind. I can't wait to try it out, fall in love, lose track of the price and take it home. Now that's the plan.
As for the lack of a mod/pitch wheel: I would rather have none included, than one that is flawed or out of reach (Fatar Numa). Silly compromises. That said, I do hope for a pretty, affordable standalone solution. Can't be all that difficult. Little box, two wheels, some solder. I really signed up here only to second this request. Would be awesome.

Thanks and bye
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #229
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
James Avery, thank you for your considered post.
So you've considering my post inconsiderable. It was meant to be an aid for Kawai's marketing and future product development, not criticism. The design of this product isn't nebulous - we all get it - but customer feedback is typically valued within the structure of most companies and so it's a custom to provide these opinions. If you're only interested in praise then I'll remove myself from the conversation.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #230
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
So you've considering my post inconsiderable. It was meant to be an aid for Kawai's marketing and future product development, not criticism. The design of this product isn't nebulous - we all get it - but customer feedback is typically valued within the structure of most companies and so it's a custom to provide these opinions. If you're only interested in praise then I'll remove myself from the conversation.
Christ, you're not the center of the world elambo. Look at the number of criticisms he's already addressed. You've repeated what tons of people have already said.
Maybe he's tired of repeating himself? Or maybe he was prepared to address the same issues, again, when he has the energy?

He's accepted all the concerns, and have simply said everything will be taken into consideration. However, how could anyone expect him not to defend a just released product from his company? Should he start dissing it, saying it's not worth it till V2 comes two years down the line?
Old 18th February 2013
  #231
Lives for gear
 
Bullseye's Avatar
More-like-a-real-piano- keyboards and controllers seems to be the direction things are going but I wonder if we are going about this the wrong way. Maybe we should be equipping pianos with midi control rather than midi controllers with piano keys. After all, the ultimate fell of the piano greatly involves the hammer hitting the string. If the strings were also able to transmit midi signals, well....

I realize this is probably a silly idea and defeats the whole purpose of virtual instruments but if this is meant to sit in a studio, why not a real piano with midi rather than a virtual piano with real keys.

Of course for live use, this would be much easier.
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #232
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hi elambo,

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
So you've considering my post inconsiderable.
No, I don't believe I wrote that. Thanking one individual for their post doesn't necessarily mean that your comments were ignored.

However, your post largely reiterated what a handful of others have already expressed - that they will not purchase a piano controller without pitchbend/modulation wheels. With that being the case, there wasn't a great deal more I could add to the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
It was meant to be an aid for Kawai's marketing and future product development, not criticism. The design of this product isn't nebulous - we all get it - but customer feedback is typically valued within the structure of most companies and so it's a custom to provide these opinions.
I've noted that all feedback is gratefully received on several occasions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
If you're only interested in praise then I'll remove myself from the conversation.
The reason I thanked James_Avery specifically for his 'considerate post' was largely because he took the time to explain his typical workflow, and why he prefers to use a smaller, secondary controller (with pitchbend/modulation wheels) to enter string parts individually. These 'real world' examples are incredibly valuable to hardware and software developers, as they provide insights into how their products are used on a daily basis.

Anyone can post "No ptchbnd = the sux0rz!" - they can even put a in there to be really clever, however this doesn't really stimulate a great deal of discussion, which is surely the purpose of forums such as GearSlutz.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #233
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye ➡️
More-like-a-real-piano- keyboards and controllers seems to be the direction things are going but I wonder if we are going about this the wrong way. Maybe we should be equipping pianos with midi control rather than midi controllers with piano keys. After all, the ultimate fell of the piano greatly involves the hammer hitting the string. If the strings were also able to transmit midi signals, well....

I realize this is probably a silly idea and defeats the whole purpose of virtual instruments but if this is meant to sit in a studio, why not a real piano with midi rather than a virtual piano with real keys.

Of course for live use, this would be much easier.
Price, for one. Space, another.
And there are pianos already that have midi capabilities. That's really not the point of a controller for virtual instruments though.
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #234
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hi powdered water,

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderedwater ➡️
This thread is quite fun to read. Some people seem offended, that something as well-thought-out wasn't made in thought of them personally.
This.

[insert John Lydgate quote here]

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderedwater ➡️
That said, I do hope for a pretty, affordable standalone solution. Can't be all that difficult. Little box, two wheels, some solder. I really signed up here only to second this request. Would be awesome.
Thanks for registering to post your your request.

I agree, it shouldn't be too difficult to make a standalone pitchbend/modulation wheel box - I thought the same. However, the reality of manufacturing is typically rather more complicated. Designing and developing a prototype is relatively straight-forward, but transforming the process to production can be costly, especially in relatively small quantities. I appreciate that there's demand out there (and not just from future VPC1 customers), it's just a case of trying to work-out whether the demand is sufficient to invest resources into such an accessory.

The same could also be said for a professionally made VPC1 furniture stand - really great idea on paper, but when you start looking at the numbers it becomes rather less attractive and financially viable.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #235
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye ➡️
More-like-a-real-piano- keyboards and controllers seems to be the direction things are going but I wonder if we are going about this the wrong way. Maybe we should be equipping pianos with midi control rather than midi controllers with piano keys. After all, the ultimate fell of the piano greatly involves the hammer hitting the string. If the strings were also able to transmit midi signals, well....

I realize this is probably a silly idea and defeats the whole purpose of virtual instruments but if this is meant to sit in a studio, why not a real piano with midi rather than a virtual piano with real keys.
As dbjp notes, there are already a number of acoustic pianos with MIDI functionality, however these tend to be big, heavy, and expensive (considerably more so than the VPC1...).

However, Bosendorfer developed something similar with the CEUS, and we also have the AvantGrand from Yamaha. Perhaps one day we'll eventually see a Yamaha N0 to compete with the VPC1? Good luck with the pitchbend/modulation wheels there though...

Cheers,
James
x
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #236
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Thanking one individual for their post doesn't necessarily mean that your comments were ignored.
Fair enough, James. It's not really worthy of a discussion since it has already been covered, but understand that anyone who has wished for a small tweak to your product (such as I have) might take issue with a remark like, "it's encouraging to read posts from musicians and composers who understand the true purpose of the VPC1," which suggests that we don't understand and are discouraging to Kawai. What's getting lost is that it's not an issue of understanding the product's intent -- as I mentioned, that much is very clear -- it's purely a hope that Kawai is listening and might eventually broaden their aim with additional, similar products. Yes, that has already been mentioned, but after reading quotes like the one above we're not left feeling confident that Kawai is truly listening to the potential marketshare which are not yet customers. Your participation here is appreciated. Obviously it's up to you to decide what to do with all of this.
Old 19th February 2013
  #237
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Thank you for your understanding elambo.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 20th February 2013 | Show parent
  #238
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Avery ➡️
Reading through this thread I do wonder about some of your workflows! Personally, I'm very excited about the VPC1, I do a lot of orchestral work with sample libraries, yet I'm delighted the VPC1 won't have a mod wheel. Why? Because I hardly ever use my 88 key controller (Oxygen 88) for mod wheel work, finding it much easier and more logical to use my 25 key Oxygen 25.

One of the keys to making convincing orchestral mock ups is to enter each instrument one at a time, so that each MIDI track has its own modulation info. The oxygen 25 is perfect for this, with its transpose button right next to the mod wheel. If you start using an 88 key controller to enter in multiple parts (say Violin 1, Violin2, Viola) in one pass, then each track is going to have the exact same modulation curve - thereby causing your mockup to be a lot less realistic.

Now, sometimes there's nothing more fun than to sit at my 88 key controller and fire up LASS 2 and get lots of voices going - but as we all know, to get lots of wide voices going you need two hands on the keys, so I assign modulation to my Yamaha FC7 expression pedal, thereby allowing my 2 hands the full use of the keys. The LAST thing you need when wanting to play multiple voices is for one of your hands to be busy using a mod wheel!

So I don't see the need of a mod wheel on the VPC1 for what I do, which I suspect is also what a lot of you do. But I am going to purchase the 'MIDI Solutions Pedal to MIDI Converter' so that I can use my expression pedal with the VPC1, then I can have fun with LASS 2 when I want to.

But really, I only ever play wide harmonies for fun or when I'm writing. I would never consider recording them with an 88 key controller in one pass - it just doesn't sound as good as entering each one individually.

The Oxygen 25 (or any other 25 key controller) is all one needs for entering in monophonic string lines - which is the way any mock up should be done in my opinion.

I applaud Kawai for having the sense to leave out the mod and pitch wheels - it looks beautiful. I'm placing an order with Thomann as soon as the European release date is announced. The keyboard action on the Oxygen 88 is terrible for playing piano VSTs so I can't wait to upgrade to the VPC1 - it's going to be quite a leap in quality I suspect!

Let's remember what VPC stands for... virtual PIANO controller. Not virtual INSTRUMENT controller.

And thank you to Kawai James for addressing peoples' questions and (completely nonsensical) complaints.
Nice to hear about other people's workflows. thanks for sharing.
I must admit, I do find it curious that you would assume that when other people use 88 note controllers that they trigger multitple layers at once.

My workflow is very similar to yours, orchestrating one instrument at a time.....but I prefer playing parts in using my Kawai MP-9500. As a trained pianist, I much prefer playing on a quality keybed whenever possible. I spend the majority of my life in that position behind that keyboard, I would like ti to be a good experience.

In addition, I get much better and more consistent velocity response (and mod wheel response) from the MP-9500 than I get from the budget conscious Oxygen keyboards, or from my Novation controllers.

I really do hope the new Kawai Controller takes off so that there may be some other options that may fit my own needs in the future. Love the company, love their products, Kawai James seems like a cool guy, and I'm hopeful there's a controller fit for me in the future.
Old 20th February 2013 | Show parent
  #239
Deleted ff086b4
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthdogg ➡️
Nice to hear about other people's workflows. thanks for sharing.
I must admit, I do find it curious that you would assume that when other people use 88 note controllers that they trigger multitple layers at once.

My workflow is very similar to yours, orchestrating one instrument at a time.....but I prefer playing parts in using my Kawai MP-9500. As a trained pianist, I much prefer playing on a quality keybed whenever possible.
I certainly love to play on a quality keybed too, but only when I'm recording piano VSTi parts. For synths, strings, and particularly drums, I prefer the bounciness of semi-weighted keys, so I use my Oxygen 25 for that.

My Oxygen 88 is great for interfacing with Pro Tools, considering the 8 faders and 8 knobs, transport controls etc., but I've been using the Studiologic SL990-XP for piano playing lately - though I'm sure the VPC1 will have much better keyboard action so I can't wait to purchase one!

To address your remark - I suppose i'm jumping to conclusions presuming people using an 88 key controller are all entering in multiple parts in one pass, but my main point was that if you're entering in monophonic lines then an 88 key controller is not needed. The 2 octave range of the Oxygen 25 perfectly does the job, only the odd time do I have to use the transpose key whilst entering parts, and even then its all very fluid because the transpose up/down buttons are right next to the mod wheel, so my left hand index finger can press the transpose button while the middle finger keeps moving the mod wheel.

So let me rephrase my point... we agree that orchestral mock ups are best made by entering one part at a time. And I think an 88 key controller is great for playing piano parts, but overkill for entering in monophonic instrument parts, hence I use my 25 key controller for doing that. So because I only use my 88 key controller for playing piano VSTis, I don't ever touch its mod wheel. Hence I'm not at all worried that the Kawai VPC1 doesn't have a mod wheel, and I'm looking forward to purchasing it for all my piano VSTi needs
Old 27th February 2013
  #240
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
It Really Is the Answer to Prayers of Purists

For those of us who were still using an Alesis QS8 to play Pianoteq, the Kawai product announcement for the VPC1 rings true - the "answer to the prayers" of keyboardists who want a real-feeling piano with wooden keys and a decent action. Plus it's a lot less than the $6000 it takes to buy a handmade Lachnit keyboard. I've ordered mine sight unseen, anyone can see that this keyboard totally rocks. Anyone who wants to diddle with a pitch or modulation wheel either needs to buy a Hammond organ or else stop whining about the lack of gadgets. I don't want pitch/mod wheels on this beauty, and I am glad that Kawai had the good sense to not mess up the clean design with a lot of doo-dahs and whirlygigs. If you want a wah-wah pedal or another modulator device, there are about a thousand midi devices (pedals, etc) you could buy. So please, naysayers, stop whining about this instrument - because that is what it is, not a giant calculator. I've owned Yamaha DX7 and other keyboards with a lot of buttons, but this is a real instrument. https://static.gearslutz.com/board/im...ilies/evil.gif
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