Quantcast
NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller - Page 5 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller
Old 28th January 2013
  #121
Lives for gear
 
27 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Nice, but my next keybord must have hd-midi.
Old 28th January 2013
  #122
Lives for gear
 
Pianolando's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Very cool product, but have to agree that it would be much more interesting with a well placed and discrete mod wheel.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #123
Gear Maniac
 
laughingbear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Thank you for your comments guys - clearly a lot of passionate opinions out there about pitchbend/modulation wheels. I'll definitely be passing them on to the VPC team.
Cool! Any chance that KAWAI can come out with an official statement as to wether they even consider to offer a solution, or whether it will stay as is. Spares the other 50% a lot of time to wait and "see"....

Thanks James
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #124
Lives for gear
 
mirrorboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Thank you for your comments guys - clearly a lot of passionate opinions out there about pitchbend/modulation wheels. I'll definitely be passing them on to the VPC team.

Just one thing I had to query though:



Sorry, I cannot agree with you there. I have a Nord Electro 3 sitting on top of an MP8II (soon to be replaced by a VPC1) at home. For acoustic piano and EPs, the MP8II action is gorgeous, but there's absolutely no way I'd consider playing organ on that action...unless I purposely wish to give my hands a work-out.

Just sayin'...

Cheers,
James
x
Hey James-

I think the main point to take from all this feedback is that having these two very simple and common features (pitch/mod wheel) takes this very product from being capable of controlling a piano VI to being capable of controlling any VI.

Those two small things unleash an enormous amount of potential.

Without them it's really only good for piano VI's. (I know it works with other things...but I think you get my point).

From all standpoints (business, creativity, workflow) it seems like it'd be a great move.


Thanks,

Scott
Old 28th January 2013
  #125
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Again, thank you for your comments guys.

We're still in the process of gathering all the feedback received at NAMM, so I'm obviously reluctant to make any kind of official statement.

However, I am curious though, purely on a personal level (i.e. nothing to do with Kawai) - how much would you expect to pay for a bespoke pitchbend/modulation wheel accessory?

Cheers,
James
x
Old 28th January 2013
  #126
Gear Addict
 
Sarrova's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
For that price, it should be there without an extra cost.

I even expected one software package of choice included for the same price (not all four like some mentioned, that would be ridiculous because many users would pay for stuff they already have or don't need. But one package of choice would be a great bonus for everyone).
Old 28th January 2013
  #127
Lives for gear
 
jamwerks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi James,

You guys will have to weigh the weight of the different comments. IMO, you guys nailed the design, with the flat top, low height and no controllers. For serious VI work these days, several faders are often wanted, so even if you had 2 on deck, I'd still need others. I use as Novation Zero SL MKII, and I'm sure it'll look snazy with the VPC.

IMO, installing controllers on top would be a mistake, since the unit often needs to fit in under a table-top, with just the keys sticking out.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #128
Gear Addict
 
Sarrova's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks ➑️
... IMO, you guys nailed the design, with the flat top, low height and no controllers ...
Yes, I also absolutely LOVE the design and classe of the instrument but I would have loved it even more if it was really FLAT and not curved at the top. Really flat so a laptop wouldn't move and shake when you play (I'll wait for the user reviews about this). I understand it's 'almost' flat and only slightly curved so controllers with 'feet' can be on top but why not completely flat if it's intended to use with a laptop / module / computer? I mean, it's not that completely flat costs more does it and you wouldn't scare people away with saying curved top. Would have been better imho. I'm planning to use this in my studio as a real instrument - so in the record booth and not underneath my desk - (also for rhodes and other plugins) so I need to have a laptop and some controllers on top of it.

Ohw and btw, for me personally, the mod and pitch wheels are not so much of an issue (have other controllers to fit on top) but I can understand why some people are questioning these omissions.

So for me it's excellent, but I really wish these 3 things would have been there for that price:
β€’ Completely flat top for laptops and controllers that don't have 'feet'
β€’ One software package of choice (out of the four mentioned) included or - if that's too difficult with rights, ... - maybe an included stand (now you have to add 200 for a decent stand)
β€’ pitch and mod wheels

Actually if I think about it:
If Kawai would sell the VPC-1 for 1450$ instead of 1850$ nobody would have to complain.
For that 400 you could buy one software package , a stand and maybe a very cheap controller.

Too compare:
Kawai's CN-24 costs 1222 euro (1650 dollar) for RH2 triple sensor with ivory touch, piano stand (a lot of wood here), a decent music stand, pedals and internal sounds + FX.
The 1850 dollar for the VPC-1 with just RH3 II (NOT GH) triple sensor with ivory touch and pedals seems a lot (no piano stand, no internal sounds or included piano software and no controls except for the keys).

But to remain positive:
I really like the product and applaud Kawai for being progressive and launching this very special controller keyboard.
I need the best keyboard action on a controller (Kawai VPC-1 with RH3 II - too bad it's not GH) to use with the best sounds (software) and no extra bells and whistles so this is a must buy for me.
Old 28th January 2013
  #129
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Sarrova, thank you for your comments.

Just a quick response before I call it a night...

I believe I may have mentioned this above (or elsewhere...), but it's worth repeating: If your preferred semi-weighted keyboard/microcontroller does not have feet on the bottom, I would suggest purchasing a sheet of rubber/foam pads from a hardware store (I bought some over here for around $1). This would give you the extra few millimetres of clearance to make the slightly curved top surface a non-issue. It would also serve to protect the paintwork from any scratches.

If we were to include just one of the packages with the VPC1, how would we decide? We'd probably receive more complaints from folks saying "Hey, why did you include Ivory II? I would have preferred Galaxy!" etc. Moreover, not all of the packages with approved touch curves are the same price.

A special stand is quite a nice idea, but only if the demand is there. It would be very expensive to produce a custom wooden stand if only a small number of VPC1 owners (which is already a relatively small market compared to standalone digital pianos/stage pianos) were to buy one.

As for pitchbend and modulation wheels...yeah, I know...

But anyway, thanks for the (mostly) positive feedback. I personally think the VPC1 is a great product, and am looking forward to receiving my own board in the near future - I'm debating whether or not to upgrade my Electro3 to the Electro4 first... It's certainly not a cheap board, but good quality and top of the range touch comes at a price.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #130
Gear Addict
 
Sarrova's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
I would suggest purchasing a sheet of rubber/foam pads from a hardware store (I bought some over here for around $1). This would give you the extra few millimetres of clearance to make the slighted curved top surface a non-issue. It would also serve to protect the paintwork from any scratches.
Yes of course, but it's sad to buy cheap foam for such an expensive and beautiful instrument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
If we were to include just one of the packages with the VPC1, how would we decide? We'd probably receive more complaints from folks saying "Hey, why did you include Ivory II? I would have preferred Galaxy!" etc. Moreover, not all of the packages with approved touch curves are the same price.
Okay I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
A special stand is quite a nice idea, but only if the demand is there. It would be very expensive to develop a custom wooden stand if only a small number of VPC1 owners (which is already a relatively small market compared to standalone digital pianos/stage pianos) were to buy one.
Agreed, but without a stand the 1850 $ for the VPC-1 is a little too high imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
But anyway, thanks for the (mostly) positive feedback. I personally think the VPC1 is a great product, and am looking forward to receiving my own board in the near future. It's certainly not a cheap board, but good quality (and top of the range touch) comes at a price.
Quality has it's price but if you look at my comparison with Kawai's own CN-24 (see above) you have to understand why some of us think 1850 is pretty steep.
Also, top of the range would mean GH action not RH3 II according to Kawai's own website.

Anyway, James I really have to thank you!
Not many manufacturers would put so much time and effort to answer so much questions and comments before the product has even been released. Really, thanks for all the patience and understanding you have. Me - and lots of other users - certainly appreciate that!
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #131
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Thank you for your comments guys - clearly a lot of passionate opinions out there about pitchbend/modulation wheels. I'll definitely be passing them on to the VPC team.

Just one thing I had to query though:



Sorry, I cannot agree with you there. I have a Nord Electro 3 sitting on top of an MP8II (soon to be replaced by a VPC1) at home. For acoustic piano and EPs, the MP8II action is gorgeous, but there's absolutely no way I'd consider playing organ on that action...unless I purposely wish to give my hands a work-out.

Just sayin'...

Cheers,
James
x
Yeh I agree with you, organ is much better on lighter keys, none the less having the option with one keybed is great
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #132
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Again, thank you for your comments guys.

We're still in the process of gathering all the feedback received at NAMM, so I'm obviously reluctant to make any kind of official statement.

However, I am curious though, purely on a personal level (i.e. nothing to do with Kawai) - how much would you expect to pay for a bespoke pitchbend/modulation wheel accessory?

Cheers,
James
x
considering it's built into keyboards by m-audio for under 150, which also includes 10 + faders for software control, i'd say $70... or there abouts max.

but definately not a price increase for the kawai, just an adjustment before they ship, :-)
Old 29th January 2013
  #133
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
One thing to consider: Serious piano players (classical and jazz ****'s) often don't want any knobs and doodads on their instrument. For people who choose this controller as a replacement for a grand piano when space/money is tight Kawaii made the right call in making look like a serious piano instrument rather than a synth...

For instance, I asked some of the folks at the music conservatory I work for and they said they would spend MORE for a piano controller without all the "synth" stuff added on... and many of them use Kontakt or other software pianos at home for practice (this is san francisco... everybody sold thier piano to pay rent )

*end devil's advocate
Old 29th January 2013
  #134
Sky
Lives for gear
 
Sky's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
@O-it-Hz, I must agree. I used to think that my 88 controller would require wheels and aftertouch as a bare minimum, but with the VPC1 I actually like that it doesn't, especially if adding AT affects playability of the keybed. This product plus Ivory is today's answer for how to park a 9' Steinway in the living room.

Regardless, judging from all the comments, Kawai has noted and responded to the high interest and demand for pro-quality controllers. The VPC1 appears to have concert piano nailed; now hopefully someone will launch a 49 or 61-key metal-and-wood equivalent for synth players, which is really where all the performance control features belong, imho.

Sky
Old 29th January 2013
  #135
Lives for gear
 
Pianolando's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I too wouldn't like lots of buttons, knobs and sliders, but imho a well placed mod wheel (and secondary maybe pich9 would make this so much more useful.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I understand the minimalist approach to make it look all sexy and stuff, but with some creativity, I'm sure you could place the the controller wheels in a hidden compartment. That way you don't ruin the aesthetic appeal for piano purists, but you can still cater to composers.

As it is, there is nothing in the market for composers except for the Doepfer or a two keyboard setup. A separate module for just the wheels is not an appropriate solution as it would add clutter, just like a second keyboard would.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #137
Deleted User #217854
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
However, I am curious though, purely on a personal level (i.e. nothing to do with Kawai) - how much would you expect to pay for a bespoke pitchbend/modulation wheel accessory?

Cheers,
James
x
I have never seen a separate wheel box, either from a mainstream company or custom, so I would pay a decent amount (a couple hundred bucks) for a high quality one. As long as it had a standard MIDI output, so it could be used with any board or MIDI interface. I hate the plasticy wheels found on most MIDI keyboards. Yamaha has nice wheels on their high end workstations and DPs.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #138
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks ➑️
Hi James,

You guys will have to weigh the weight of the different comments. IMO, you guys nailed the design, with the flat top, low height and no controllers. For serious VI work these days, several faders are often wanted, so even if you had 2 on deck, I'd still need others. I use as Novation Zero SL MKII, and I'm sure it'll look snazy with the VPC.

IMO, installing controllers on top would be a mistake, since the unit often needs to fit in under a table-top, with just the keys sticking out.
I agree with everything written here, I prefer the option of an additional fader box rather than having a bunch of controllers on the VPC.

I DO feel differently about wheels though. There aren't 3rd party options for wheels the way there are with fader boxes, and for experienced keyboard players there is nothing like having those wheels next to the keyboard to control our VI's. I even use them with my piano VI's to control parameters in Ivory.
I would be open to adding an additional "wheel" box if Kawai were to make something like that. I really like the VPC otherwise, price and all.
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #139
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
IMO

The product is perfect, except for no MOD/Pitch wheels. Wouldn't want any sliders, ect on it, other than the 2 wheels. I'd purchase it anyway and use my controller for CC1, ect.
Old 31st January 2013
  #140
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hello chaps,

It's interesting to read your additional comments regarding the pitchbend/modulation wheel topic.

Fingers crossed a solution can be found for those players that require this additional control.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 31st January 2013
  #141
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hello again,

Just a quick note to let you all know that the VPC website is now online at the following URL:

www.kawaivpc.com

(up-to-date Chrome/Firefox browser recommended)

We've tested everything thoroughly, so there shouldn't be too many bugs/typos, however if you spot any issues, I would be grateful if you could send a private message.

My apologies for the delay!

Cheers,
James
x
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone who is serious about piano knows the value of having a good weighted controller. Certainly this is a plus for playing acoustic piano, but often certain synth patches benefit as well played from a weighted keyboard. Then at other times you might want a plastic keyboard for electric solos, etc. w/o the weighted action. Nice if you can pick the best controller for the patch/sound. If I had to pick either weighted or plastic key action as my only controller, I would probably pick weighted (but that is just my piano bias).

I'm a fan of Roland gear, but the only Roland weighted keyboard I've played that I thought came close to a real piano was the V-piano. This has 3 optical sensors as well, and supposedly you can play rapid (e.g., hand over hand) figures (multiple notes on w/o a note off in between message). But I never actually tested that it transmitted MIDI that accurately.

The more pianist oriented web sites have threads comparing the old Roland V-piano (PHA-III weighted keyboard) with the new A88 controller. Some people say they can't tell the difference, others say the A88 is no match for the V piano keyboard. But apparently the A88 is a mod of the earlier PHA-II mechanism called "Feel G".

It would not surprise me that Roland has no intention of ever making the PHA-III V-piano keyboard available as a stand alone controller (and it may not be possible to do at a $1K price point or in a unit as small as the A88). I am still waiting to try the Roland A88 when it's in the showrooms in my area. It is kind of maddening however that Roland always seems to tweak the action on their PHA designs in each forthcoming digital piano and synth so you can't tell from one model to the next exactly what you are going to get (or when you should buy one).

But with the announcement of the Kawai controller, I am certainly going to wait to compare it to the A88 (I was disappointed by the weighted keyboards in the Fantom and RD series). I think Kawai is smart to go in the opposite direction from Roland's portable A88 design by offering what looks to be a more full cut mechanism (I hope the attached photo of the PHA-II gets uploaded).
Attached Thumbnails
NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller-pha_ii_ivory.jpg  
Old 31st January 2013
  #143
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
postfader, as noted earlier in the thread, I've played the A88's Ivory Feel-G action (also found on the RD-300NX and FP-4F), and yes, it's pretty good.

However, if I was given the choice between an A88 and a VPC1, I'd opt for the Kawai every time.
Of course, I am more than a little biased, but I say this as someone who has played the actions in both boards, and more importantly, as someone who will be purchasing a VPC1 for my apartment once they are introduced in Japan.

Nice picture though.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #144
Gear Nut
 
A.alden's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hey James,

Thanks for all the info!

Do you know if there's any way to get a copy of the VPC1's approved velocity curves for the the MP10?
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #145
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hi A.alden,

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alden ➑️
Do you know if there's any way to get a copy of the VPC1's approved velocity curves for the the MP10?
No, I don't believe so, as the MP10 doesn't support programming with editor software.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #146
Lives for gear
 
teamsterjim's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Shoot, I was hoping for a Roland V-Piano style video with Scientists in white Coats w/ Clipboards in a giant room with a stage, where a caged Pianist was being studied like an Iranian Space Monkey back from orbit.

Maybe just one Nuclear Physicist with a white coat, and then several people training on equipment like the Ageless Male ads.

So thanks for just the meat & potatoes without the wasteful production costs that make the Sheep clack thier Hooves in appreciation.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #147
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
You're welcome!
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #148
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I can't believe I woke up today thinking about this... the brain of a gearslut. I realized that I had written off the VPC1. Why? Because of the curved top! Every studio/music room needs more usable surfaces - at least every one I've seen. This controller could have the ultimate surface for a laptop, iPad, pencil and pad of paper, drink coaster .... the things you use with a controller keyboard.

SERIOUSLY, WHY IS THE TOP CURVED? The design even goes against the whole piano look. The main product shot with the laptop/netbook clearly shows that even that tiny computer would be unusable in that position - the front foot is hovering in space. Makes me wonder what other design blunders I would discover after buying this expensive controller. Frustrating because it looks almost perfect for me.
Old 8th February 2013
  #149
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
First, I would not recommend placing your drink on top of any controller - coaster or no coaster.

Second, it's really not that curved:



You can see Jordan has his iPad, mouse mat/mouse on there, and there's still space for a pad and paper, and perhaps another MIDI control surface.

Here's a link to the video, btw:

Jordan Rudess Improvisation Part 2 o 3, The NAMM Show 2013. - YouTube

Cheers,
James
x
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #150
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
This photo actually illustrates how frustrating this design is. It looks to me like that's an unstable surface for Jordan's iPad - if he starts tapping on it it would be rocking back and forth - I would find that annoying. That mouse pad being curved doesn't look ideal to me either. If I want to put my 15" MacBook Pro on there I'm going to have to prop up the front to get a stable surface... even if I put a flat rubber mat on that it will be too curved for all 4 of my laptop's feet to make contact.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 2519 views: 419793
Avatar for Whitecat
Whitecat 1st March 2011
replies: 343 views: 79930
Avatar for Ziko123
Ziko123 11th October 2018
replies: 66 views: 4835
Avatar for adydub
adydub 8th December 2020
replies: 1 views: 459
Avatar for m36
m36 15th September 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump