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NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #61
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Unfortunately, there were a few last minute hiccups with the website, so we have decided to postpone the opening by a few days to ensure that everything is working as it should.

Thank you for your patience.

Kind regards,
James
x
Hey James, If that hiccup would bring the price down by few hundred dollars, then take as much hiccup-days as you need

No seriously, one aspect of this controller is still vague to me, I know there are no speakers, but is there an audio output on this thing? or do we rely on the PC audio out for that as well? which would suck for an "out of the box" solution!
And any chance we we would see an optional stand similar to the one for the ES7?

Thanks,
Wave 1
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inceptic ➑️
It looks beautiful. Too bad it doesn't have pitch/mod wheels.

Also, does it include the four piano libraries? Or are those sold separately?
Thank you for your positive feedback regarding the VPC1's design - I will certainly pass on your comments to the VPC team.

The principle concept of the VPC1 is to offer the finest virtual piano playing experience by combining an ultra-realistic keyboard action with developer approved touch curves inside an attractive, minimalist package. As demonstrated by the comments in this forum and several others, the omission of pitchbend/modulation wheels appears to split players more or less 50-50.

The VPC1 ships with developer approved touch curves for four popular virtual piano packages (the touch curves are stored in the VPC1's internal memory), however the piano software itself is not included. Many virtual piano players already own one or two of these packages, so for these users it wouldn't make sense for them to pay extra for something they already own.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Phaidon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Unfortunately, there were a few last minute hiccups with the website, so we have decided to postpone the opening by a few days to ensure that everything is working as it should.

Thank you for your patience.

Kind regards,
James
x
No worries James.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
As demonstrated by the comments in this forum and several others, the omission of pitchbend/modulation wheels appears to split players more or less 50-50.
So you basically LOSE 50% of your market by NOT including a pitch bend and mod wheel.

Include the pitch bend and mod wheel, and I don't think any hardcore piano players would care. It's not like it would be in the way of anything. That way you appeal to 100% of your target market.

Instead you DIDN'T include a pitch bend / mod wheel, and the result is instantly losing a large group of potential customers.

Pretty ****ty business decision, imo.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrova ➑️
Ouch ... didn't expect it to be that expensive.
I expected something like 1600 $ AND one piano library of choice included for free.

I understand quality has it's price but still ...
Anything over $1,000 should be considered theft.

The Roland A-88 is an imamculate feeling controller (Ivory feel fully weighted) and it includes a pitch bend / mod wheel plus d-beam...

...and it's only $999


Sorry, but this product is terribly overpriced. I'll go ahead and sit back and watch the failure commence.

Meanwhile, once the Roland A-88 stock picks up, I'm jumpin' on that bad boy.

Moral of the story...buy an A-88.
Old 25th January 2013
  #66
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Addixion, thank you for your feedback.

I've yet to try the Roland A-88 for myself, however I am reasonably familiar with the RD-300NX and FP-4F which I believe utilise the same 'Ivory Feel-G' keyboard action.

As a general purpose MIDI controller, I'm sure the A-88 performs very well. However, I believe it occupies a slightly different segment of the market to the VPC1, which is purely a piano focussed controller.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave1 ➑️
No seriously, one aspect of this controller is still vague to me, I know there are no speakers, but is there an audio output on this thing? or do we rely on the PC audio out for that as well? which would suck for an "out of the box" solution!
Yes, the audio is produced by the computer and output to your headphones/speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wave1 ➑️
And any chance we we would see an optional stand similar to the one for the ES7?
I'm not aware of any immediate plans, but it's certainly a great suggestion which I'll happily pass on to the development team. Incidentally, there's a great shot of a beautifully hand-made wooden MP10 stand on if you search Google Images...

Cheers,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Addixion, thank you for your feedback.

I've yet to try the Roland A-88 for myself, however I am reasonably familiar with the RD-300NX and FP-4F which I believe utilise the same 'Ivory Feel-G' keyboard action.

As a general purpose MIDI controller, I'm sure the A-88 performs very well. However, I believe it occupies a slightly different segment of the market to the VPC1, which is purely a piano focussed controller.

Kind regards,
James
x
I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a "piano focused controller". Those are called digital pianos.

I beg you to tell me what is different about the VCP1 that makes it the only "piano focused controller" in the history of controllers?

I mean, if the A88 isn't a "piano focused controller", I would like to know why.

Fully weighted ivory feel keels...in the shape of a piano... 88 keys... sure sounds like a "piano focused controller" to me..

Is it because they added a MW / PB & d-beam?

If so...then what you're saying is... the VCP1 is a better piano based controller because it is lacking important functions that don't relate to the piano. Somehow adding a pitch bend / mod wheel would suddenly remove it from the "piano focused controller" category?

I mean...

The midi saxaphones and midi drum kits....sure...not piano focused controllers... but if it's got 88 keys, and aligned exactly like a piano, then I think your statement is total bull****.

So I don't buy this **** - " believe it occupies a slightly different segment of the market to the VPC1, which is purely a piano focussed controller."

Wrong.

1. They are both midi controllers.

2. They are both fully weighted.

3. They both feature ivory feel keybeds.

4. They both have 88 keys.

5. One has a pitch bend, mod wheel, and D-beam controller.... one does not

6. One is significantly lighter than the other.

6. One cost almost double the price of the other.

I think you're just trying to come up with excuses, because the reality for this controller is too harsh.

I honestly find it offensive that the price is so high. If it were closer to $999 you wouldn't hear so much criticism... or if you wouldn't try to come up with stupid bull**** like "it's a piano focused controller"
Old 25th January 2013
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Mardi Gras's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This thing is so expensive!!

Sent from my GT-I8160
Old 25th January 2013
  #70
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Addixion, really, I don't feel it's necessary to get involved in an argument over this.

Some consumers will purchase the A-88, others will purchase the VPC1, another group will opt for a Fatar-based controller. To be honest, I think it's great to see a variety of different boards catering to virtual instrument users.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #71
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a "piano focused controller". Those are called digital pianos.
..
then I think your statement is total bull****.

So I don't buy this **** - " believe it occupies a slightly different segment of the market to the VPC1, which is purely a piano focussed controller."

Wrong.

1. They are both midi controllers.

2. They are both fully weighted.

3. They both feature ivory feel keybeds.

4. They both have 88 keys.

5. One has a pitch bend, mod wheel, and D-beam controller.... one does not

6. One is significantly lighter than the other.

6. One cost almost double the price of the other.

I think you're just trying to come up with excuses, because the reality for this controller is too harsh.

I honestly find it offensive that the price is so high. If it were closer to $999 you wouldn't hear so much criticism... or if you wouldn't try to come up with stupid bull**** like "it's a piano focused controller"
Hey Addixion you really don't have to use this language here.. no matter how angry you are. You wanna Punish Kawai, don't blame James for it, just don't buy the keyboard.. that should cause them enough pain for making the wrong marketing decisions.

and James,
I agree with Addixion's logic, and what's more, if I am going to add the cost for the extra audio interface, the speakers, the stand, the sample libraries, an extra controller to take care of the mod and pitch wheels, then this shouldn't have been priced out of the league of most home users.. don't you agree?

Bottom line, for a niche product I think Kawai just made a terrible decision pricing this at this level, as the people who wants it can't afford it and people who can afford it don't want it!!

My 2 cents,
Wave1
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
I mean, if the A88 isn't a "piano focused controller", I would like to know why.
Because the action kinda sucks. (Subjective, I know.) Also, for those software pianos that Kawai is specifically supporting, you'd have to come up with a suitable velocity curve. It may not be the easiest thing to do. Especially on an action that kinda sucks. ;-)

(edit: I should mention that I'm basing my opinion of the action only from having played an FP-4F.)
Old 25th January 2013
  #73
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Wave1, thank you for your comments.

It has been mentioned in other forums, but it's perhaps worth repeated here: in the US the MP10 currently sells for $2500, while the VPC1, with a superior action will sell for $1849. I personally don't believe this is too expensive. It's not cheap, certainly, however I believe the quality of the board justifies the price.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013
  #74
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
Wave1, thank you for your comments.

It has been mentioned in other forums, but it's perhaps worth repeated here: in the US the MP10 currently sells for $2500, while the VPC1, with a superior action will sell for $1849. I personally don't believe this is too expensive. It's not cheap, certainly, however I believe the quality of the board justifies the price.

Kind regards,
James
x
Hi James,
Thanks.. After checking the Kawai page on key actions, I am under the impression that the MP10 action (RM3 Grand) has 3 sensors (http://kawaius.com/main_links/digita...tions2010.html).. So what does RM3 Grand II adds? any document that relates to that?

thanks,
Wave1
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
Phaidon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
Anything over $1,000 should be considered theft.

The Roland A-88 is an imamculate feeling controller (Ivory feel fully weighted) and it includes a pitch bend / mod wheel plus d-beam...

...and it's only $999


Sorry, but this product is terribly overpriced. I'll go ahead and sit back and watch the failure commence.

Meanwhile, once the Roland A-88 stock picks up, I'm jumpin' on that bad boy.

Moral of the story...buy an A-88.
Easy tiger.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #76
Deleted User #217854
Guest
I'm fine with the price if this controller is as excellent as the other Kawai stuff I have used (which I don't doubt that it is).

Echoing some of the other posters' thoughts though, the sole aspect that will be keeping me from this controller is the lack of pitch and mod wheels. This is very disappointing, and an oversight, especially since Kawai's MP series has them.

A top of the line 88 key controller is already a niche product. Without pitch and mod wheels, it makes it even more niche. The 88 key Doepfer controller is popular with media composers, especially in Hollywood. In terms of overall quality, I bet this new Kawai trounces that controller. But the Kawai lacks wheels, which are the bare essentials for an all use controller. I understand that this is being billed as a piano controller, but again, that is missing a whole other part of the market that would be interested in such a classy controller.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitals ➑️
IA top of the line 88 key controller is already a niche product. Without pitch and mod wheels, it makes it even more niche.
Apart from strictly piano players, I wonder how many people would have this as their only controller anyway. I'd still want an unweighted action for synth work, and I'd certainly have the wheels there, so really, I wouldn't miss them on a weighted 88.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave1 ➑️
After checking the Kawai page on key actions, I am under the impression that the MP10 action (RM3 Grand) has 3 sensors (Kawai Digital Piano Actions - The Touch of a Grand Piano).. So what does RM3 Grand II adds? any document that relates to that?
wave1, the original 'RM3 Grand' action used in the MP10 is a 2-sensor system. The new 'RM3 Grand II' action used in the VPC1 is a 3-sensor system. Moreover the key frame construction has also been improved.

Please compare the two images below:





I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Regardless of my previous words.... I sure would like to play one.


It's just that price point.... ouccch.
Old 25th January 2013
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
This looks beautiful. If it feels as good as it looks, then I'd view it as an investment in a quality instrument. People spend a lot more on workstations that become dated over time. It will always sound as good as the latest libraries and isn't disposable. I really like it!
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #81
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexgrignon ➑️
This looks beautiful. If it feels as good as it looks, then I'd view it as an investment in a quality instrument.
That's certainly a valid point. I suppose if you're looking for something to potentially last you 10-20 years then the $1800 price point might not be so bad after all.

This would be a really great center piece to build a production desk around. You could fit a mixing board on top / in front of it and still have space for a/v monitors...but then...there's that missing pb / mw thing... deal breaker for me personally but I'm sure plenty of people will like the way it feels enough to pick one up. Hopefully they'll hear the consumers and slap in the wheels for Summer Namm or Winter 2014.
Old 25th January 2013
  #82
Gear Maniac
 
Virtuoso's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Pass. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a VPC2 with pitch/mod wheels and HD-MIDI.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #83
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
This product looks great. And thanks for leaving off the wheels. That's so 20th century.

All you guys wanting mod/pitch wheels just look no further than that smart phone in your pocket and wirelessly connect your virtual mod wheel app to your computer that you already need for this product anyway,
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
dudleys100's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
WOH adickxion!!!

Time to take your Klonazepam
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
 
13 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➑️
It has been mentioned in other forums, but it's perhaps worth repeated here: in the US the MP10 currently sells for $2500, while the VPC1, with a superior action will sell for $1849. I personally don't believe this is too expensive. It's not cheap, certainly, however I believe the quality of the board justifies the price.
Still, that is a lot of dough for a controller without internal sounds. I'm sure you guys did your homework and identified your target market, but at that price point there are good alternatives available, and they come with sounds.

I didn't get my hands on it today, but will check it out tomorrow. Looking forward to it!
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Maniac
 
laughingbear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Good Morning,

a few questions and comments:

As for build quality, what material is the casing made from? Plastic? Wood?

What is KAWAI's warranty offer on this board? I mean if it is a tank, build to last even the rather virtuous, many hours per day performers, I would expect that to be reflected in a seriosuly extended warranty, especially at the somewhat short below 2k price tag.

James, I am curious how you would describe the difference to the MP10 mechanics in terms of expressive playability. How do you feel about this?

As for mod/pitch, well, I would agree with some comments here, put it this way, if I were to be Mr. or Ms. Kawai ... so to speak... there would be a board meeting in no time and with some pretty serious questions. It is a very questionable business decision to narrow your market that much, in other words, it's plain wrong, but I am holding out until we hear back from KAWAI whether they consider to offer a solution, or not.

Oh, one more thing, will the MP10 be equipped with the advanced mechanics too?

Best
Georg
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #87
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just to add to what was already said.
The omission of pitch/mod literally kills it for me. I'm a classically trained pianist working with many different virtual instruments,some requiring the use of pitch/mod. My hands are used to the real piano keyboards and up until now I've never been satisfied with the controllers I had. When I first heard of this I thought this might be the answer to my endless search.
However, I do NOT want to buy myself a premium made keyboard like this only to have to buy yet another small plastic junk piece of a midi controller keyboard to use for pitch and mod. I do not want to have several midi keyboards. Especially if I'm about to pay that much for one of them. This is just plain wrong IMHO.
To anyone suggesting using other controllers (not keyboards)..how are you supposed to do pitchbend with a fader or a rotary knob? Using ios devices for this is also joke. To me, the pitch bend is VERY dependent on tactile feedback. While I've been quite happy using my ipad for cc1/cc11 with an XY controller it would be impossible for me to use it for pitch bend.
My 0.2
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Addict
 
andow's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Looks really nice, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by utopia_48 ➑️
The omission of pitch/mod literally kills it for me.
sorry...
Old 25th January 2013
  #89
Lives for gear
 
jamwerks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
With 3 hours a day of playing, + several hours composing and programming, controllers have been lasting 3-4 years for me. Seems it's the sensors below the keys that give. If this thing had a 3-5 year guarantee, that might justify the price.

Looks fantastic. And I must say, people that do bending and such, usually want synth action (not hammer action), and have multiple smaller controllers for that playing.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #90
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks ➑️
Looks fantastic. And I must say, people that do bending and such, usually want synth action (not hammer action), and have multiple smaller controllers for that playing.
All I can say is that I do bending and such and I also HATE synth action. I'm really not sure I'm the minority here. Even if so, there are quite a few people who seem not happy with this.
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