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NAMM: Kawai VPC1 Virtual Piano Controller
Old 22nd May 2014 | Show parent
  #361
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Thank you once again for the positive feedback Andrew.

As I suggested to jp2011 in a separate thread, it may be worthwhile raising your articulation-related queries over on the Pianoworld forum, which is arguably more piano-oriented than GearSlutz.
OK, thanks for the suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
No. At least, not yet.
This implicitly implies that it is in development and expected at some point?? Or am I just being hopeful?
Old 22nd May 2014 | Show parent
  #362
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter ➡️
This implicitly implies that it is in development and expected at some point?? Or am I just being hopeful?
I'm afraid there is nothing currently in development, however I believe there are a number of users who would appreciate a Windows/Mac editor for the MP11 and MP7. If such a project was green-lighted, I expect a velocity curve editor similar to the VPC software would also be implemented.

Please note that this is just my opinion - I am not stating that Kawai has concrete plans to develop an editor.

On a side note, there are a number of VST plugins available that allow similar velocity in/out adjustment which you may also consider if you decide to transition over to the MP11.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 22nd May 2014 | Show parent
  #363
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
On a side note, there are a number of VST plugins available that allow similar velocity in/out adjustment which you may also consider if you decide to transition over to the MP11.


sure, of course. And most of the VIs themselves have curve editors. But, and IMHO it is a rather large but(t) (think Sir MixALot size ), the point of your internal curve editor is that we are operating on data before it is translated into MIDI 0-127 range I assume? Am I wrong? I guess your hardware sensors operate at something greater than 7-bit resolution? The ideal is to remap at this native higher resolution and then translate this to 7bit MIDI resolution at the end before the data leaves the controller. It seems to me this is how your software is working even though on the GUI both the input and the output are specified as 7-bits.

Using some transfer function to remap the 7-bit MIDI data after it leaves the VPC is not ideal, as it can result in the loss of resolution in the velocity data. It is much better to do inside the VPC/MP11, assuming things work as I suspect they do...

Basically IMHO the "MIDI space" should be linear, whereas the initial physical velocity to MIDI value transfer function should probably NOT be linear.

(sorry if this is getting too geeky - I am a developer myself as mentioned - and happen to deal with these sort of topics fairly often in different contexts...)
Old 22nd May 2014
  #364
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I'm afraid I do not know the technical details, however I agree that adjusting the touch curve 'inside' the instrument is the preferred method.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 23rd May 2014
  #365
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kosi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi James,
I have a question about the triple pedal controller: The sustain pedal (cc64)produces continuous data, like a slider, that I move up/down. But I would like to have is an on/off only (value 0 or 127) Can I and if where, change this behavior ?

thanks,
Andreas
Old 24th May 2014 | Show parent
  #366
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosi ➡️
The sustain pedal (cc64)produces continuous data, like a slider, that I move up/down. But I would like to have is an on/off only (value 0 or 127) Can I and if where, change this behavior ?
Hmm...I don't think it's possible to change the damper pedal behaviour in this way.

However, one option might be to reassign the damper pedal to either the soft or sostenuto pedals, which are on/off switching pedals. This can be achieved using the VPC Editor, or simply teaching your VI software to use a different pedal.

Another option might be to put some kind of MIDI filter VST between the VPC1 and the VI software. That redirects all values from 1-64 as 0 and all values from 65-127 to 1. This would achieve the single switching type behaviour that you're looking for.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 24th May 2014
  #367
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kosi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thanks James !
Old 25th May 2014
  #368
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Kawai James:
First of all I want to commend you guys at Kawai for making such an amazing controller...It's amazing.
I know there is no mention of a VPC2...but the "1" in VPC1 sort of implies it could be possible. If that is a future possibility I have a couple wishes.
My dream would be for the VPC2 to have the following:
1. The capability to download my favorite piano software (like a Ravenscroft) into the VPC2 so I have the choice to simply turn on the power to my piano controller and play right away as opposed to having to turn on my computer and all that. Don't get me wrong... I want that capability too...but not all the time. Sometimes I want to quickly sit down and play piano without having to deal with my computer too. Imagine if the VPC2 had your favorite downloaded piano already on it. If the VPC2 also has a couple audio outputs (speakers / headphone) think of how simple, clutter free and easy it would be to just play the best piano of one's choice...but also have the same capability as the VPC1 where you could conect to the computer to do all the other cool things the controller can do.

2. If possible... it would be wonderful if the cables coming out of the back of the controller were on the bottom as opposed to the top. Right now I can see them... But why? I don't want to see the plugs coming out the back if I don't have to. That is minor...but it really seems like the designers of this controller had simplicity and uncluttered in mind..

So both my wishes I believe are in perfect harmony with the designer's goal of clean, simple and uncluttered. Please remember that having my lap top on the top of the keyboard is way more "cluttered" than being able to simply turn on the keyboard and play my favorite piano with either a head set or some nice speakers. Thank you for considering my imput on this amazing controller.
Thank you.
Old 26th May 2014
  #369
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Bernoulli, thank you positive feedback and great suggestions for future VPC models.

We'll certainly bear these ideas in mind when planning the next VPC!

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 19th June 2014 | Show parent
  #370
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cinealta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
The GF action has a longer pivot distance than the RM3 Grand/RM3 Grand II action....The CA95/CA65 and CS10/CS7 are currently the only models to feature the GF action.
Hello Kawai James,

I thought the longer pivot point in the GF action was too long to fit inside the MP-series case? Is the MP11 case larger than the MP10 case? If not, does the MP11 have a GF action with a shorter pivot distance than the CA95/CA65 series but longer than the RM3 Grand II?

Also, if the GF action can fit in the MP11 case, could it not also fit in a VPC-1 case? Thx for clarifying.
Old 19th June 2014 | Show parent
  #371
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hello cinealta,

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta ➡️
Is the MP11 case larger than the MP10 case?
Yes, it is deeper and a little taller.

MP11: 1380 (W) x 453 (D) x 188 (H) mm
MP10: 1380 (W) x 428 (D) x 185 (H) mm

[Full MP11 vs MP10 comparison here.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta ➡️
...does the MP11 have a GF action with a shorter pivot distance than the CA95/CA65 series?
No, the CA95/CA65 and MP11 keyboard actions are identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta ➡️
if the GF action can fit in the MP11 case, could it not also fit in a VPC-1 case?
No, the GF action is too big for the VPC1/MP10 case, hence the MP11 uses a larger case.

I hope this answers your queries.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 19th June 2014 | Show parent
  #372
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
No, the CA95/CA65 and MP11 keyboard actions are identical.



No, the GF action is too big for the VPC1/MP10 case, hence the MP11 uses a larger case.

I hope this answers your queries.

Kind regards,
James
x
Does Kawai have the expertise to implement Polyphonic Aftertouch underneath the VPC-1 hammer mechanism without compromising the weighted key action?...and how much would that increase production costs? Perhaps Polyphonic Aftertouch only belongs on semi weighted controllers anyway.

Also Waterfall keys are always preferable to standard piano keys for doubling as an organ controller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Actually, you're not the first person to recommend a standalone pitchbend+modulation wheel accessory, and I doubt you'll be the last.

This would certainly be a niche accessory for an already highly niche product, however I will certainly pass on your suggestions to the VPC development team.
Intelligent accessories should not be niche, but standard. Kawai development team should take a modular approach making all future products compatible with all accessories. The optional Accessory board(s) could theoretically plug into a dedicated slot on the left side of all new products with similar form factor to the Roland A88
A-88: MIDI Keyboard Controller | Roland U.S.

You could have options for a traditional pitch/bend wheel accessory, a Korg style combined Pitch / Mod Lever accessory, pressure sensitive Pitch and Mod touchstrips as found on the Dave Smith Tempest, pressure sensitive XY pads, touchstrips etc.
Dave Smith Instruments :: Tempest Analog Drum Machine
Old 19th June 2014 | Show parent
  #373
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hi electro,

Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Does Kawai have the expertise to implement Polyphonic Aftertouch underneath the VPC-1 hammer mechanism without compromising the weighted key action?
I'm not sure. The last Kawai instrument to feature aftertouch was the K5000, produced almost two decades ago - I believe that was monophonic, not polyphonic aftertouch.

Kawai's priority for keyboard action design is to reproduce the feeling of a grand piano as closely as possible. While aftertouch is undoubtedly useful for synth playing and expressive strings, woodwind, brass etc., it is not a priority for a piano controller such as the VPC1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Perhaps Polyphonic Aftertouch only belongs on semi weighted controllers anyway.
I'm inclined to agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Kawai development team should take a modular approach making all future products compatible with all accessories.
I like the idea of modularity, but it can be expensive to develop and manufacture - especially when the quantities are relatively small. Again, we are talking about niche products.

Cheers,
James
x
Old 20th June 2014 | Show parent
  #374
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Perhaps Polyphonic Aftertouch only belongs on semi weighted controllers anyway.
Yes, aftertouch is only needed on a synth keybed not a grand piano keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Also Waterfall keys are always preferable to standard piano keys for doubling as an organ controller.
Why do you want to turn a grand piano keyboard into an organ controller? It shouldn't be a jack of all trades, master of none. The market is littered with that already. Kawai's competitive strength is a grand piano feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
You could have options for a traditional pitch/bend wheel accessory, a Korg style combined Pitch / Mod Lever accessory, pressure sensitive Pitch and Mod touchstrips as found on the Dave Smith Tempest, pressure sensitive XY pads, touchstrips etc.
Why on earth would you want pitch/bend and synth controllers on a grand piano keyboard? Just get a cheap non-weighted keyboard to control organs, synths, pan flutes etc. Kawai is building a grand piano controller and those of us who play actual Steinways, Bluthners, Bosendorfers, Yamahas, Mason & Hamlins etc, appreciate that. The Roland A-88 is a toy.
Old 20th June 2014 | Show parent
  #375
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta ➡️
Kawai is building a grand piano controller and those of us who play actual Steinways, Bluthners, Bosendorfers, Yamahas, Mason & Hamlins etc.
...and Kawais.

Old 20th June 2014 | Show parent
  #376
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
...and Kawais.
Nice!
Old 20th June 2014 | Show parent
  #377
Lives for gear
 
littledoodler's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Hello cinealta,



Yes, it is deeper and a little taller.

MP11: 1380 (W) x 453 (D) x 188 (H) mm
MP10: 1380 (W) x 428 (D) x 185 (H) mm

[Full MP11 vs MP10 comparison here.]



No, the CA95/CA65 and MP11 keyboard actions are identical.



No, the GF action is too big for the VPC1/MP10 case, hence the MP11 uses a larger case.

I hope this answers your queries.

Kind regards,
James
x
They should make a VPC case too
Old 7th July 2014
  #378
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littledoodler's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I received my VPC1 on Friday, and ran into problems with the key bed. Initially key A5 was sticking pretty bad. It stopped sticking, but is still really clunky and makes clicking noises. Four other keys in succession make these clicking noises when depressed. Kind of a drag that I have to send this thing in for repair already, because I LOVE the action on the rest of the keys. The sensitivity is phenomenal and I really enjoy how quiet the keys are.
I have contacted Kawai US and they haven't got back yet, but this was a holiday weekend. The retailer that I bought it from are backordered until August 7th, so I might just exchange it when they get that back in stock.
Old 8th July 2014 | Show parent
  #379
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I know people have been complaining about whatever (eg headphones) is being placed on top on the VPC1 is falling off. Maybe - if VPC2 also is coming with a rounded top, Kawai could make a product which could be placed on the rounded top and make it flat. Like some kind of large rubber (?) thing which is flat on the top, but not at the bottom.

Other than that, I think at least a modulation wheel or even a single fader would make a future version of product a lot more useful. If it could have one fader (which I would prefer) or a mod wheel - which could be assigned to and MIDI CC #, it would become a lot more interesting for people who want a great piano controller and who compose music on a computer and need to enter eg CC#1 or CC#11 in order to make the results sound realistic. Such a fader could also be used as a mod wheel, but with more detailed control.
Old 8th July 2014 | Show parent
  #380
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️

If we were to include just one of the packages with the VPC1, how would we decide? We'd probably receive more complaints from folks saying "Hey, why did you include Ivory II? I would have preferred Galaxy!" etc.
x
That's easy. Just ignore those who want a Galaxy over Ivory II. :-)
Old 8th July 2014 | Show parent
  #381
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio ➡️
Maybe - if VPC2 also is coming with a rounded top, Kawai could make a product which could be placed on the rounded top and make it flat. Like some kind of large rubber (?) thing which is flat on the top, but not at the bottom.
What benefit could a rounded surface possibly have over a flat surface which allows you to stack other equipment on top?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio ➡️
I think at least a modulation wheel or even a single fader would make a future version of product a lot more useful. If it could have one fader (which I would prefer) or a mod wheel - which could be assigned to and MIDI CC #, it would become a lot more interesting for people who want a great piano controller and who compose music on a computer and need to enter eg CC#1 or CC#11 in order to make the results sound realistic. Such a fader could also be used as a mod wheel, but with more detailed control.
I disagree with a fader which will only clutter something like a piano controller. VPC-1 is very sleek and to the point. There are plenty adequate knob boxes to add all the faders and dials you need and a flat top is the perfect place to rest it.

Standard Pitch and Mod Wheels however are not a bad idea. The Dave Smith Tempest has 2 lit pressure sensitive ribbon strips which may be even better than traditional Pitchbend / Mod wheel system. The form factor of Roland's A-88 is well done.
Old 8th July 2014 | Show parent
  #382
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
What benefit could a rounded surface possibly have over a flat surface which allows you to stack other equipment on top?
None (except less clutter on the top :-) ). But the decision for VPC1 seems to be made from a design/looks perspective, and if that's the case for VPC2 as well, and it will have a rounded top, I still want a solution which makes it flat - for placement of clutter, sheet music, headphones, tablets etc.



Quote:
I disagree with a fader which will only clutter something like a piano controller. VPC-1 is very sleek and to the point. There are plenty adequate knob boxes to add all the faders and dials you need and a flat top is the perfect place to rest it.
It wouldn't bother me, visually, and I think a fader is a better solution than a mod wheel for accuracy. But a pitch/mod wheel solution would be better than nothing as well. Maybe it would be possible to place them in such a way that they could be covered by some sort of lid for those who don't need them or how they look. That could possibly be a solution for the top as well: make it flat by default, with a rounded lid which makes it...well, rounded. Or it could be flat with rounded edges/corners.
Old 8th July 2014
  #383
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littledoodler's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The top is really not that round at all. You could easily put a rubber mat on top and put your laptop on it.
Old 8th July 2014 | Show parent
  #384
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio ➡️
It wouldn't bother me, visually, and I think a fader is a better solution than a mod wheel for accuracy. But a pitch/mod wheel solution would be better than nothing as well. Maybe it would be possible to place them in such a way that they could be covered by some sort of lid for those who don't need them or how they look. That could possibly be a solution for the top as well: make it flat by default, with a rounded lid which makes it...well, rounded. Or it could be flat with rounded edges/corners.
Those two pressure sensitive touch sliders on the Dave Smith synths are barely visible.
Dave Smith Instruments :: Prophet 12 Polyphonic Synthesizer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio ➡️
That could possibly be a solution for the top as well: make it flat by default, with a rounded lid which makes it...well, rounded. Or it could be flat with rounded edges/corners.
The top should be flat to mount a 2nd tier controller the same key distance as a Upper B3 manual.
Old 4th August 2014 | Show parent
  #385
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littledoodler's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I received a replacement VPC1 this week. Well, the clicks are gone in the white keys, but the three top black keys are experiencing trouble on this one. It sucks that they are having quality control problems on these, 'cause like I said, the action is pretty phenomenal. Also, the front bar that runs just under the keys is out of line with the keys. I tried contacting Kawai twice now and they are nowhere to be found. I am going to call them, I guess.
Old 4th August 2014 | Show parent
  #386
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Hi littledoodler,

Sorry to hear about the issues you're experiencing with your VPC1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler ➡️
the three top black keys are experiencing trouble on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler ➡️
the front bar that runs just under the keys is out of line with the keys.
It's possible that the two characteristics are related - perhaps caused by rough shipping?

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler ➡️
I tried contacting Kawai twice now and they are nowhere to be found.
May I ask which method you used to contact Kawai?
If by email, which address, and when did you send the message?

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler ➡️
I am going to call them, I guess.
Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 4th August 2014 | Show parent
  #387
Lives for gear
 
littledoodler's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawai James ➡️
Hi littledoodler,

Sorry to hear about the issues you're experiencing with your VPC1.





It's possible that the two characteristics are related - perhaps caused by rough shipping?



May I ask which method you used to contact Kawai?
If by email, which address, and when did you send the message?



Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x
I tried [email protected] and [email protected]
Old 4th August 2014 | Show parent
  #388
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler ➡️
Yes, I believe those should both work. I don't know why you've yet to receive a response, however I'm confident that when you give the folks at Kawai America a call you'll receive great support.

Kind regards,
James
x
Old 8th September 2014
  #389
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Does anyone here how much the Ravenscroft 275 mod for VPC1 costs?
Old 9th September 2014
  #390
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I'm not sure about just the mod, however according to Andrew Spreeman in the video below, the modded VPC1 units are available at $3,999.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiHdWc5LAfA

Kind regards,
James
x
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