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MOTU Digital Performer v. 8 shipping
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #211
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
So...that said, I do have one suggestion - why not contact MOTU directly with your complaints, instead of bitching about it on GS?
Why don't you ask those specific people if they already did contact MOTU about that (some have) before assuming they didn't? Some actually did. I did. I asked - as a 12+ year multiple hardware customer - for a copy of the pdf manual so I could investigate some things on my own before deciding to "loan" them $400 to demo, to read in-depth about it first, they said no.

That's something else where DP kinda stands alone. Many of those other product's manuals are online for anyone to download and read... to get into all the little details. Wanna know something about Nuendo that's not on YouTube? Download the manual and look it up.

Like you said, the demo for X2 isn't available yet but the manual is online already so you can answer some of your own questions ... Cakewalk - Documentation & Help - SONAR X2 - Table of Contents

And again... it's not "bitching" ... it's a common expectation and some people were surprised by it, that's all. Again, they didn't know (Win users) because it was never a Win app and they didn't ever think about demoing it anyway. What you're seeing is surprise, not bitching.

Looks like a great app. Users are here telling everyone how great it is, getting people more interested, and it looks really great, but... they can't try it? ... so some will react to that because they do want to try it.

That's all. It's not bitching. Sorry for the mini-rant, I just got tired of people repeatedly saying "But you also can't demo X?", when it's kinda really untrue.

Anyway, it's a really great looking app. I hope they're really successful with it... the Win version.
Old 5th October 2012
  #212
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Agreed about not putting the PDF manual online, with a demo they have to worry about copy protection issues but there's really no reason not to make the manual available. Particularly since it's going to get distributed anyway, whether they want it to be or not.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #213
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
Many of those other product's manuals are online for anyone to download and read... to get into all the little details. Wanna know something about Nuendo that's not on YouTube? Download the manual and look it up.
For many years, MOTU used the printed DP Manual as their way of copy protection. That's why they never offered pdf manuals in the past.

If you want to run the Nuendo trial, you need a USB dongle, as it uses hardware copy protection. No joke. They are stuck in 1998.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #214
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
you need a USB dongle, as it uses hardware copy protection. No joke. They are stuck in 1998.
Yes, I know. You actually missed my point though... which was "accessibility" and nothing else.

Anyone can buy at $24 dongle to demo a $2000 app so... no big deal there. Many people already have them (and iLoks) but those who don't and who'd rather not buy one to test can still download the manual before deciding if they want to spend $24 on a dongle to demo. And those are the only two who use dongles, Cubendo and PT.

No big deal. It is what it is. Consumers will always individually make up their own minds about stuff like that and vote with their wallets either way.

Not sure why anyone thinks I'm knocking MOTU, I'm not. I like MOTU. I'm just pointing out what many of it's DP Mac users don't seem to actually know, that not having a product demo is really an anomaly of sorts ... a bit unusual... that's all.

I like MOTU products a heck of a lot actually. My studio runs on their hardware and I've hardly ever had any issue with any of it. Absolutely love Mach 5 v3.

So let's end the "counterpoint" thing. It is what it is (inaccessible) and consumers will individually do whatever they think is best when they spend their money. No point in trying to rationalize that in various ways.

I can't believe that anyone didn't know that thousands of potentially new Windows users would be asking for a demo. That simply could not have been a surprise to anyone.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #215
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
Anyone can buy at $24 dongle to demo a $2000 app so... no big deal there.
I guess you missed my point too

Hardware copy protection does not motivate the users who are willing to pay for software, it inconveniences them. Biting the hand that feeds you is quite stupid as a company policy, IMHO.

Putting a dongle on a demo inconveniences possible customers even earlier in the decision process.

I have owned dongle protected software once, many years ago - making the same mistake again is not an option. Choosing between dongle protected SW and software that is protected by a serial (DP), authorization key (PSP), or bound to your email address (Logic) is a no-brainer...
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #216
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I wasn't aware you had changed the subject to copy protection methods since you replied to my comments about demos. In the larger world outside of DP, one thing has nothing to do with the other really.

Copy protection is often the same for demo users as it is for paid users, in that world... whatever it is in any given place. But current customers with dongles can still demo before upgrading?

But yeah (?) hardware dongles are more of a hassle than not having a dongle and two daws (the only 2?, the minority) among the many, many native daws have dongles. Agree. Not sure of the relevance but I agree, I'd rather not have a dongle than have one.

If your point was to just put a positive checkmark in the column for DP because (?) you felt it was being attacked or something, a positive check for not having a dongle, agree.

The overwhelming majority actually don't have dongles so... they are not common at all.

If you're saying the DP manual itself is considered it's copy protection, uh... Ok.

Never mind. This is an endless cycle. People always need to defend when DP itself doesn't need any defending. The context was about - company policy - of no demos, nothing about the actual great DP DAW itself or any copy protection methods. Never mind.

Dongles kinda relatively suck. I do agree with you. You win.
Old 5th October 2012
  #217
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
No dongle is a good thing. But I'd say a demo that requires a dongle is better than no demo at all, especially since I have both of the major dongles already.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #218
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcohn ➡️

Any of you 10+ years guys have any tips, pitfalls, or things unique to DP that you could point me to would be highly appreciated...I'm thirsty for the knowledge!! I haven't been this excited about a DAW since Ableton Live... weird, I know since it's been around so long, but I feel like several holes in my system possibly just got filled...

Mark
I probably should have read the rest of the thread to see if this is a double post, but -

MOTUNATION

specifically:

MOTUNATION - The Digital Performer Tips Sheet

the "Tips Sheet"

A very tight-knit community over there of users. Just don't ask about a pdf manual...

oh wait, it's not a big deal anymore!
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #219
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️

A very tight-knit community over there of users. Just don't ask about a pdf manual...
That's a very, very polite way of putting it. The self appointed piracy police over there will treat every new poster with suspicion.

It's a good place 'to watch', a few very knowledgeable members over there, but I gave up on posting a long time ago...
Old 6th October 2012
  #220
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spaceman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Who knows ... maybe Motu is perfectly happy with the number of users they have and don't need new owners. Wich explains why they wouldn't make any efforts to get new users. Maybe all they want is to sell updates to existing users , and don't care about selling new copies.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #221
Here for the gear
 
markcohn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
I probably should have read the rest of the thread to see if this is a double post, but -

MOTUNATION

specifically:

MOTUNATION - The Digital Performer Tips Sheet

the "Tips Sheet"

A very tight-knit community over there of users. Just don't ask about a pdf manual...

oh wait, it's not a big deal anymore!
Awesome, man...Thanks! I've checked that one out quickly before, but never saw the tip sheet, that'll definitely come in handy...
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #222
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Can one of you guys grab this small application... Cockos Incorporated | LICEcap

.... and post some small gifs of DP? The things I'm most curious about are the various workflows...

- Bouncing Instruments
- Track Groups, Hiding Tracks
- Navigating through plugins
- Bouncing stems
- Re-ordering and Replacing FX instances

Stuff like that, but mostly related to mixing workflow. Small gifs don't take up much disk space and can attached directly to posts with the [img] tags, I'd appreciate seeing some of that stuff in realtime.

Thanks guys. Appreciated.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #223
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
That's a very, very polite way of putting it. The self appointed piracy police over there will treat every new poster with suspicion.

It's a good place 'to watch', a few very knowledgeable members over there, but I gave up on posting a long time ago...
This is very true...the MOTU policeman's name is James Steele...
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #224
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
That's a very, very polite way of putting it. The self appointed piracy police over there will treat every new poster with suspicion.

It's a good place 'to watch', a few very knowledgeable members over there, but I gave up on posting a long time ago...
i'd say that's a fair assessment.

they are definitely dicks to noobs, well some of them are - i can think of a few members

but there are fewer penis measuring contests there, unlike here so it's got that going for it

and the wealth of knowledge there is pretty substantial. i've stolen many a workflow from the depths of unicornation lol i mean motunation
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #225
kdm
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
It's a good place 'to watch', a few very knowledgeable members over there, but I gave up on posting a long time ago...
Ditto on giving up posting there. And it will probably best for the DP8/Windows user base to start a new DP/MOTU forum elsewhere.

There is a lot of DAW knowledge around but it seldom comes from DAW users isolated to one DAW for 20 years as the views tend to be isolated to a specific way of thinking. There is a lot to learn from spending in depth time with more than one DAW, and seeing how each one approaches a specific task.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #226
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trock's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just loaded DP 8 up on an older 2008 mac pro 2.8 octo running the latest OSX

running it in 64 bit

no issues at all.

love love love the themes. now i gotta dig into the workflow which is very different than cubase. i am SO happy to have inserts and sends and an EQ and COMP on each channel

so so so happy

It loaded and found my artist controllers perfectly with no setup, and it mapped my yamaha n12 perfectly

fingers crossed

gotta learn some things like multi timbral out for omnisphere, RMX, SD2, Komplete 8 etc

and how do you move the master fader all the way to the left ? lol
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #227
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trock ➡️
and how do you move the master fader all the way to the left ? lol
Just click on the bottom of the mixer channel you want to move and drag it to wherever you want!
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #228
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trock's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
get the heck out!

well how bout that. some things seem so deep and complicated and then BAM, something so simple i never thought to try!

thanks!
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #229
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
That's a very, very polite way of putting it. The self appointed piracy police over there will treat every new poster with suspicion.
That's not even close to true. It takes your personal experience (which may be true) and generalizes it to a universal that is just inaccurate. Motunation is a very welcoming site.

The people that do get treated with suspicion over there are people who show up with two posts, claim to own the program and then ask questions like, "How do you set up midi with a VI?" or "How do you edge-edit a soundbite?" - in other words, questions that are SO basic that you get the sense that anyone who has the manual - and has made even a half-effort to look through it to find the answer - would never ask that question.

Even then, members are very cautious about accusing someone outright. They usually let the moderator (James) come along and politely, privately confirm with them that they own the program.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience there, but it really isn't fair to generalize like that. Given the amount of knowledge about the program available there, I'd encourage those interested in learning the fine points of using DP or with questions about it to head over.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #230
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm ➡️
Ditto on giving up posting there. And it will probably best for the DP8/Windows user base to start a new DP/MOTU forum elsewhere.
Sure, if one likes reinventing the wheel. If not, that isn't an especially sensible idea.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #231
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trock ➡️
get the heck out!

well how bout that. some things seem so deep and complicated and then BAM, something so simple i never thought to try!

thanks!
Ur wiggum.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #232
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
The people that do get treated with suspicion over there are people who show up with two posts, claim to own the program and then ask questions like, "How do you set up midi with a VI?" or "How do you edge-edit a soundbite?" - in other words, questions that are SO basic that you get the sense that anyone who has the manual - and has made even a half-effort to look through it to find the answer - would never ask that question.
That's definitely not what I saw over there. I remember that Steele deleted posts with links and technical details about Fragmentation of HFS+ Volumes, to name just one example...

Last edited by stratology; 8th October 2012 at 10:30 PM.. Reason: typo..
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #233
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jamwerks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
Just click on the bottom of the mixer channel you want to move and drag it to wherever you want!
Now that we're on that subject, can you freely rearrange the order of tracks in the mixer? And is there any correlation between the order of tracks in the "Arrange" window (Logic user here) and the Mixer window?
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #234
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks ➡️
Now that we're on that subject, can you freely rearrange the order of tracks in the mixer? And is there any correlation between the order of tracks in the "Arrange" window (Logic user here) and the Mixer window?
You can freely re-arrange tracks in the mixer, and you can show/hide each individual track, so you can just show a vocal track, 2 aux tracks and the master if you're mixing vocals, for example.

The order of the tracks in the mixer is the same as in the 'Sequence' (=Arrange) window.

Also make sure to check out the Meter Bridge, no such thing in Logic..
Old 7th October 2012
  #235
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
The order of the tracks in the mixer is the same as in the 'Sequence' (=Arrange) window.
I believe you can turn off that correlation
If you want to. So that the order of tracks is different in the tracks overview window and mixing window...
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #236
Pastor Obviedo
Guest
users of DP8, hows everything working so far? I'm waiting to hear your experience to make my jump from Nuendo to digital perf (one more time). the features on motu's web site look appealing but I want to make sure this version is stable.
do you recommend me to pull the trigger?


PO.
Old 8th October 2012 | Show parent
  #237
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureLegends ➡️
I believe you can turn off that correlation
If you want to. So that the order of tracks is different in the tracks overview window and mixing window...
You're right, it's in the Mixing Board's mini menu, 'Lock Layout to Track Order'.
Old 8th October 2012 | Show parent
  #238
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
That's definitely now what I saw over there. I remember that Steele deleted posts with links and technical details about Fragmentation of HFS+ Volumes, to name just one example...
I don't understand. There are current threads over there on all sorts of topics about SSDs, computer configuration and whatnot. None of it gets deleted. Some of it is quite generally related to DAW usage, not to DP specifically. How long ago was this - are you sure he didn't just move it to another topic area?
Dunno, I've never seen something like that occur.
Old 8th October 2012 | Show parent
  #239
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
I don't understand. There are current threads over there on all sorts of topics about SSDs, computer configuration and whatnot. None of it gets deleted. Some of it is quite generally related to DAW usage, not to DP specifically. How long ago was this - are you sure he didn't just move it to another topic area?
Dunno, I've never seen something like that occur.
I agree. James owns Motunation, that's why he's the admin. As far as I'm concerned, he's more than welcome to delete or move anything he wants,
it's his board, and he works hard to maintain it.

That said, I've seen James delete posts by total dickheads who deserved it.
But I've never seen him delete things without good reason, nor have I seen him treat any newcomers with "suspicion". Political and
religious posts are banned, again I'm cool with that. Oh yes, if you post
anything about Reaper, you will see Reaper printed as R****r. This I also
agree with this because IMO Motunation is not a Reaper forum. That would
be here, or maybe KVR.
Old 8th October 2012 | Show parent
  #240
Lives for gear
 
henge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
. Oh yes, if you post
anything about Reaper, you will see Reaper printed as R****r. This I also
agree with this because IMO Motunation is not a Reaper forum. That would
be here, or maybe KVR.
Too bad there's no working bit bridge in D*****l P*******R.
R*****R has a very soild bridge and I need to combine both 32 bit and 64 bit plugs!
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