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MOTU Digital Performer v. 8 shipping
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #181
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lysander's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
Dp doesn't automatically compensate for latency induced by this kind of D/A/D round-tripping. You have to use a latency plugin or measure the latency and nudge soundbites by the correct number of samples.

it's a pain to do hybrid mixing that's for sure. but if you just want to use DP to feed a mixer/summing engine, with it's own aux sends and inserts, it's a piece of cake.
Really? Wow that's a bit of a cold shower. Seems silly as it woud be an easy thing to implement.
What about sending midi from DP to a hardware synth and recording the audio, would that also not be compensated? That would be quite a dealbreaker.
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #182
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henge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
Dp doesn't automatically compensate for latency induced by this kind of D/A/D round-tripping. You have to use a latency plugin or measure the latency and nudge soundbites by the correct number of samples.

it's a pain to do hybrid mixing that's for sure. but if you just want to use DP to feed a mixer/summing engine, with it's own aux sends and inserts, it's a piece of cake.
Drag!
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #183
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thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge ➡️
Drag!
Yep, that'll hold the program back a bit.
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #184
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lysander ➡️
Really? Wow that's a bit of a cold shower. Seems silly as it woud be an easy thing to implement.
What about sending midi from DP to a hardware synth and recording the audio, would that also not be compensated? That would be quite a dealbreaker.
Well to be clear:

You can certainly send audio out to a piece of outboard and record it back in without having to do any shifting in DP. I do this all the time, reamping for example.

For a hybrid setup, where you need to hear what's going on ITB 100% in time with what is going through outboard it's not so easy.

To do this you have to have your outboard gear wired to an interface that allows for zero-latency hardware monitoring. like MOTU CueMix FX. Once you are happy with the way a track going through outboard sounds, you can print the track, no shifting required. DP has ADC.

What you CAN'T do is send audio out to outboard, and then have the outboard feeding a live AUX track within DP without latency. This is essentially monitoring through the software. You have to use a latency inducing plugin. Basically the plugin reports a false latency value on the track to the DAW, shifting all other tracks back to compensate. The latency changes depending on buffer size, just like if you were recording vocals through plugins etc.

Outboard MIDI is not an issue...DP is rock solid for all MIDI use.

There is a dialog box where you can input a value, in samples or ticks I can't remember to calibrate and sync up outboard MIDI with everything happening ITB. I've never had to use it. the default value seems pretty solid to me.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #185
Gear Addict
 
NotVeryLoud's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trock ➡️
Will DP 8 allow me to import a stereo wav file and split it into 2 mono files?

i sometimes work with loops that area click on the left and music on the right and i need to add to them so i need to split that file to 2 mono tracks

cubase does it on import to project

thanks
I believe the answer is NO. Not in DP 7 at least. Been using DP for 10+ years, and if this feature exists, I've been doing it the hard way for a long time. It would be a nice.

My workaround is to either split the track outside of DP using a 2-track editor, or import the stereo track, pan hard left and bounce+import mono, then pan hard right and bounce+import mono.

Likewise, you could duplicate the stereo track, and using MOTU's Trim tool to mute the right channel of one track and the left channel of the other track. Not quite the same though.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #186
Gear Addict
 
Kubilay's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Actually, you can de-interleave fairly easily in DP - in the soundbites window, select convert audio file and select de-interleave. Be sure to not have DP replace the original. You can even automate that on import.

Problem is, DP still treats dual mono always like an interleaved stereo file - if you now want to be able to drag one side into the project as true mono file, or run the two sides side-by-side in two mono tracks, you have to rename them in the Finder to get rid of the .L and .R before DP will understand what you are trying to do.

But you can save yourself the trip to the external audio editor.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #187
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubilay ➡️
if you now want to be able to drag one side into the project as true mono file, or run the two sides side-by-side in two mono tracks, you have to rename them in the Finder to get rid of the .L and .R before DP will understand what you are trying to do.
and that renaming to get rid of .L .R extensions is a trivially simple task to automate with Automator (Mac) or any macro software.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #188
Lives for gear
 
henge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
Well to be clear:

You can certainly send audio out to a piece of outboard and record it back in without having to do any shifting in DP. I do this all the time, reamping for example.

For a hybrid setup, where you need to hear what's going on ITB 100% in time with what is going through outboard it's not so easy.

To do this you have to have your outboard gear wired to an interface that allows for zero-latency hardware monitoring. like MOTU CueMix FX. Once you are happy with the way a track going through outboard sounds, you can print the track, no shifting required. DP has ADC.

What you CAN'T do is send audio out to outboard, and then have the outboard feeding a live AUX track within DP without latency. This is essentially monitoring through the software. You have to use a latency inducing plugin. Basically the plugin reports a false latency value on the track to the DAW, shifting all other tracks back to compensate. The latency changes depending on buffer size, just like if you were recording vocals through plugins etc.

Outboard MIDI is not an issue...DP is rock solid for all MIDI use.

There is a dialog box where you can input a value, in samples or ticks I can't remember to calibrate and sync up outboard MIDI with everything happening ITB. I've never had to use it. the default value seems pretty solid to me.
Good to know!
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #189
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
Dp doesn't automatically compensate for latency induced by this kind of D/A/D round-tripping. You have to use a latency plugin or measure the latency and nudge soundbites by the correct number of samples.

it's a pain to do hybrid mixing that's for sure. but if you just want to use DP to feed a mixer/summing engine, with it's own aux sends and inserts, it's a piece of cake.

Not a pain at all for me. I have the FREE plugin, Latency Fixer. I determined what my round trip latency is, input that into Latency Fixer, which is on the appropriate aux send(s). Latency Fixer reports the delay to DP's ADC, and I'm done, forever.

I've got several digital and analog hardware units set up this way permanently, in what Digital Performer calls "V-Racks". I can have the the V-Racks as part of a template, or I can call them up later into any project, and it's all instantly ready to go.. a very elegant solution.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #190
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thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts ➡️
Not a pain at all for me. I have the FREE plugin, Latency Fixer. I determined what my round trip latency is, input that into Latency Fixer, which is on the appropriate aux send(s). Latency Fixer reports the delay to DP's ADC, and I'm done, forever.

I've got several digital and analog hardware units set up this way permanently, in what Digital Performer calls "V-Racks". I can have the the V-Racks as part of a template, or I can call them up later into any project, and it's all instantly ready to go.. a very elegant solution.
Cool, good to know. And the latency amount is the same regardless of buffer size?
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #191
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➡️
Cool, good to know. And the latency amount is the same regardless of buffer size?
No. It changes. It is a pain IMHO at least compared to how other DAWs handle inserting outboard gear in otherwise itb mixes. I've also found that different projects with same buffer size can need different amounts of latency fixing depending on the number and type of plugins that are running.
Old 3rd October 2012
  #192
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
That's a little surprising given some of the other really cool stuff on the bigger feature list.

Most just have a simple plugin for that, which makes the connections directly (no bus routing) and pings the send return path to automatically get the latency. So - assuming you have dedicated I/O you use for hardware - just drop a plugin on a track to insert a hardware comp or something.

Anyway, all these products have their little oddities.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #193
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rhizomeman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Might sound kind of silly but my favorite new feature of DP 7 and now more with DP 8 are the "themes". LOVE being able to change the entire look of my working environment when I feel like it. The darker themes are awesome since it bothers my eyes staring at bright colors for hours on end.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #194
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
That's a little surprising given some of the other really cool stuff on the bigger feature list.

Most just have a simple plugin for that, which makes the connections directly (no bus routing) and pings the send return path to automatically get the latency. So - assuming you have dedicated I/O you use for hardware - just drop a plugin on a track to insert a hardware comp or something.

Anyway, all these products have their little oddities.
Yea, it's no deal breaker for me. I have my workflow w/ outboard set, but it involves a bit of work to get right. I wouldn't mind MOTU including a ping style insert plugin for this in the future-it's the only feature I desire from other DAWs. I tried cubase for a while but sold it, I just hated the way it handled mixing. Pro Tools would be fine if not for the high cost of ownership.

As for themes, I too first thought it was a gimmickey thing. But being able to change themes is nice on the eyes. And you can use a different theme depending on the type of project you are working on, for inspirations sake. Sometimes staring at the same grey for 200+days a year gets OLD
Old 3rd October 2012
  #195
181483
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
As for themes, I too first thought it was a gimmickey thing. But being able to change themes is nice on the eyes. And you can use a different theme depending on the type of project you are working on, for inspirations sake. Sometimes staring at the same grey for 200+days a year gets OLD
Yes, absolutely. I had this realization today. The default DP theme really gets boring. Really digging the MoTools.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #196
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➡️
Cool, good to know. And the latency amount is the same regardless of buffer size?
Well, to be honest, I never change my buffer size.. I thinks it's on 256 but it's been so long I don't remember. I track through an analog console, so I don't have some of the latency issues affecting pure ITB users.
Old 3rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #197
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rhizomeman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimey1 ➡️
As for themes, I too first thought it was a gimmickey thing. But being able to change themes is nice on the eyes. And you can use a different theme depending on the type of project you are working on, for inspirations sake. Sometimes staring at the same grey for 200+days a year gets OLD
Cool - glad someone else feels the same. Yea, I use different themes depending on the project. It's fun!
Old 3rd October 2012
  #198
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lysander's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah themes are nice, I spend a lot of time programming for my job and changing the theme of a text editor or an app you use for hundreds / thousands of hours a year is always refreshing.
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #199
Gear Addict
 
dirtboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji ➡️
It was confirmed that MOTU will give you a refund within 30 days, so you have that time to try it.
Still a pain to do.They really need to put a demo online.
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #200
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Got it two days ago.

Coming from PT and Logic, it's like being a right handed guitarist and playing with a left handed guitar. I've spent the last couple evenings just trying to do basic stuff, but it's coming.

Overall impression is very good, it really is like a Pro Tools/name the DAW hybrid. Does a lot of damage, but I'm really trying to get a handle on the sidebar menus which are deep and a bit confusing.

Also my Avid Transport...well, STOP works, but if you press the key assigned to FAST FORWARD or REWIND DP just takes off, and pressing STOP on the MC Transport does nothing. Have to click the mouse on the DP stop button. Don't know if that's a MOTU or an AVID problem. Otherwise my Artist Mix seems to work fine.

The Axiom keyboard controller I have will play notes in, but I can't get the mod wheel to do anything, nor the volume fader. DP ignoring them.

Themes....too cool. Mine is almost black now lol....one slick DAW. Still need to spend more time of course, and haven't gotten into the video side yet (I do a lot of music to video) which should be pretty wonderful..

Will report back soon..

TH
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #201
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Solar's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtboy ➡️
Still a pain to do.They really need to put a demo online.
Motu marketing is based on I believe year 2000 style exactly the way Magix use to use have resellers like Syntax for people to rent or exactly buy and then get refund back.

I'm sorry, although I respect their almost old fashion way but they need to wake up and live and apply year 2012, should say 2013 model.

As many will and have agreed, a DEMO in today's music world technology is a number REQUIREMENT for God sake. All the major DAW Dev have theirs Online
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #202
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #203
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➡️
Overall impression is very good, it really is like a Pro Tools/name the DAW hybrid. Does a lot of damage, but I'm really trying to get a handle on the sidebar menus which are deep and a bit confusing.

That's a pretty good way of describing it. A lot of features work very similar to Pro Tools, editing, fades, grouping, the mixing board.

But it features a full notation editor, drum editor, consolidated midi editor (all midi tracks in one lane), and other views that remind me of other DAWs.

So yea, audio recording and mixing gets handled in a very "PT" way. Performer, back in the 80's was a MIDI program only, used for scoring primarily. So the MIDI implementation today is definitely geared towards those wanting to do orchestral mockups and music for film/video. If you want a "block" style MIDI workflow, DP is not for you. You can use Reason or Live for that kind of thing. That said I make electronic music w/ DP all the time. It's just a little different than the whole "drag blocks around" kind of thing.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #204
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar ➡️
Motu marketing is based on I believe year 2000 style exactly the way Magix use to use have resellers like Syntax for people to rent or exactly buy and then get refund back.

I'm sorry, although I respect their almost old fashion way but they need to wake up and live and apply year 2012, should say 2013 model.

As many will and have agreed, a DEMO in today's music world technology is a number REQUIREMENT for God sake. All the major DAW Dev have theirs Online
Disagree. There is no demo of Logic9. There is no demo of the full version of Cubase. There is no demo of Sonar X2. There is no demo version of Adobe Audition.

You meant to say that there is a demo version of Pro Tools, Studio One, and Reaper, right?
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #205
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Solar's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
Disagree. There is no demo of Logic9. There is no demo of the full version of Cubase. There is no demo of Sonar X2.

You meant to say that there is a demo version of Pro Tools, Studio One, and Reaper, right?
Well let me also completely disagree with you and your statement. Are you trying to imply that all the honest people here that pay for their software and plugins thats what they're after? To Try a DAW and keep using it because they can't afford paying for it? Come on mate, take a pill and relax.

And I can see that you already Edited what you wrote before regarding people here awaiting or looking to download a Demo and not pay for it. Or do you think that we don't know or they (the company that decides to put their DAW Demo online) that they will get cracked one day or another? Come on, we all know how it all goes down at the end. But there is a reason they are putting Demos for Demonstration.

You should get your fact rights (including regarding DAWS Company that have their Full Demo online etc...) and then start writing anything here.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #206
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trock's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am coming from mainly a cubase background but i have never gotten on with it all that well. i mean, its very powerful and does some things easily and some things not so easily

like, well, anything

but for ME i have always loved how PT looks, i like an old style mixer look

so far from having DP 7 and now 8 and learning it slowly on the side, its very very deep. it however does somethings, for me, very complicated as well.

one thing i need to learn is to use Mach5 which i also have a s a loop broswer, syn'd to my project. i loved mediabay in cubase and there is nothing like that in DP

i look at DP as almost a very powerful PT/Nuendo/ABleton

its very good for audio and midi, its great for POST and its very very good for LIVE

so its going to take a Longggggg time, for me at least, to learn it

i am still using cubase primarily cause i can work fast in it, but this time with DP8 i am going to transition fully
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #207
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
Disagree. There is no demo of Logic9. There is no demo of the full version of Cubase. There is no demo of Sonar X2. There is no demo version of Adobe Audition.

You meant to say that there is a demo version of Pro Tools, Studio One, and Reaper, right?
Absolutely dead wrong except for the obvious, Logic.

X2 doesn't have a demo - yet - because it just got released and they always release their demo sometime after the new product release. Steinberg does the same with a brand new product. Presonus has in the past released their demo before the product was even for sale, before you could even buy it, but it usually gets posted at the same time, since it's the same file people buying will download while they wait for UPS to bring the box of stuff that they don't even need anymore since they downloaded and installed it all already.

They do it differently but they all do it (demo) ... so your facts are incorrect.

Cubase and Nuendo - both the full versions, Adobe (everything they make afaik), and yes Sonar, all have demos. Even PT has a demo. I have the Nuendo 5 demo right now. That's a $2000 application. Both Samplitude & FL Studio also both have demos. Did I leave anything out? SAW Studio, $2500, yep, demo. i almost forgot Ableton Live, yep, demo.

Logic and DP are (afaik) the only two native workstations without demos now. Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, the list goes on and on. Those without demos are the exceptions now, not the rule.

Windows users don't care about Logic because they can't run it? It's only $199 now so not as much risk there anyway. They didn't care about DP much either for the same reason, they couldn't run it so not having a demo was moot ... until now.

Which is why people are asking. It's not a gripe, it's an - expectation - and a reasonable one based on the actual current market.

Anyway, if MOTU doesn't want to provide a demo that's their choice. I 'aint mad at 'em. But people really need to stop trying to excuse it by pointing elsewhere for similar examples (other than Logic, which costs way less than DP?), because it just 'aint true.

DP literally stands - totally alone (afaik) - as the only $500 list price native daw with no product demo.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #208
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
Absolutely dead wrong except for the obvious, Logic.

X2 doesn't have a demo - yet - because it just got released and they always release their demo sometime after the new product release. Steinberg does the same with a brand new product. Presonus has in the past released their demo before the product was even for sale, before you could even buy it, but it usually gets posted at the same time, since it's the same file people buying will download while they wait for UPS to bring the box of stuff that they don't even need anymore since they downloaded and installed it all already.

They do it differently but they all do it (demo) ... so your facts are incorrect.

Cubase and Nuendo - both the full versions, Adobe (everything they make afaik), and yes Sonar, all have demos. Even PT has a demo. I have the Nuendo 5 demo right now. That's a $2000 application. Both Samplitude & FL Studio also both have demos. Did I leave anything out? SAW Studio, $2500, yep, demo. i almost forgot Ableton Live, yep, demo.

Logic and DP are (afaik) the only two native workstations without demos now. Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, the list goes on and on. Those without demos are the exceptions now, not the rule.

Windows users don't care about Logic because they can't run it? It's only $199 now so not as much risk there anyway. They didn't care about DP much either for the same reason, they couldn't run it so not having a demo was moot ... until now.

Which is why people are asking. It's not a gripe, it's an - expectation - and a reasonable one based on the actual current market.

Anyway, if MOTU doesn't want to provide a demo that's their choice. I 'aint mad at 'em. But people really need to stop trying to excuse it by pointing elsewhere for similar examples (other than Logic, which costs way less than DP?), because it just 'aint true.

DP literally stands - totally alone (afaik) - as the only $500 list price native daw with no product demo.
Ok, I stand corrected. You're right about the other companies' demos. I
wasn't aware these were available.

So...that said, I do have one suggestion - why not contact MOTU directly with your complaints, instead of bitching about it on GS?
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #209
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
SAW Studio, $2500
Holy crap, why would anyone pay that much for what appears to be a DAW comparable to any other??? What the heck does it do, write the music for you?
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #210
Here for the gear
 
markcohn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just got my DP8...

I'm actually one of the rare ones, I guess, as I'm new to DP, though I've been sequencing since 1986. I've used just about every other DAW out there except DP at one time or another, and now that I've been playing with it for a day, I can already see maybe I should've given it a closer look years ago. My situation and workflow may be different from a lot of people, but I wanted to mention a few "aha" moments that came up in my first day / first impressions running it.

First, I can confirm that there IS a pdf of the manual...in fact all the manuals. User Guide, Quick start, New Features, Plug Ins guide, and even for the free iPad control app. They are all searchable, and linked, so if your reading and it says "for more info, see blah blah blah on pg XX' you can click and it goes right there...that was a big deal for me, since yeah, the printed manual is like a phone book...

I only launched it in 64 bit mode, and on first launch it asks what to use for your PRIMARY plugin format. You can pick VST if you are moving back and forth between a PC, or AU if you have a bunch of older projects. But after it does the initial scan, you're free to change it. At that point, I noticed that it can run all its plugins side by side at the same time, so that was rather cool I thought. I've had some AU plugins in the past that fail validation in Logic, but the same VST runs flawlessly in LIVE...so the fact that all the internal MAS plugins run next to AU, and the ones that crash a lot or fail can be loaded as VST2 or 3, and its totally transparent gave me the first impression that MOTU was actually thinking and trying to deliver an elegant solution, so...NICE!! Also, it's not like Live, where you can turn on both VST and AU, but have doubles of everything until you sort out the folders, DP lets you pick and choose, and actually save configs of what you want to load.

The main reason I wanted DP was that I wasn't totally happy with the way most DAWs deal with deep MIDI editing. Yes, they are all powerful now, and good enough, I know...it's more the WAY they approach it. Too many different kinds of editors and too much fiddly, over-baked ways of doing simple things. Or simple meat and potatoes like ProTools, but not really enough there for a deeper dive. Nothing I've found that's been in the sweet spot. I was a huge fan of Vision back in the day and the way it not only did any utility stuff for editing, but also had a lot for experimentation and inspiration. I haven't seen it done at that level since. So for the last 7 pages, everyone has been complaining that in 2012 there's no demo, but how do you think I felt missing really useful and simple MIDI tools that I haven't seen since 1998 in OS8.6!! Until today anyway...I saw a lot in DP that made me smile to myself, and think "FINALLY!" And it's all in the same simple window and makes sense...

Been reading about other features that interest me, and it seems pretty loaded up and well thought out, so I'm looking forward to learning it through and through...first impressions are all good though!!

Any of you 10+ years guys have any tips, pitfalls, or things unique to DP that you could point me to would be highly appreciated...I'm thirsty for the knowledge!! I haven't been this excited about a DAW since Ableton Live... weird, I know since it's been around so long, but I feel like several holes in my system possibly just got filled...

Mark
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