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MOTU Digital Performer v. 8 shipping
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #121
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtboy ➡️
Unfortunately without a demo I can't see if it's worth the plunge. MOTU can be an odd company sometimes.
Apparently, you are allowed to try DP for 30 days and then return it if you want. Also, you can look on YouTube for some previews to see if it is worth the hassle.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #122
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➡️
Thanks sounds fine.

Now, I don't know how DP handles the equivalent of Logic and Cubase style "bounce in place," where you'd like to commit a guitar track with an AMP sim to audio and dump the overhead of the AMP sim (I often have many guitar tracks), or how you bounce a VI to audio in DP, but if these midi tracks feeding a via like Kontakt were all in a given folder, could that folder be "bounced in place" as it were, or whatever DP calls it?

Thx
Tom
Yup. Select the tracks, including MIDI & VI tracks if needed, and Freeze Tracks.

Added advantage of using the Track Folders approach would be if for some reason you wanted to treat, say, lower and upper registers of a keyboard split string ensemble, or kick vs. snare+hats parts of a drum kit patch differently, you could highlight the VI and first one, then the other MIDI track associated with the part, Freezing each to its own audio track for individual processing. Or snap the folder closed, highlight it, and all MIDI therein is used to generate the bounce. Many ways to skin a cat in DP.

P.S. Freezing is just highlighting tracks - any portion of any tracks: audio or midi+VI - hitting cmd-ctrl-F and getting a quick bounce to a new audio track.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #123
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar ➡️
But lets see, how things will turn out, all I know, no matter their approach has been, but they need to understand that times have changed & the time they put & invest on porting DP8 to Win platform will be a lost (doesn't mean they won't sell a few hundreds of them) & won't reach their highly expected sells. And positive I won't be wrong about it.
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. There are two things at play here: the first is that MOTU is looking at the long tail, the big picture.. respectfully, you're not. By making a Windows version, they are opening up the market to soooo many who have been interested in DP, but are committed to the Windows platform. I have been with this DAW for many years, and IMO, one thing that has not changed is that the MOTU folks are VERY forward-thinking. And, I don't think they loose money (which is what would happen if they sold a few hundreds).

The second, and maybe even more importantly, MOTU probably recognizes the possibility that the days of the Mac, as a professional production tool, may be numbered. In a few years, if there is any such thing as a "Mac Pro", it will look and be just like a f*ckin iPhone. And unless Garage Band is your favorite DAW, that's gonna suck.

Most people don't realize that DP's main competitor is not Cubase or Protools, but Logic, the only other Mac-only DAW. Obviously, Logic won't ever be ported to the PC. And remember also that MOTU sells a lot of already cross-platform hardware.. I think it's a brilliant move by MOTU, at the exact right time.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #124
kdm
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
There is no "Merge MIDI Regions" menu command as such; but what you want to do is easily done just as quickly (if not moreso) in DP by using the Tracks overview window which is always visible and treats MIDI/Audio in quickly selectable blocks by default (although even that behavior is modifiable according to your preference).

In the Tracks window, click on your MIDI part and drag it to the target MIDI track where it will snap into alignment, merging with the content of the target track. Done. You can select the entire block, or by measure or even discontiguous regions to drag/merge, using shift-click.
Really? From what I've seen this seems to apply to merging different tracks - how about merging/consolidating regions on a single track?

Is there no equivalent to the "glue" tool in Cubase and others? If not, then DP will have to offer quite a lot in other areas for me. I can live without it, but I do use that all the time to consolidate regions on a track after finalizing different sections of a cue for contiguous edits to CCs, transfer to Sibelius, etc.

Just lasso and click. Cubase will consolidate multiple tracks at one time as well without merging them into a single track - very handy for cleaning up multiple regions for a full score all at once. Just curious if that can be done as easily in DP.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #125
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm ➡️
Really? From what I've seen this seems to apply to merging different tracks - how about merging/consolidating regions on a single track?

Is there no equivalent to the "glue" tool in Cubase and others? If not, then DP will have to offer quite a lot in other areas for me. I can live without it, but I do use that all the time to consolidate regions on a track after finalizing different sections of a cue for contiguous edits to CCs, transfer to Sibelius, etc.

Just lasso and click. Cubase will consolidate multiple tracks at one time as well without merging them into a single track - very handy for cleaning up multiple regions for a full score all at once. Just curious if that can be done as easily in DP.
I haven't used Cubase, so to be honest I'm not sure what you're asking; if midi parts are on a single track already then.... they're on a single track. What would "merging" mean in that case? Moving or otherwise region editing any amount of midi on a DP track is as straightforward as highlighting the regions of interest, contiguous or not, in the Tracks overview (or midi edit window) and performing the edit.

It kind of sounds like there's some limitation in Cubase's workflow that you're using the "glue" command to supersede, which limitation just isn't there in DP ...?

EDIT: Ok I just watched this video to learn what the "glue" command in Cubase is, and yes, I was right.
http://www.ehow.com/video_4956251_cu...ond-track.html

I'm frankly not even sure how to explain how DP relates to that scenario because DP's approach to midi is so utterly different - and less troublesome.

EDIT 2:
OK I guess the way to explain it to say that, in DP, midi routing is really trivially easy, so tracks are the basic unit of handling; you would never have a situation in DP where one midi "object" were sitting on top of another, occluding it; you'd either A) just make a new track on the same midi channel with one click, and then treat it separately as needed and merge it whenever you prefer, for final cleaning up, as I discussed above; or B) click on the "overdub" button on DP's main transport and record the midi part into the same track if you don't want them treated separately.

Another way of saying it: in DP, a single midi track doesn't have "layers" coexisting and playing at the same time. You add as many tracks as you need, whenever you need, and make them familial by placing them in a folder, or merging them, or just highlighting across as many tracks as you need to, contiguously or discontiguously to move them or edit them. It's a less limiting way of working.

DP is well known to be great for scoring. I'm certain you can do exactly what you want to do with it. It would just look a little different in DP because the design principles and assumptions are obviously quite different from those of Cubase.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #126
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm ➡️
Really? From what I've seen this seems to apply to merging different tracks - how about merging/consolidating regions on a single track?

Is there no equivalent to the "glue" tool in Cubase and others? If not, then DP will have to offer quite a lot in other areas for me. I can live without it, but I do use that all the time to consolidate regions on a track after finalizing different sections of a cue for contiguous edits to CCs, transfer to Sibelius, etc.

Just lasso and click. Cubase will consolidate multiple tracks at one time as well without merging them into a single track - very handy for cleaning up multiple regions for a full score all at once. Just curious if that can be done as easily in DP.
I may not be reading this right, but I think the trick here is to realize that DP does NOT handle MIDI in any fashion that resembles a 'region'...., so.. in some ways there's just nothing to glue. It's all just notes/data. You'll never have two regions to glue together. You'll just have some data over here and some data over there. Place them on the same track or not. In some ways it's sort of free'ing, and in some ways it can be frustrating. One nice thing about regions, is that you can easily name them.... like "verse without hats", it's easier to know what this is based on a name rather than a pile of notes and CC data. Another nice thing about regions is that (in most DAW's) you can change one little thing in one region and have it ripple effect down the other regions with the same name..., if that's what you want. DP works on an arguably deeper method, where you configure very specific 'searches' for the type of MIDI data you want to select, change, alter, etc. You can achieve basically the same results,.... DP just does it different than most other DAWs.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #127
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
Yup. Select the tracks, including MIDI & VI tracks if needed, and Freeze Tracks.

Added advantage of using the Track Folders approach would be if for some reason you wanted to treat, say, lower and upper registers of a keyboard split string ensemble, or kick vs. snare+hats parts of a drum kit patch differently, you could highlight the VI and first one, then the other MIDI track associated with the part, Freezing each to its own audio track for individual processing. Or snap the folder closed, highlight it, and all MIDI therein is used to generate the bounce. Many ways to skin a cat in DP.

P.S. Freezing is just highlighting tracks - any portion of any tracks: audio or midi+VI - hitting cmd-ctrl-F and getting a quick bounce to a new audio track.
Thanks....so does that cmd-ctrl-F result in a new bounced audio track that appears in the same place on the timeline, or does it now have to be manually placed/spotted?

Sorry for all the questions, my copy will arrive next week sometime I just want to learn what I can. Been reading and watching tutorials. I have an OLD head start as I use to use Performer WAY back when....but so long ago that's almost like starting over......
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #128
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➡️
Thanks....so does that cmd-ctrl-F result in a new bounced audio track that appears in the same place on the timeline, or does it now have to be manually placed/spotted?
Same place on the timeline.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #129
kdm
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️

EDIT 2:
OK I guess the way to explain it to say that, in DP, midi routing is really trivially easy, so tracks are the basic unit of handling; you would never have a situation in DP where one midi "object" were sitting on top of another, occluding it; you'd either A) just make a new track on the same midi channel with one click, and then treat it separately as needed and merge it whenever you prefer, for final cleaning up, as I discussed above; or B) click on the "overdub" button on DP's main transport and record the midi part into the same track if you don't want them treated separately.

Another way of saying it: in DP, a single midi track doesn't have "layers" coexisting and playing at the same time. You add as many tracks as you need, whenever you need, and make them familial by placing them in a folder, or merging them, or just highlighting across as many tracks as you need to, contiguously or discontiguously to move them or edit them. It's a less limiting way of working.
That's pretty much what I thought. DP just doesn't really expand on the track-based operation to include region-based editing (clip-based in ProTools lingo).

DP's approach may accomplish the same goal, but it sounds like it is the same as, or very similar to, simply working with a track-only mindset with Cubase.

Maybe I'm just not quite following DP's approach and advantages, but Cubase also operates in the same track-based fashion - duplicate a track, merge, folders/subfolders, etc. But at the same time, on those same tracks, I can have independent midi regions to drag (in any position, across tracks, etc), copy/duplicate, quantize, transpose, edit/effect, etc.

Midi CC is contained in the region, so moving it means I'm moving the automation with it. This may be similar in DP, or at least I hope so. The idea of duplicating a track to duplicate a part seems somewhat arcane.

I'll give it a go and see if there is any advantage to DP's methods for me, whenever my DP8/Win copy gets here.
Old 29th September 2012
  #130
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Some time ago, someone posted a performance test for Logic on gearslutz (evanlogic ?). A project with midi tracks and plug-ins, you enable tracks until a performance error message comes up.

I tried to do a (completely non-scientific) performance comparison between Logic 9 and DP6, by creating a similar project for DP (e.g. when the Logic project has Space Designer, the DP project has ProVerb for convolution reverb). I used a MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), Core i7 2.66GHz, 8GB RAM.


DP6 was able to play almost twice as many tracks as LP9.
Old 29th September 2012
  #131
Lives for gear
 
projektk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I will be getting DP8 for review purposes on my blog. where do I purchase DP8, sweetwater only has DP7 from what I see. I'm willing to give anything a try, hopefully Pro Tools 64 bit gets revealed at AES 2012, I'm hoping since I have a student license with 2 more years of upgrades. I'm trying DP8 because I'd like to move away from Pro Tools and still have access to using it on Windows. Not a fan of Cubase but at this point I may purchase the cheapest Cubase version to even start getting used to its work flow. I'm clearly sick of Pro Tools, I love it but still sick of it. its mainly the 64 bit. DP8 looks pretty nice and from videos of DP7 and DP8 I'm sold.

Sent from my LG-P925
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #132
Lives for gear
 
Solar's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts ➡️
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. There are two things at play here: the first is that MOTU is looking at the long tail, the big picture.. respectfully, you're not. By making a Windows version, they are opening up the market to soooo many who have been interested in DP, but are committed to the Windows platform. I have been with this DAW for many years, and IMO, one thing that has not changed is that the MOTU folks are VERY forward-thinking. And, I don't think they loose money (which is what would happen if they sold a few hundreds).

The second, and maybe even more importantly, MOTU probably recognizes the possibility that the days of the Mac, as a professional production tool, may be numbered. In a few years, if there is any such thing as a "Mac Pro", it will look and be just like a f*ckin iPhone. And unless Garage Band is your favorite DAW, that's gonna suck.

Most people don't realize that DP's main competitor is not Cubase or Protools, but Logic, the only other Mac-only DAW. Obviously, Logic won't ever be ported to the PC. And remember also that MOTU sells a lot of already cross-platform hardware.. I think it's a brilliant move by MOTU, at the exact right time.
I share your point of view & you absolutely got some key points going. Lets then watch cuz my opinions is more based for their Win platform not for MAC cuz we all know they've been covering since they existence Mac format, so not worry about that side. It's the Win side & the way of handling their Demonstration so it could reach out as many potential users who simply either will want to give it a try & maybe get converted and buy it.

Anyways, lets close this debate & watch how things unfold & let this post be about the overall DP8 new features goods.

Thanx for the input
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #133
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar ➡️
I share your point of view & you absolutely got some key points going. Lets then watch cuz my opinions is more based for their Win platform not for MAC cuz we all know they've been covering since they existence Mac format, so not worry about that side. It's the Win side & the way of handling their Demonstration so it could reach out as many potential users who simply either will want to give it a try & maybe get converted and buy it.

Anyways, lets close this debate & watch how things unfold & let this post be about the overall DP8 new features goods.

Thanx for the input
Cool.. thanks for your point of view!
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #134
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx ➡️
I may not be reading this right, but I think the trick here is to realize that DP does NOT handle MIDI in any fashion that resembles a 'region'...., so.. in some ways there's just nothing to glue....You can achieve basically the same results,.... DP just does it different than most other DAWs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm ➡️
That's pretty much what I thought. DP just doesn't really expand on the track-based operation to include region-based editing (clip-based in ProTools lingo). ...
Well, again, yes and no. The thing to note is that DP provides tools for quickly defining regional edits in a flexible, ad hoc way: the always-there Tracks overview window, definable Markers, user-tweakable Phrase Settings, make a region-based style of working very doable in DP if that's what you prefer.

The midi in the Tracks overview does have a sticky, clip behavior, and with Phrase Settings you can control whether to let DP decide their edges or to set the rules for defining them yourself.

As you build your song structure, you can define Markers and name them (such as "verse without hats"). Those Markers then appear in every edit window, and clicking one highlights all tracks in that time range; you can then select one or more tracks just by clicking their names, and the resulting selection is defined by the Marker time range. This provides a very fast X,Y axis way of choosing any region or regions you want.

MOTU's design philosophy is never to make a feature whose behavior closes off options - it's an open-ended, sandbox philosophy that lets you quickly define constraints that work for you (instead of against you) as you build the song. Want regions? They're easily defined and redefined as you go. Don't want them? Don't ask for any and they won't get in your way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm ➡️
Midi CC is contained in the region, so moving it means I'm moving the automation with it. This may be similar in DP, or at least I hope so.
By default, yes.
But again: it's up to you. View Filters is a tool you can have on hand at all times during editing if you like, that lets you choose whether and what types of midi CC you want to include in an edit just by checking or unchecking boxes on the fly. After you're done with a very specific, selective edit, just click on the clear all/set all button to reset.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #135
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stratology's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicd ➡️
Hello all. I can confirm that DP8 ships with a built-in pdf manual.

Dave
Yeah, saw that on the specs page, great news (for iPad users..).


Dave, the specs page states that DP can import 'Final Cut Pro XML' files. Does this refer to the new Final Cut Pro X XML format, or to FCP7 type XML files?
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiogal ➡️
You can not mute midi notes (yet). It´s a function many DP users are asking for so MOTU has it on the users wish list.

DP an MIDI can be found on YouTube.. Google it or check the video tutorial companies.

MOTU.com - Digital Performer Training

HOW TO: Digital Performer

Digital Music Doctor - Pro Audio video tutorials for Audio Mixing & Mastering, Digital Arranging & Production, DigiDesign Pro Tools, Steinberg Cubase, Cakewalk Sonar, Sony Sound Forge, Apple Logic Pro, Ableton Live, FL Studio Fruity Loops, MOTU Digit

All DP tutorials are valid even if they´re not done for DP8, the functions are the same.
Hi RG!!! What a blast over at Motunation eh?? I stand corrected. I meant to say yes if in the Drum Grid!!

Thanx~Jeff
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #137
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Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years

Last edited by Benmrx; 29th September 2012 at 10:58 PM.. Reason: Mostly hyperbole, and wasn't adding much...
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #138
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Tell you one thing, and may seem petty, but I'm really looking forward to the different skins.

Being able to put different songs and projects a different look that may actually be appropriate for the project could actually put me in a different mindset when working and mixing, silly as that sounds. Looking at the same interface no matter what you are doing is standard fare I know, but this business of doing music is certainly as much emotional as technical. I think it's a great idea.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #139
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➡️
Tell you one thing, and may seem petty, but I'm really looking forward to the different skins.

Being able to put different songs and projects a different look that may actually be appropriate for the project could actually put me in a different mindset when working and mixing, silly as that sounds. Looking at the same interface no matter what you are doing is standard fare I know, but this business of doing music is certainly as much emotional as technical. I think it's a great idea.
Not petty at all! I think it's a great idea for the exact reason you mentioned. I think it was v7.2 that introduced the skins, and I'm glad they've expanded on it.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #140
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Radiogal's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Hill ➡️
Hi RG!!! What a blast over at Motunation eh?? I stand corrected. I meant to say yes if in the Drum Grid!!

Thanx~Jeff
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #141
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Radiogal holding it down. . MOTU should thank you.

Anyway, you can always tell a long time "exclusive" user from the way they talk about stuff that's pretty common these days, like buying a DAW and having access to the Win & OSX versions by default, nothing all that special about that really.

DP looks great to me but it's the smaller details I need to experience and those aren't really in the marketing vids.

Anyway, carry on. Parts of this thread are funny though, some of the assumptions being made about the general daw market outside of MOTU. But DP 8 looks really good for Windows. I do hope to give it a spin at some point.

Nice looking product.

P.S. In this age of people watching HD movies over the net, not having downloadable products is a bit old fashioned.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Maniac
 
Todzilla's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge ➡️
How is the panning done in DP8? I only see one control. How do you deal with stereo tracks. Do you need a panning plug to process the L and R channels separately?
Thanks
Why wouldn't you just record stereo as two mono tracks then? Am I missing something?
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #143
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
One question: Does DP have macros or scripting? That's one thing, for people who use it anyway, that's kinda hard to lose.

Thanks.
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #144
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology ➡️
Some time ago, someone posted a performance test for Logic on gearslutz (evanlogic ?). A project with midi tracks and plug-ins, you enable tracks until a performance error message comes up.

I tried to do a (completely non-scientific) performance comparison between Logic 9 and DP6, by creating a similar project for DP (e.g. when the Logic project has Space Designer, the DP project has ProVerb for convolution reverb). I used a MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), Core i7 2.66GHz, 8GB RAM.


DP6 was able to play almost twice as many tracks as LP9.
Either DP makes a more CPU friendly reverb, the program itslef is more CPU friendly, or a combination of both. Very unscientific! Why did you not just download a free AU convolution reverb?
Old 30th September 2012
  #145
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
PEOPLE! PLEASE DO PERFORMANCE TESTS AND POST RESULTS!

That would be really cool.
Thanks .
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #146
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todzilla ➡️
Why wouldn't you just record stereo as two mono tracks then? Am I missing something?
I think he means if you want independent control of stereo image width and placement on a single track.

DP's included Trim plug gives you complex pan and gain for each channel of a stereo track if needed.
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #147
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence ➡️
One question: Does DP have macros or scripting? That's one thing, for people who use it anyway, that's kinda hard to lose.

Thanks.
It doesn't have a native macro protocol, but it is compatible with QuickKeys macro software and has been for many years. Never used it myself, but my understanding is that entire small civilizations have been built in QuickKeys around DP control.

Has OSC and HUI support for hardware control interfacing.
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #148
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Will DP 8 allow me to import a stereo wav file and split it into 2 mono files?

i sometimes work with loops that area click on the left and music on the right and i need to add to them so i need to split that file to 2 mono tracks

cubase does it on import to project

thanks
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #149
Lives for gear
 
henge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse ➡️
I think he means if you want independent control of stereo image width and placement on a single track.

DP's included Trim plug gives you complex pan and gain for each channel of a stereo track if needed.
That is correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji ➡️
Apparently, you are allowed to try DP for 30 days and then return it if you want.
Is this true?
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #150
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge ➡️
That is correct!



Is this true?
Definitely not concrete evidence, but this is where I saw it: KVR: Is there a demo version of Digital Performer?
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