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DAD - AX32 AD/DA/DD Pre/converter
Old 16th January 2014 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Jan, and thanks for your response,

So far, I am using this forum, as I think it will be of interest to other fellows who wants a powerful small footprint studio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntpjl ➡️
The latency on a Dante Network depends on a number of parameters, such as bit rate, number of network switches, whether you use a Dante PCIe Card or the Dante Virtual Sound Card etc. To give you an idea of what can be achieved, Audinate specify a round-trip latency of 2.99 msec. (incl. audio application) for their Dante PCIe Card.
I was thinking about using the Dante Virtual Sound Card.
I just searched for the Dante PCIe Card, and the price is a total Internet secrecy.

I am about to build myself a new PC around Asus Z87, Intel 4770K and Win 8.1. I think the PCs CPU is vital for the latency – correct me if I am wrong…
I usually use 44.1, one (cheap) network switch and Nuendo (always latest version).

Which latency figures can I hope for using:
a) Dante Virtual Sound card, or b) Dante PCIe Card?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntpjl ➡️
We have been compatible with Eucon for many years (with our AX24) and that is a policy we continue with, so the answer is YES.
Nice

Thanks
PlugSlut
Old 16th January 2014
  #32
DAD - Digital Audio Denmark
 
ntpjl's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hi PlugSlut

The price of the Dante PCIe is indeed an Internet secrecy, unless you know what to search for . Try looking for either:

Focusrite RedNet PCIe Card
Yamaha AIC-128D

The Yamaha card is used in their Nuendo-based Nuage, so I guess that would be the most obvious one for you to use. I believe the Yamaha Card also supports redundant Dante networking as we now do in the AX32, though I guess that is not relevant to you if it's only for studio use.

I will have to come back with some additional latency information as I don't have it available right now. In any case, for that channel count (32) you will need a Gigabit switch. A EUR100-150 switch is generally sufficient, so it's not a massive investment if you don't already have one.

Jan
Old 16th January 2014
  #33
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks a lot Jan,

I use a Netgear ProSafe 5 Port Gigabit Switch, so I think I am all right.

It’s not just for the studio. I am thinking using this as a live recording rig too. And – tracking a choir to an already recorded background, there should be decent low latency even there…

I found both the Focusrite RedNet PCIe Card and Yamaha AIC-128D on the Internet, and learned that those cards would not pass controller data…
That means feeding two cables to the PC – also in a live recording situation. Three if I want redundancy…

When using Dante Virtual Sound Card I think I can pass both audio and controller data. I am looking forward to the Virtual Sound Cards latency numbers.

Thanks
PlugSlut
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Addict
 
xcskier's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut ➡️

Will there be a card for outputting 8 channels of Adat, which I use for HearBack headphones cue lines for the musicians?
I knows it's a less elegant solution, but an RME ADI-648 MADI to Adat format converter would do the job. (DAD MADI to RME format change).

My guess is that neither the Horus nor the AX32 will have Adat anytime soon, or at all ??

You also mentioned you run RME cards ? If you intend to keep any older PCI cards (not PCIe) the Z series intel chipset motherboards use a bridged PCI to PCIe chip that demonstrates less throughput. There are other intel chipsets that don't use this, if you have this concern.

Also you might want to consider the RME MADI card interface with the AX32 if you want to keep the network clear for control/command protocols. (You mentioned you often don't run high sample rates - RME MADI max smpl would be 96 or 192 kHz depending on PCI/PCIe card).

There is another thread to find more info on the AX32. I would love to know more about the AX32 as well, even if we just keep our AX24 and make updates...

DAD AX32 vs Merging Horus
Old 21st January 2014
  #35
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Low latency is eXtremely IMPORTANT!

Thanks for the tip xcskier

Well – the ADAT is not very important, but I think it would save me from buying a second output card. The HearBack will eat analog audio too .

The reason for looking at the format like Merging Horus and DAD AX32 is the compactness. To finalize a minimal system I don’t want a lot of utility boxes.

I just made myself a board that looks like a traditional console with a (flat) rack on the left side. It looks nice, but I would rather have a small rack with just the 4U PC, a 2U I/O-Micpre-converterbox (like a Merging Horus or a DAD AX32) and my HearBack 1U dist-box tucked beneath the console. It’s not very important to have colorful and special preamps for me. I have nice plugins to color my signals.
A little compact system like described would give me more producers space – and would be a perfect setup for me. I mostly use Nuendo (always latest update), and have also Pro Tools Native 9 & 10. Windows 8.1 in a few days .

I am wondering if the new Thunderbolt interface would allow Merging and DAD to make a direct connection to the PC via an optional mini module. I am not sure, but I think the Thunderbolt is like an decentralized PCIe slot. If so – it should be possible to lower the latency down to the Pro Tools HDX level.

Dreams comes easy…

PlugSlut
Attached Thumbnails
DAD - AX32 AD/DA/DD Pre/converter-console-rack-side.jpg  
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut ➡️
I am wondering if the new Thunderbolt interface would allow Merging and DAD to make a direct connection to the PC via an optional mini module. I am not sure, but I think the Thunderbolt is like an decentralized PCIe slot. If so – it should be possible to lower the latency down to the Pro Tools HDX level.

Dreams comes easy…

PlugSlut
Horus running pyramix masscore has latency and dsp power that is pretty similar to HDX without the need for the expensive hdx card (we own and use both masscore and hdx here)
No need for thunderbolt, you just need the merging certified gigabit ethernet card. You cable run limitations will be a completely different ballpark to thunderbolt and a simple dell switch will get you all the splits and digital distribution you need
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm ➡️
Horus running pyramix masscore has latency and dsp power that is pretty similar to HDX without the need for the expensive hdx card (we own and use both masscore and hdx here)
No need for thunderbolt, you just need the merging certified gigabit ethernet card. You cable run limitations will be a completely different ballpark to thunderbolt and a simple dell switch will get you all the splits and digital distribution you need
Thanks for your input klaukholm,

I am a bit slow about IP solutions. Which Merging certified gigabit Ethernet card are you referring to? Is it a PCIe card? Can you please point me to it on their homepage?

About Masscore… I thought it is just for using Pyramix. I am perfectly happy with Nuendo and Pro Tools Native for now, and do not want to change DAW.

Using Nuendo with ASIO – what parts do I use to get a super low latency system using Horus? Can you please specify and explain a total system?

Thanks
PlugSlut
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
NetworkAudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut ➡️
Thanks for your input klaukholm,

I am a bit slow about IP solutions. Which Merging certified gigabit Ethernet card are you referring to? Is it a PCIe card? Can you please point me to it on their homepage?

About Masscore… I thought it is just for using Pyramix. I am perfectly happy with Nuendo and Pro Tools Native for now, and do not want to change DAW.

Using Nuendo with ASIO – what parts do I use to get a super low latency system using Horus? Can you please specify and explain a total system?

Thanks
PlugSlut
Masscore is Pyramix only and is the best way to achieve PTHD/HDX latency figures and equivalent dedicated DSP power.
The ethernet card to use with PMX masscore is a €200 card referred to in the Merging pricelist as NET-MSC-GBEX1.

Using Nuendo, you will not get masscore or HDX latency performance.
For low latency foldback/cuemix, I recommend getting the analogue direct outputs option on the micpre cards. Using this with a simple mackie mixer or similar will get you a great true zero latency foldback/cuemix


Two other options are direct ethernet with the horus asio driver or a madi card such as the MadiFX.
I am not a fan of the RME card, but it will get you a low latency foldback mix.
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm ➡️
Two other options are direct ethernet with the horus asio driver or a madi card such as the MadiFX.
I am not a fan of the RME card, but it will get you a low latency foldback mix.
Thank you for your detailed information klaukholm,

Well – if there is not any simple system – I think I will stick with my system as it is for now.

I will follow these systems close to see if there will be any future improvements. If not Merging or DAD, I think other might come with a solution eventually.

Thanks
PlugSlut
Old 21st January 2014 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Addict
 
xcskier's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut ➡️
...... Windows 8.1 in a few days .

I am wondering if the new Thunderbolt interface would allow Merging and DAD to make a direct connection to the PC via an optional mini module. I am not sure, but I think the Thunderbolt is like an decentralized PCIe slot. If so – it should be possible to lower the latency down to the Pro Tools HDX level.
'Not that knowledgeable on Win 8, but if you do want to consider Pyramix in the future, Win 7 is the better choice.

Decentralized PCIe slot might be a good way to explain TB use with audio interface.

This is the very reason why we elected to stay away from TB, beyond the obvious fact that the cable is not what you would imagine as a secure connect, or professional grade ie flimsy.

Decentralizing the PCIe adds latency and convolution. For example (working from PC outward): PCH to PCIe controller, to TB, back to a PCIe controller, then to what ever format change or external PCIe card.

Alternatively, if you have a good motherboard, the LAN controller will employ a PCIe (x1) lane direct to PCH (Platform Controler Hub).

If you use a NIC card instead of onboard Ethernet - similar situation just mentioned (or 16x express lane can be use direct to North Bridge (bypass PCH)).

Similar idea if you are considering a PCIe card like RME MADI, Merging, PT HD etc... Less convolution if it's placed direct to PCIe bus (whether it's a x1, x4 lane to PCH, or x16 lane - even more direct). The point of a Rack mounted PC is to have the PCIe cards with a direct bus connection. More stable, reliable, professional etc. than peripheral routing.

(RME MADI also comes without the FX version, by the way).

Last edited by xcskier; 24th January 2014 at 02:57 AM.. Reason: A little more clarity
Old 22nd January 2014
  #41
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Wow xcskier,
that twisted my brain , but I think I got your explanation

Thank you very much. I have learned a lot!

PlugSlut
Old 24th January 2014 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Addict
 
xcskier's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSlut ➡️
Wow xcskier,
that twisted my brain , but I think I got your explanation
Thank you very much. I have learned a lot!
Cool. No problem. I gave it a little edit to see if that helps at all.

Klaukholm is totally correct that the lowest latencies you can achieve are in MassCore modes - either with the NIC card he mentioned, or with the older Mykerinos cards which I won't confuse you with at the moment.

Zero Latency is achieved with the Direct Out Horus cards. I wonder if DAD is looking at that option ?

The Merging Ravenna ASIO latencies are very respectable and Merging lists round trip to be transparent with their numbers.

But I'm certainly not trying to lead you away from DAD. These are Top conversion, and you already use Euphonix control...

You are right to take time and do your research, either one of these options offers great workflow outcomes, (without having to mention the dedication to highest standards in audio).
Old 24th April 2014 | Show parent
  #43
DAD - Digital Audio Denmark
 
ntpjl's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Resolution review the AX32, an "incredibly clever box that sounds damn good too"

Resolution have reviewed the AX32 and conclude it's an "incredibly clever box that sounds damn good too". You can read the full review here: DAD - News AX32 Review in Resolution Magazine, JON THOTNTON encounters an incredibly clever box that sounds damn good too.
Old 4th September 2014
  #44
DAD - Digital Audio Denmark
 
ntpjl's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
AX32 now with Eucon 3.1

NTP Technology announces that EUCON 3.1 control for the DAD AX32 AD/DA converter will be formally introduced at IBC 2014, Amsterdam, September 12-16. Exhibiting in Hall 8 on stand B52, NTP Technology will be represented by Mikael Vest, Jan Lykke, Kim Vangsgaard and Jeppe Sørensen.

The Digital Audio Denmark AX32 AD/DA high end converter and DX32 digital audio bridge will be shown together with new DADman version 4.2 control software for Windows and OSX.

"The new DADman version 4.2 control software we are introducing at IBC will incorporate automation via the Avid EUCON protocol which allows easy control of the microphone preamplifier channel strip from Avid S6 and Artist control surfaces," says NTP Technology Sales Director Mikael Vest. "The AX32's microphone gain, channel mute and phase inversion can all now be operated directly from Avid's user interface. This will be greatly appreciated by sound engineers who typically operate the AX32 from the control surface in their studio control room. The software interfaces via the EuCon high-speed Ethernet protocol which enables a hardware control surface to communicate directly with our software application."

The AX32 comes as standard with interface for Avid Pro Tools and eight AES/EBU and MADI inputs and outputs. It can optionally be fitted with a Dante IP audio interface and two optical MADI interfaces, making it an extremely versatile platform.
Old 8th May 2015
  #45
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
CB Electronics have just released a bit of kit people might be interested in the TMC-1 PENTA take a look at the link below:

TMC-1-Penta Product Page

Colin also has a blog for people to keep up to date with what he is working on link below:

Colin's Blog
Old 5th August 2016
  #46
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
question dropped
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