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Vienna Dimension Strings...
Old 24th September 2012
  #31
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I do find Sample Modeling's Trumpet to have those subtle idiosyncrasies, as you say, but the basic tone is mediocre at best for today's market. I could pick that product out of a lineup with my ears closed. VSL has them, too, but you have to work at the programming. I don't see any way around this since there are hundreds of ways to play many instruments and forcing the computer to choose one at a given interval is no intuitive task. However, if you watch the video you'll see strides they've taken toward that type of realism with things like the open string option,, humanization, etc. These things can't be matched by most other libraries, perhaps none.
Old 24th September 2012
  #32
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
...you'll see strides they've taken toward that type of realism with things like the open string option, humanization, etc. These things can't be matched by most other libraries, perhaps none.
I was impressed by the open and single string playing options, the portamento on a single string sounded great.

We are way ahead from where we were a decade ago - everything is moving in the right direction and with companies like Audiobro, 8dio, Sample Modeling, Orchestral Tools plus a few others kicking up a fuss - the future is exciting...
Old 25th September 2012
  #33
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I only had about a 1/2 hour with it tonight but so far I'm very impressed. Nearly everything I heard was an improvement over my previous VSL string libraries and those were already damn impressive. There's a higher level of realism in both the "humanizations" - the imperfections - as well as the recording quality. Most semblances of sonic frailty are gone. Violins are rich and full sounding. And this library is deep! To truly make it sound like an orchestra you'll need to put some time into the programming. It's not difficult, and in fact it's highly intuitive, but you can't be lazy about it. And of course RTFM.
Old 25th September 2012
  #34
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degas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the quick review, elambo.
I've been interested in the chamber strings since forever, since smaller orchestras suits my music better.

Do you think this set would be suitable for me?
Old 25th September 2012
  #35
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Hmmm... The Demo song didn't really grab me. It had its moments but for the most part didn't sway me 100%

I watched the video but to be honest it didn't seem that impressive. When they were showing the individual violins in the section, I could hear varying amounts of noise, the last violin at 2:47 had the most noise with each key press and sounded very distracting to me.

The fast run at 5:25 was painfully unrealistic sounding.

I could see this augmenting current libraries but just from the demo and video on the site, I don't see this being the library to end all libraries.

It did have its moments which is why I think it'd augment other libraries good but I'd have to demo it firsthand to make any real judgement. This is just my opinion based on what Vienna has on its website.

Regards,
Frank
Old 25th September 2012
  #36
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
There's certainly no substitute for a hands-on test drive. The realism is striking -- I didn't hear anything while goofing around last night that was overtly artificial. They said they took four years to develop this and I believe them. It feels very well put together, or about as well as a few hundred thousand individual recordings can be.

Judge Christian's demo, not the how-to video, or better yet download the working demo.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
...There's a higher level of realism in both the "humanizations" - the imperfections...

...And this library is deep! To truly make it sound like an orchestra you'll need to put some time into the programming. It's not difficult, and in fact it's highly intuitive, but you can't be lazy about it...
We're reaching the point where the man-hours required for programming realistic strings are close to those required for recording real musicians. I'd seriously have to consider whether the programming effort was worth the cost saving.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #38
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Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User ➑️
We're reaching the point where the man-hours required for programming realistic strings are close to those required for recording real musicians. I'd seriously have to consider whether the programming effort was worth the cost saving.
See how much it costs to hire a full orchestra per day.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus ➑️
See how much it costs to hire a full orchestra per day.
I know how much and, it's true, VSL is cheaper. But it's not just about the cost.

To get the full 'human' effect from this amazing VI, you need to program every player of every section separately from start to finish. For a 1 hour score for 8+8+6+6+4 (the section sizes in Dimension Strings) that's up to 32 hours of programming.

I'd have to make a cost v sanity calculation somewhere.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #40
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Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User ➑️
I know how much and, it's true, VSL is cheaper. But it's not just about the cost.

To get the full 'human' effect from this amazing VI, you need to program every player of every section separately from start to finish. For a 1 hour score for 8+8+6+6+4 (the section sizes in Dimension Strings) that's up to 32 hours of programming.

I'd have to make a cost v sanity calculation somewhere.

Hire an assistant to do all the detailed programming. :-)
Old 26th September 2012
  #41
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If the arranger is milking you to push the clock then it might be expensive but it shouldn't be. I arrange most of my own orchestrations and I rarely spend more than a few minutes on a given part. When the budget allows for the real-deal, hell yeah, that's what I'll do, but most gigs make VSL necessary. When it's going to be samples they should be as good as possible.

I spent much more time with Dimension today, and even tried copping a piece I'd written a few months ago with real players. I was amazed by how close Vienna could get. If I wanted to tweak MIDI I could get even closer, I merely threw up a few instruments and played the same parts and, in some ways, the sampled piece was better.

I don't see it as a fully-convincing replacement for an orchestra, I see it as an alternative, and, in some cases, a supplement. There will be times where I play accompaniment with Vienna and cover the leads with real players.

I gotta say it's tough waiting for the rest of the library. After today I'm very anxious to get my hands on them.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #42
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feck's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
I gotta say it's tough waiting for the rest of the library.
My thoughts exactly!
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus ➑️
Hire an assistant to do all the detailed programming. :-)
Yup. I might start training my kids. :-)
Old 28th September 2012
  #44
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Chiming in for the last time after having spent a couple hours with Dimension, there's nothing else on the market which can touch this library. I have or have demoed the other majors and although each has its sweet spot none are as convincing as the Big D. I'm also finding that it doesn't take as much meticulous programming as I'd originally suspected to make them sound right, it was a matter of becoming more familiar with the library as a whole. It's deep, but it's intuitive. Read the manual, watch the videos, and understand the Instrument software, too.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #45
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feck's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Agreed - after some more time here (and much of it really learning the VI Pro 2 interface) they are phenomenal strings. In my opinion, with all they are including for the price, it is a steal.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #46
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Have to assume then that they sound totally different in person than on the demos...I just listened to the Vienna "Patch Overview" video and the higher registers sounded typically VSL to me, and I'm a Vienna owner and user. Lots of great articulations and options, but again, the base sound of the higher registers, if they sound like that, would be unusable to me.

We all hear differently I guess.

TH
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #47
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➑️
We all hear differently I guess.
Or at least we judge differently. Feck and I both own and use the actual product and appear to have a similar opinion about it. I'll speak specifically to your question about the upper registers and say that they're entirely usable and in fact beyond merely usable.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #48
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
Or at least we judge differently. Feck and I both own and use the actual product and appear to have a similar opinion about it. I'll speak specifically to your question about the upper registers and say that they're entirely usable and in fact beyond merely usable.
Good to hear, although one would think any demos officially posted on their site would be the best sounding examples possible, I guess in this case they don't represent the real product.
Old 29th September 2012
  #49
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tstrahle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
They sound amazing on the demo. I'm sure one of the composers I work for will be picking it up.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #50
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrahle ➑️
They sound amazing on the demo. I'm sure one of the composers I work for will be picking it up.
Yep, that's what makes horse races!
Old 29th September 2012
  #51
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Christian's demo sounds great.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #52
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
Christian's demo sounds great.
As I said, each to his own, and Elambo I know you are a strong and vocal fan of VSL (and with good reason), but to me when the high violin part comes in at about 1:35 it couldn't be less convincing, to me.
Old 30th September 2012
  #53
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Right, everyone can decide for themselves. Below is a link to the piece (middle of the page).

In my experience, that run on any other library would be less convincing to my ears.

Vienna Symphonic Library
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #54
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➑️
As I said, each to his own, and Elambo I know you are a strong and vocal fan of VSL (and with good reason), but to me when the high violin part comes in at about 1:35 it couldn't be less convincing, to me.
I have listened to that run a few times - the best way i can describe the sound is 'homogenised', that is something to do with the legato transitions which sound slightly smeared.

It could be the programming - I really need to hear more examples and demos, but I think one would ideally need to own the library to check its full potential...
Old 30th September 2012
  #55
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
It's a great time to be a virtual instrument owner/operator that we're having to dissect the microcosm to find imperfections, and even those are debatable.
Old 1st October 2012 | Show parent
  #56
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw ➑️
I have listened to that run a few times - the best way i can describe the sound is 'homogenised', that is something to do with the legato transitions which sound slightly smeared.

It could be the programming - I really need to hear more examples and demos, but I think one would ideally need to own the library to check its full potential...
I think we are listening to two different things, I'm talking about the video, and a high sustained violin part, not a run...
Old 1st October 2012
  #57
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Am I wrong about this? Is there not a working demo of this product? I'm pretty sure there is.

Or listen to my link above. That's a proper indication of the product.
Old 1st October 2012 | Show parent
  #58
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oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➑️
Am I wrong about this? Is there not a working demo of this product? I'm pretty sure there is.

Or listen to my link above. That's a proper indication of the product.
I can't find a demo on their site, just the "Psycho" take off demo.

If you find it please post a link, would love to try it.
Old 1st October 2012 | Show parent
  #59
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks ➑️
I think we are listening to two different things, I'm talking about the video, and a high sustained violin part, not a run...
Yes it seems we are.

All the same I have often struggled with the 'sound' of VSL since I bought my first set of Solo strings back in 2004.

I guess I am just a sucker for libraries with more 'personality'. But again, that is purely subjective...
Old 1st October 2012 | Show parent
  #60
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw ➑️
Yes it seems we are.

All the same I have often struggled with the 'sound' of VSL since I bought my first set of Solo strings back in 2004.

I guess I am just a sucker for libraries with more 'personality'. But again, that is purely subjective...
Can you define "personality" as it relates to string libraries? I don't know what that means.
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