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Axis Plug-ins Track Limiter 32bit/64bit
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monad ➡️
You welcome.

Btw, can you say a bit more about the nature and difference between those three algorithms?

cheers
oh, wow .. am i honored that i am allowed to talk about dsp .. ... thanks ...

actually it is really easy, in a good limiting algorithm the low and high frequencies must be treated different; according to their wavelength ... which should be quite easy understandable (regarding their nature of time difference) .... so, the first two settings 8k, 12k just set a crossover, which lets you select if low frequencies should be assigned up to 8k or 12k ... the third setting fixes the low frequency to 8k but adjusts the release time according to the selected attack time ... basically that means the release time is somewhere around 200ms .... i preferably am using it in 8k mode and since i like it pumping; i select very low settings for attack and release .. especially release, where the track limiter really can start getting awesome dirty ... and the knee around -3db ... that kicks it for me ... but my intention for sound is very dirty ...

if i could use it for clean vocals, i would set a very long release time in 12k mode without a knee ... but my experience here is not very professional and if pros out there who know how to treat vocals well would design presets, i would be very, very happy to have them in track limiter library ...
Old 23rd September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian Schnurle ➡️
oh, wow .. am i honored that i am allowed to talk about dsp .. ... thanks ...
Wow, your attitude to me and others on this forum really makes me want to pay license fees to use your plugins…
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Addict
 
Aux13's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjguitar ➡️
Wow, your attitude to me and others on this forum really makes me want to pay license fees to use your plugins…
Same thoughts.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
polybonk's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjguitar ➡️
Wow, your attitude to me and others on this forum really makes me want to pay license fees to use your plugins…
I don't think he was being sarcastic if that is what you are getting at.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
acmusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Def. think there are some translation issues in his posts but the Dev. does seem passionate about his design and concept-even if it may not seem a popular one. I personally wouldn't rent any kind of plugins, nor did I ever session at any studios that do (not to say there aren't any).
It was mentioned in another thread that the Dev. change his avatar and I would think that a truly professional public image is one key to success and having your voice heard; Axis does, in fact, have a logo and its curious why it isn't being used to post here.

$.02

Old 25th September 2012
  #36
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polybonk's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Personally if you coupled this subscription plan with a cost to buy it outright at a higher full price this may seem more worthwhile.

Also you need to pay someone to wright better copy for your page. The language is so unprofessional that it will seriously undermine confidence in your product. The whole presentation is what you would expect from a freeware plugin IMHO.

I wish I had an Elicencer as I am rather intrigued by the bold first steps of this new company. I mean you are competing for market share that is so loaded with limiters that range from free to thousands of dollars. Your one had better be very, very good to stand out amongst the competition, overcome its poor presentation, and justify a new business model based on subscription.

That said I can see how as your range grows and with access to early development and input, subscription may eventually be attractive to users. But I think you will need to have truly unique products that people want to get behind, then it will work.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I agree I like a company trying new concepts, but here's what I don't like about the subscription:

a) you never own the plugin, and you are never free to use it as you seem fit. as mentioned before, I strongly believe in owning the things I pay for - being restricted after having bought a piece of software bugs me, so e.g. I don't buy software that needs dongles.

b) what if the company decides to go out of business? you are suddently left with a product you paid a lot of money for and can't use anymore. since it's a one-man-show, this seems a likely scenario.

c) as mentioned above, there are many excellent plugin designers out there offering their software for very reasonable prices (sonimus, toneboosters, stillwell, ddmf, etc etc) -- I am happy to spend money on their products, own the thing without restrictions - I don't believe the Axis is so much better (if at all) that it would justify such a business model, so why bother with such a payment model?

I understand the need for protecting your work, but these kind of restrictions certainly aren't the way. (imagine music not being sold any more, but only rented ..) I rather believe that if you offer good quality software for reasonable prices so one can easily afford them, people are more than willing to spend the money, which imho results in consiberably more sales. In the end, you may have sold a lot more, even if some idiots grab it for free from some stupid site.
Old 25th September 2012
  #38
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Aux13's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In this thread I can't find one review about this track limiter, not even from people who already paid yearly fee. All we got here is e-licenser copy protection and company's business concept. Maybe some sound samples from developer's side will help? ( I can't find them on their home page)
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
polybonk and everybody else, i want to apologize if my/our english is not pleasing your intellect. our main market is not an english speaking one and we try to serve all content on our website in three different languages. we will improve that as fast as we can, thank you a lot for your tip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet ➡️
a) you never own the plugin, and you are never free to use it as you seem fit.
please read all the end user license agreements of every software company in the world. you never can own any software, it is a licensed good like music, further reading into intellectual property law will sure help. you are always and only granted the permission of use and actually only that long until an update is offered. that is why updates often have to be paid extra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet ➡️
b) what if the company decides to go out of business? you are suddently left with a product you paid a lot of money for and can't use anymore.
we have already regulated a lot of those possible incidents. in this special one, all current members of axis plug-ins will get a never expiring license and the plug-ins will work as long as your system will support it ... you can read more about those things in our support/faq area .

Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet ➡️
c) as mentioned above, there are many excellent plugin designers out there offering their software for very reasonable prices
but they can not compete with the axis plug-ins pricing, just start calculating .. by the end of this year there will be 3-4 plug-ins available, in 2013 there will be another 6. if this then would be all, you get 10 plug-ins for 39,- a year.

now, if you are not willing to stay a member another year, then you just cancel your subscription. and if you do not want to be a member of axis plug-ins anymore why would you want to use axis plug-ins ever again after you canceled your subscription ? you did not like them, you canceled the subscription, you will never again use axis plug-ins ? or am i getting something wrong here ?


but the whole concept of having a subscription is not only to be sure you get all your updates, it is scaleability. maybe this is not fitting your needs. but larger studios may have more workstations. e.g. they have seven workstations and a very good business year, then they can get axis plug-ins subscriptions for all of their seven workstations. the next year the studio is maybe booked less and they only need five workstations, they re-scale the axis plug-ins subscription plan and reduce it to five.

no other company can offer this, in the good year our example studio would have bought seven licenses or passing some dongle around and stress out themselves. in the bad year they are stuck with two licenses too much and/or the dongle was stolen by the jerk that was fired ...
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk ➡️
Also you need to pay someone to wright better copy for your page. The language is so unprofessional that it will seriously undermine confidence in your product. The whole presentation is what you would expect from a freeware plugin IMHO.
Oops, I've just looked at the site, and indeed, the language is terrible. No matter if the company employs one or 100 people: if they don't care for certain standards in design and language (aimed at their target group), they don't seem to have the confidence in selling their product. IMVHO.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf ➡️
Oops, I've just looked at the site, and indeed, the language is terrible. No matter if the company employs one or 100 people: if they don't care for certain standards in design and language (aimed at their target group), they don't seem to have the confidence in selling their product. IMVHO.
please read the post before yours, we will improve that, but english is not our main and only concern .. thanks for letting us know ..
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #42
monad
Guest
I must agree about the avatar, though, it looks like a head of a penis when you read and don't look at it directly, a bit disturbing.

Also, regarding the plugin's GUI; those tiny grey background lines on meters should be a darker shade of grey.

Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aux13 ➡️
In this thread I can't find one review about this track limiter, not even from people who already paid yearly fee. All we got here is e-licenser copy protection and company's business concept. Maybe some sound samples from developer's side will help? ( I can't find them on their home page)
i am happy to pass a nfr to someone of this forum. so we can get samples that will be right for this community here ...

just contact us via the axis plug-ins contact form ..
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I really don't want to fight over the way how you conduct your business. That is, of course, totally up to you. I was merely trying to point out that the way you do this might prevent a lot of clients from buying your stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian Schnurle ➡️
no other company can offer this
Just a quick reply to this: that's simply not true. There's many companies out there who allow you to use a bought plugin on all your machines. So say I pay 25 EUR for a plugin, and use it on all my 7 workstation without any limitations? Way cheaper than your system. PLUS I don't have the hassle of e-licensing, annual payments, etc.
Sure, there are way more expensive companies out there, but also a lot of great developers who offer fantastic value for fair prices without any hassle.
Old 25th September 2012
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Scratch it, see next post.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
as i wrote, nobody can compete. you wrote ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet ➡️
25 EUR for A plugin
thus, for ONE plug-in.

let's do some maths: 10 plug-ins for 39,- a year, that is 3.90,- per plug-in a year, 25,- for your plug-in devided by 3.90,- results in having one axis plug-in for a bit more than 6 years !

in these six years operating systems and hardware has changed twice .. so i assume the 25,- euro plug-in has to be bought twice again, so it is 75,- -.-

and if not, how the hell is this developer surviving ? .. i want to know that, because he must have found the potion of life ....
Old 25th September 2012
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Pretty good I'd say.

India Vocal Mix Axis 12.mp3
India Vocal Mix Pro-L.mp3
Axis Plug-ins Track Limiter 32bit/64bit-capture-limits-iii.jpg

I wouldn't normally use this much limiting but I thought it would be a good indicator. Dev says no distortion, I think it's quite minimal as he says actually.

Track Limiter & Pro-L are doing about 4.5 to almost 6dB reduction. I matched the settings attack and release as I could. Considering Pro-L is the best I've used, It is good.

I'll try to figure out a more meaningful example with better material.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Pretty good I'd say.
so you get the NFR .. write me a pm so that i can send it to your work email adress ...


p.s.: nice tune .. ..
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
The Pro-L sample has 2db more RMS level. Try to match the RMS for real comparison. Although the Track limiter has 2db less RMS it kills more transient than the Pro-L that have 2db more RMS level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Pretty good I'd say.

I wouldn't normally use this much limiting but I thought it would be a good indicator. Dev says no distortion, I think it's quite minimal as he says actually.

Track Limiter & Pro-L are doing about 4.5 to almost 6dB reduction. I matched the settings attack and release as I could. Considering Pro-L is the best I've used, It is good.

I'll try to figure out a more meaningful example with better material.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian Schnurle ➡️
so you get the NFR .. write me a pm so that i can send it to your work email adress ...


p.s.: nice tune .. ..
Thanks! Very kind.

I am going to try to put up a better, more "real world" example as soon as I can.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein ➡️
The Pro-L sample has 2db more RMS level. Try to match the RMS for real comparison. Although the Track limiter has 2db less RMS it kills more transient than the Pro-L that have 2db more RMS level.
Are you saying that Pro-L is doing more GR than Track Limiter here?
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Look for yourself with a RMS meter.. Maybe the release is longer on the Track Limiter so it wont recover as fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Are you saying that Pro-L is doing more GR than Track Limiter here?
Old 25th September 2012
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
They are all doing 2.5 to 3dB reduction (from what I can tell from the meters)

Its 4 bars 4 bars 4 bars etc

Track Limiter / Pro-L / BX_XL / Barricade / Limiter6 / AA CL1 (Limiter set to clip)

Embrace Limiters ex.mp3

There are differences, subtle though. I think this is a better real world example.
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU ➡️
No matter how cheap it seams, a plugin that stops working after one year sounds really strange to me.
Yes.

And though I use a dongle like most of us, I really prefer how Toontrack and others handle CP.

TH
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Addict
 
Aux13's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian Schnurle ➡️
....in these six years operating systems and hardware has changed twice .. so i assume the 25,- euro plug-in has to be bought twice again, so it is 75,- -.-

and if not, how the hell is this developer surviving ? .. i want to know that, because he must have found the potion of life ....
I'll quote Meldaproduction policy:

Free-for-life updates

We provide free-for-life updates for all of our products. This means that you will never need to pay to upgrade our software!

Any update to any software is free for our customers!
Usually you have to pay for upgrades of most software of other companies. Not here at MeldaProduction! When you purchase any software, you will be granted free upgrades forever!

Any software added to a bundle is free for owners of the bundle!
Everytime we release a software and add it to a bundle, we give it to owners of the bundle for free. Of course, we have free-for-life updates at MeldaProduction!

p.s. This year they release six or seven new plugs I think....and upgrade software few times...
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aux13 ➡️
I'll quote Meldaproduction policy.
this is super cool, no doubt .. the total bundle is at EUR600,- .. you need to be subscribed almost 20 years to pay the same amount with axis plug-ins ... we will see if axis plug-ins will be still there in two decades or meldaproduction .. do you know it now ? ...
Old 25th September 2012
  #57
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
axis plug-ins one and only intention is to offer the user the opportunity to have quality plug-ins at low cost, without the stress of cracking them .. and even for small studios scaling can be important, maybe you need two licenses and you do not want to carry the highly important dongle around with you at all time .. the costs are minimal then and if you do not need two licenses anymore, you just cancel one with a mouse click ..
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Addict
 
Aux13's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian Schnurle ➡️
this is super cool, no doubt .. the total bundle is at EUR600,- .. you need to be subscribed almost 20 years to pay the same amount with axis plug-ins ... we will see if axis plug-ins will be still there in two decades or meldaproduction .. do you know it now ? ...
Let's be straight. In june Axis yearly fee was 79 eur, now is 39, cool. In april Melda sold Total bundle for a little more than 400 eur = ten years Axis fee = more than 60 plugins. So Axis has to produce six plugs per year ( huh ) to be where Melda is right now...

In two decades probably cardiac pacemaker will be the only plugin I'll need.

Now back to the Track Limiter....
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Nut
 
Bastian Schnurle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aux13 ➡️
In two decades probably cardiac pacemaker will be the only plugin I'll need.
hahahaha, yeah, ... true ... i think i got a bit fierce this short time i am posting here ... i would be very happy to go on discussing the track limiter ... especially what you guys think in comparison to the other limiter plug-ins that are around ?
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
They are all doing 2.5 to 3dB reduction (from what I can tell from the meters)

Its 4 bars 4 bars 4 bars etc

Track Limiter / Pro-L / BX_XL / Barricade / Limiter6 / AA CL1 (Limiter set to clip)

Attachment 310612

There are differences, subtle though. I think this is a better real world example.
interesting. maybe I am biased here, but Track Limiter is harsh with transients, Pro-L seems better here. Quite surprised by Barricade, very transparent, I think that's my favourite. Limiter6 seems to colour the sound a bit, but in a nice way. AA CL1 very similar.

do you also have Elephant to compare it to?

to conclude my point: Barricade is 15 EUR, Limiter6 is free -- plus if I have several machines my Axis subscription would multiply, whereas I am allowed to use the other plugins on several machines. clear winner.

guess I have to get Barricade, impressive sound.
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