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Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I like them both.They both bring the drums out nice.Like I said above,they are both great emulations and I am sure you could tweak either to get what you are looking for.The UAD does have different LP filter settings,a greater range anyway.
And the drums sound way better on the UAD version.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #242
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
Full song .wavs Just a quick run thru but enough to hear the difference.The original is the whole song so skip near the end to hear the part about 3:00.

Originalhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/Orgnl.wav

UADhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/UAD.wav

NIhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/NI.wav
Neither sounds bad, but are they both set exactly the same? I feel like the NI version has more top end and overall a bit too bright and airy. It feels a little weaker in the bass as well. The UAD version retains the solid feel. But I think this comes down to settings right?

On some parts the NI version sounds tinny though. Brighter, yet more distant and less focused.

I don't know, these listening tests are difficult.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #243
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User ➡️
I can't see why anyone w/ access to the UAD would want to use the NI one. The UAD one is massively clearer. The NI one sounds way processed and exactly what everyone complaims about w/ ITB sounds.
Once again, with respect, have you tried them both side by side with different sources or are you judging only on the samples that krheatman provided? I haven't heard them yet but based on my own testing I feel that the NI is a VERY worthwhile tool.
Old 16th September 2012
  #244
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
6db of boost , 3db , 13 db ...who care , you guyz read or listen ....i love eq's when i don't see no graph , and i don't care what values are ....so the debate about values isn't worth i think , unless the guy just want to explain that 3 db on NI and UAD sisn't the same , witch is something we all know , matching settings ain't the right way to compare plugins ....


Again calling people debatting on the eq Noobs isn't a constructive move ...post like this don't give you at all the credit to not be a noob ...or to be a pro ...Mister Dapolitto

......back to fun ...
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #245
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Neither sounds bad, but are they both set exactly the same? I feel like the NI version has more top end and overall a bit too bright and airy. It feels a little weaker in the bass as well. The UAD version retains the solid feel. But I think this comes down to settings right?

On some parts the NI version sounds tinny though. Brighter, yet more distant and less focused.

I don't know, these listening tests are difficult.
The same values on both sound different.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #246
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasoundjunkie ➡️
The same values on both sound different.
Yes I've had this problem trying to compare Eq's before.

Honestly I've heard people talking about curves and seen people match and null Eq curves. But that really isn't me, I don't quite care if I can do the same think on a parametric, if it's going to take me so long to set it up each time.

And it's one thing to mimic an Eq setting when you have said Eq to mimic and another thing to come up with Eq curves that work so well on your own. I am just not there yet and I love these quick tools.

The Passive EQ will be the second M/S eq I have, the other being T-racks, and I like the Passive Eq more.

I don't have a pultec emu anymore, sold my PSP NobleQ because I never ended up keeping it on the mix. Something I didn't like about it. Maybe the manley version is softer and less harsh because thats how the plug-in feels to me compared to the Noble Q.

The compressor is mad and not like anything I have. Really hi-fi sounding if I can put it that way, got a really real and expensive sound. When you push it it sounds great. It is pretty cool in limit mode, I've been playing around with it more, it really shines with drastic settings for me.

I'm thinking of getting all three of these plug-ins for the $230. I was saving up for the Vertigo and some Elysia plug-ins which I still want to get, but you can see the value here.

I think the vari-mu would be a good compliment to the Mpressor for example, very different uses.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #247
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Neither sounds bad, but are they both set exactly the same? I feel like the NI version has more top end and overall a bit too bright and airy. It feels a little weaker in the bass as well. The UAD version retains the solid feel. But I think this comes down to settings right?

On some parts the NI version sounds tinny though. Brighter, yet more distant and less focused.

I don't know, these listening tests are difficult.
I have been going back and forth on them and the UAD is just plain smoother sounding.The NI is a little harsh with the settings the same.Here is my screen printed.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #248
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasoundjunkie ➡️
Once again, with respect, have you tried them both side by side with different sources or are you judging only on the samples that krheatman provided? I haven't heard them yet but based on my own testing I feel that the NI is a VERY worthwhile tool.
The Vari is very nice also.I think the settings are just different on the EQ's,I am sure I could get them to match,but the Master rock setting was the basis I used for them based on the UAD.The NI is just brighter at those same settings.You would have to get them both side by side and do your own test.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #249
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I have been going back and forth on them and the UAD is just plain smoother sounding.The NI is a little harsh with the settings the same.Here is my screen printed.
Thanks for all the contribution. I have to make purchases carefully because of budget so all this discussion and examples really help.

Wow, you set them to the same settings and they sound so different! So far in my use, I don't like boosting the hi-end too much with the NI Passive Eq, 2K onwards needs subtle treatment, it gets harsh easily and sizzles in a not so nice way, butI don't know if that's just the material I am working with (electronic drum samples and synths) so I am going to try it on a full acoustic mix. I love it's bass and mid-range so far though.

It would be interesting to try to get the two to match in sound as much as possible and then compare, though I expect the differences must be subtle. I think it's a matter of calibration or maybe there were some differences in the units used. Who knows, maybe just one or the other was no accurate in the emulation.

In the end though, are either of them bad? because the UAD costs more especially if you don't already have a card. Are there better itb passive Eq emulations that cost the same or less than this NI option? those are important questions when it comes to this Eq. I mean, is the difference so drastic, and the NI version so poor, that you feel compelled to advise people to buy a UAD card and add plug-ins to that instead? I expect not.

Is the direct competitor to the NI eq the SPL Passeq?

I was just thinking, if Softube had released the Vari-mu themselves, with a nice photo-realistic GUI and sold it for $229 I bet people would have looked at these in a different way. I think the same would have been true if they released this passive EQ in the same way.

I think that the sound of these plug-ins in their own right is what will matter most in the end for most people.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #250
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Thanks for all the contribution. I have to make purchases carefully because of budget so all this discussion and examples really help.

Wow, you set them to the same settings and they sound so different! So far in my use, I don't like boosting the hi-end too much with the NI Passive Eq, 2K onwards needs subtle treatment, it gets harsh easily and sizzles in a not so nice way, butI don't know if that's just the material I am working with (electronic drum samples and synths) so I am going to try it on a full acoustic mix. I love it's bass and mid-range so far though.

It would be interesting to try to get the two to match in sound as much as possible and then compare, though I expect the differences must be subtle. I think it's a matter of calibration or maybe there were some differences in the units used. Who knows, maybe just one or the other was no accurate in the emulation.

In the end though, are either of them bad? because the UAD costs more especially if you don't already have a card. Are there better itb passive Eq emulations that cost the same or less than this NI option? those are important questions when it comes to this Eq. I mean, is the difference so drastic, and the NI version so poor, that you feel compelled to advise people to buy a UAD card and add plug-ins to that instead? I expect not.

Is the direct competitor to the NI eq the SPL Passeq?

I was just thinking, if Softube had released the Vari-mu themselves, with a nice photo-realistic GUI and sold it for $229 I bet people would have looked at these in a different way. I think the same would have been true if they released this passive EQ in the same way.

I think that the sound of these plug-ins in their own right is what will matter most in the end for most people.
I have been trying to match them for an hour and can't get the same smoothness in the highs the UAD has.I have tried everything.I am using lavry conv w/ Klein and Hummel O300d's and Senn HD 600's in a treated room.If I didn't have the UAD and wasn't going back and forth trying to match it you would never know.And it is more that everthing seems right in the sound stage,the vocals kick and snare are present in the UAD but not in the NI.I can't get them all there the same?????
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #251
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Truth be told,if these two could be matched,people wouldn't be buying the UAD plugin.The Vari plugin sounds and works great though.I don't know why the UAD sounds better on the top end,but it could be what most people like about all their plugs in the first place.They don't have a Vari-mu yet,I thought they were doing the Thermionic Phoenix,but this one will work just fine.The Gluefication preset is great.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #252
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
With the lowpass at 18k it sounds smoother
Old 16th September 2012
  #253
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasoundjunkie ➡️
With the lowpass at 18k it sounds smoother
I tried even lower.It doesn't sound bad,just not the same.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 16th September 2012
  #254
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Macaroni's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I rest my case.


Quote:
I'm really not trying to start a debate but has anyone other than me actually owned the hardware? I used the original every day for almost 5 years, the UAD has nailed the sound of the original, otherwise I would have scraped the money together and bought it again. This was my favorite piece of gear every day that I owned it and if I hadn't hit a rough patch I would probably still have it.

When I first tried out the UAD I did extensive comparisons with mine (sold it to a friend so I still have access to it) and the only barely discernible difference I could hear was that the plug sounded slightly tighter in the low end.

With all due respect, unless you have first hand experience with the unit vs the plug then this statement (in this particular case mind you) is just not true
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #255
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I have been going back and forth on them and the UAD is just plain smoother sounding.The NI is a little harsh with the settings the same.Here is my screen printed.
Just like to point out that the pdf shows the UAD Mastering Edition of the MP besides the NI version. The Mastering edition only has 11dB cut/boost per band while the standard edition has 20dB.

With the knobs matched like this the NI version has much extremer cut/boost settings. The UAD standard MP should be used for comparisons.
Old 16th September 2012
  #256
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'm going to wait until Komplete 9 ultimate, I wonder what other products they will release before that?
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #257
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I have been going back and forth on them and the UAD is just plain smoother sounding.The NI is a little harsh with the settings the same.Here is my screen printed.
Your test is flawed. The mastering version and standard version are too drastically different to compare. Explained below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moellhoven ➡️
Just like to point out that the pdf shows the UAD Mastering Edition of the MP besides the NI version. The Mastering edition only has 11dB cut/boost per band while the standard edition has 20dB.

With the knobs matched like this the NI version has much extremer cut/boost settings. The UAD standard MP should be used for comparisons.
Bingo. Online comparison usually prove what the tester wants to prove or there are serious flaws like this one that makes one sound worse by omission. As stated earlier in this thread myself and a colleague did our own in house test in our own room. The UA Standard MP and NI Passive are extremely close. It's just a matter of preference. Softube nailed it. But there will be obvious differences because UA and Softube did not model the same exact tube passive unit. For someone who does not have a UAD2 Quad, price wise it's no contest.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #258
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I have been going back and forth on them and the UAD is just plain smoother sounding.The NI is a little harsh with the settings the same.Here is my screen printed.
Can be explained very easily

The Master version of the UAD MP has a maximum of 11db cut/boost the NI/Softube has max of 20db cut and boost. (!!!);

-> Knobs at the sam position drastic differences while cutting/boosting. Take a look the screenshots again!

Attached Files
File Type: pdf MP.pdf (656.0 KB, 251 views)
Old 16th September 2012
  #259
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
People, use the VST Plug-in Analyzer or Waves Q-Clone to match the curves, please!
How EQs could be compared if they're not properly matched?! Be objective at least in setting things. This is not UAD MP vs some parametric eq...they both emulate the same unit.
Old 16th September 2012
  #260
Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do ➡️
Your test is flawed. The mastering version and standard version are too drastically different to compare. Explained below.



Bingo. Online comparison usually prove what the tester wants to prove or there are serious flaws like this one that makes one sound worse by omission. As stated earlier in this thread myself and a colleague did our own in house test in our own room. The UA Standard MP and NI Passive are extremely close. It's just a matter of preference. Softube nailed it. But there will be obvious differences because UA and Softube did not model the same exact tube passive unit. For someone who does not have a UAD2 Quad, price wise it's no contest.
+1
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #261
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A/B-ing is for squares. Use your ears, make a quick judgement call, and move forward.

- c
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #262
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➡️
A/B-ing is for squares. Use your ears, make a quick judgement call, and move forward.

- c
And what did your ears tell you
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #263
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Neither sounds bad, but are they both set exactly the same? I feel like the NI version has more top end and overall a bit too bright and airy.
If they are - Then don't set them exactly the same. Simply remove some air. Why do you people give so much about the GUI readouts or where the knobs are at? EQS like these are never doing what they pretend to do. If you want EQS that actually do what they say, use eqs like psp neon, ssl X-Eq etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop666 ➡️
The Master version of the UAD MP has a maximum of 11db cut/boost the NI/Softube has max of 20db cut and boost. (!!!);
The NI does not boost 20 db at all just because it says so. You are one of those ... who scream "omg I just raised 5k by 120 db and it still sounds great!!!" when the EQ in reality just raised 0.5 db.

My "favourite" eqs are those that even give you wrong khz readouts. Move the knob to 3k when in reality you are focusing on 2.6 or so.
Old 16th September 2012
  #264
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
And on another note: I am surprised that the first two pages or so favoured the NI (which I agreed with). I thought the UAD fanboys with their crap cards would have chimed in from post #2 already.
Old 16th September 2012
  #265
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dappolito ➡️
And on another note: I am surprised that the first two pages or so favoured the NI (which I agreed with). I thought the UAD fanboys with their crap cards would have chimed in from post #2 already.
I'm a uad fanboy,but the NI bundle is a really good bundle.

I swapped out my 2 buss chain with the NI bundle,leaving ampex 102,Vcc and precision limiter.

My music sound better than before,its a bit darker,but smoother.I'm going do the same with the uad mp,I'm so impressed by both eq's!

Loving the varicomp,I'm loving 'the glue' as well.the glue attack time is much faster than the Vari,so I approach them differently.I couldn't get the ubk demo to work on my pc,so ill try it on MAC.

I like the density the bundle give my music.

Plus my uad cards are on pc,to have these dongle free NI plugins up and running on mac and pc simultaneously is PURE BLISS!

I've been able to authorize all my computers(as many as 5)with NI stuff,they are very good when it comes to authorizing there Plugins.

The best in the business,and I never cheated.not once!

Ni bundle improved my logic pro mixes vastly.

Is there anyone that don't like the NI bundle?

Sent from my PC36100
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #266
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dappolito ➡️
And on another note: I am surprised that the first two pages or so favoured the NI (which I agreed with). I thought the UAD fanboys with their crap cards would have chimed in from post #2 already.
The first FLYINGJAY A/B didn't appear till page 3. His second was on Page 7.
krheatmans was on the page before this.

maybe thats why ?
Old 16th September 2012
  #267
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
So far, definitely want this compressor. Eq's, I'm not sure. Might rather save up for the SPL Passeq.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #268
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
Full song .wavs Just a quick run thru but enough to hear the difference.The original is the whole song so skip near the end to hear the part about 3:00.

Originalhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/Orgnl.wav

UADhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/UAD.wav

NIhttps://dl.dropbox.com/u/3786838/MP%20Test/NI.wav
The UAD version sounds better to me, more balanced while the NI sounds brighter and subtlely thinner.

But that's because of this, the range of the knobs are different because of the Mastering version of the UAD Massive Passive.

So the test is FLAWED !

The values look like that (almost) :
Attached Thumbnails
Native Instruments Premium Tube Series-passive.jpg  
Old 16th September 2012
  #269
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyc ➡️
The first FLYINGJAY A/B didn't appear till page 3. His second was on Page 7.
krheatmans was on the page before this.

maybe thats why ?
Not scientific or even matching as someone pointed out,wasn't intended to be.I just couldn't get what I liked about the UAD out of the NI.Maybe after I play with the m/s some more.
The file was not mastered either which adds a lot of low end to that file,and that would change things also.
So take it easy you cheeseballs thinking I am stacking the deck,I could care less either way.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #270
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
So far, definitely want this compressor. Eq's, I'm not sure. Might rather save up for the SPL Passeq.
SPL PassEq is really something, in my book is one of the top3
sw eq. Best top end and subs on the market, unfortunately
there's something I don't like with the mid bands (the only
reason because I don't actually own it), but is crazy
how good that thing is to add both weight and air
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