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Old 23rd September 2012
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
Are you ok ?

I think that's a gun pointing to his head?

Sent from my PC36100
Old 23rd September 2012
  #662
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🎧 10 years
yep also ......
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #663
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🎧 5 years
I think the van hit the water.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #664
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I got this off the UAD forum.From Eric Dahlberg at JRR Shop
I put the interesting part in BOLD at the bottom.


Re: New Manley Emulations
by Eric Dahlberg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:30 pm

LFranco wrote:
This plug-in game is really predictable, here's what you can expect any time a good emulation is released by UA:

1. A native version gets released (and people who are fans of native will say how close it is to the UAD version and how you can run 1,000 instances on their kick-ass CPU).

2. Nebula fans will chime in and say that there's a Nebula impulse that sounds exactly like the hardware (and if the interface is too clunky, takes a long time to load, and you can only use one instance and need to print/freeze each track, it's all good because who's in a rush to make music anyway?)

3. Waves will release their own version, which will have a much more awesome GUI and analog noise on/off switch (but will still have that Waves' "cheap" sound to it).



Don't forget, the native versions will also have built-in saturation to emulate "tube warmth". The only thing is that Manley specifically designs their products not to saturate.
Best wishes to you and yours,

Uncle E

TEL: 855-557-7577 (855 5 JRR JRR)
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Eric Dahlberg

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Old 24th September 2012
  #665
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🎧 10 years
Funny post , but saying that waves plugins are cheap is just what gave the whole thing no credit .....

As we spoke about the NI 1176 and La2a , i spent a good 1h30 on today , first to compare with the FET (sounds close but not excactly the same) and then i tried the CLA 2a and i was surprised how the cla was really good sounding on my drums (usually i used it on vocals , guitars , arrepeggio ect ...)way better that the NI , better than my Sonar X1 PC module , and better thzn a lot of other comp i then tried ...then i tried the cla 1176 witch was less "dirty" and , distorted really less easy .....i finished by trying all my comp and doing a death match between ssl duende versus ssl waves ...

And for real , my thought was : "those m...f.... make some good plugins !!" ....M..F...is affective here .....i still think that the CL1B and the tla 100 are the best softube comp ....

this was on my main rig so i din't tried versus the vari mu witch is on my lappy ....
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #666
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11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I got this off the UAD forum.From Eric Dahlberg at JRR Shop
I put the interesting part in BOLD at the bottom.


Re: New Manley Emulations
by Eric Dahlberg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:30 pm

LFranco wrote:
This plug-in game is really predictable, here's what you can expect any time a good emulation is released by UA:

1. A native version gets released (and people who are fans of native will say how close it is to the UAD version and how you can run 1,000 instances on their kick-ass CPU).

2. Nebula fans will chime in and say that there's a Nebula impulse that sounds exactly like the hardware (and if the interface is too clunky, takes a long time to load, and you can only use one instance and need to print/freeze each track, it's all good because who's in a rush to make music anyway?)

3. Waves will release their own version, which will have a much more awesome GUI and analog noise on/off switch (but will still have that Waves' "cheap" sound to it).



Don't forget, the native versions will also have built-in saturation to emulate "tube warmth". The only thing is that Manley specifically designs their products not to saturate.
Best wishes to you and yours,

Uncle E

TEL: 855-557-7577 (855 5 JRR JRR)
TEL: 714-760-9080 (International)
FAX: 678-550-1022
JRRshop.com :
david's konstruktiv kitty tribute
Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of Musical Dreams Fulfilled


Posts: 3323
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: USA
That is kind of funny. But perhaps just an exaggeration of the truth.

I think in the end if the plug-in sounds good and works for you buy it. But there is another aspect of this. If these plug-ins are advertised to be something, we pay expecting that.

Many of us have never heard/experienced a real Massive Passive in person, but we see pictures of them in many studios and mastering houses, they are renowned and praised by some of the best in the business. Mastering Engineers in particular are well known for doing very little to a good mix, but that very little improves the sound a fair amount. Among other things the very well designed gear they have helps them achieve this sound.

If a software developer comes along and promises to give you that same ability it is very enticing. If it turns out not to be true, it is really taking advantage of peoples good faith.

In this case with NI and Softube, the plug-ins are not stated to be emulating anything, though it is very clearly indicated by the GUI. If the plug-ins are not modelling the hardware that they plug-ins obviously resemble, then it really is a case of coarse marketing technique.

I emailed Softube yesterday to get some more information on these plug-ins. I'll let you all know if there is a reply.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #667
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11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
Funny post , but saying that waves plugins are cheap is just what gave the whole thing no credit .....

As we spoke about the NI 1176 and La2a , i sent a good 1h30 on today , first to compare with the FET (sounds close but not excactly the same) and then i tried the CLA 2a and i was surprised how the cla was really good soudubg on my drums way better that the NI , better than my Sonar X1 PC module , and better thzn a lot of other comp i then tried ...then i tried the cla 1176 witch was less "dirty" and distorted really less easy .....i finished by tried all my comp and doing a death match between ssl duende versus ssl waves ...

And for real , my thought was : "those m...f.... make some good plugins !!" ....M..F...is affective here .....i still think that the CL1B and the tla 100 are thhe best softube comp ....

this was on my main rig so i din't tried versus the vari mu witch is on my lappy ....
Jeezo do you find a lot of use for the CL1B in dance music (if you do any dance music?) I just found for electronic drums it grabbed the sound too much as was too aggressive, and sucked the impact out of the drums and made the sound too smooth.

I want to ask Softube for a new demo licence though as I've learned a lot about compressors since I last used it.
Old 24th September 2012
  #668
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🎧 10 years
Maybe time for a video on it


the cl1B is one of those plugins that made me want to try thr HW hard !!

its , for me , one of the most versatyle comp around ...for real , give me only cl1B as comp duties andi will be happy from track to mastering !!

Yes for dance it can be wiked , just have to play with it ...also it depends wher do you use it ....on buses , slower the attack and don't GR more than 3 db ..on tracks , it's a pure joy , specially on snares!! , also my goto on vocals (female and some male) ....
Old 24th September 2012
  #669
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🎧 10 years
you can send me a track (parts ) and i will use it
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #670
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
That is kind of funny. But perhaps just an exaggeration of the truth.

I think in the end if the plug-in sounds good and works for you buy it. But there is another aspect of this. If these plug-ins are advertised to be something, we pay expecting that.

Many of us have never heard/experienced a real Massive Passive in person, but we see pictures of them in many studios and mastering houses, they are renowned and praised by some of the best in the business. Mastering Engineers in particular are well known for doing very little to a good mix, but that very little improves the sound a fair amount. Among other things the very well designed gear they have helps them achieve this sound.

If a software developer comes along and promises to give you that same ability it is very enticing. If it turns out not to be true, it is really taking advantage of peoples good faith.

In this case with NI and Softube, the plug-ins are not stated to be emulating anything, though it is very clearly indicated by the GUI. If the plug-ins are not modelling the hardware that they plug-ins obviously resemble, then it really is a case of coarse marketing technique.

I emailed Softube yesterday to get some more information on these plug-ins. I'll let you all know if there is a reply.
I was getting more at the note of how the native versions will have saturation where the Manley won't.That would be a good comparison for any of the native Passive EQ's compared to UAD.
If it saturates it is not like the hardware,according to Eric.
Old 24th September 2012
  #671
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🎧 10 years
every hardware have a room and so at one point saturate !! no ?

if it's the same or not ...well no big deal for me ...if i want sat , i "tape" or "console emu" it !!
Old 24th September 2012
  #672
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I actually like this post!

As for waves sounding cheap...well I prefer uad emu's over waves.I don't think waves emu's are their strong area,and IMHO poor attempts in some cases.but waves make some good plugins,excluding their emulations.

I'm still toying with the ni bundle vs everything else and im finding them to be some of the best plugins I own alongside my uad plugins.

No regrets on buying the ni bundle,NONE AT ALL!!!!

Sent from my AT100
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #673
Deleted e1b9f94
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I was getting more at the note of how the native versions will have saturation where the Manley won't.That would be a good comparison for any of the native Passive EQ's compared to UAD.
If it saturates it is not like the hardware,according to Eric.
Really ? And Eric is? Who exactly? I am finding this pretty hilarious because if you visit Manley Massive Passive official website it say that this EQ is Tube based EQ (last time when i checked digital DSP wizards (even uad ones) claimed that tube effect in digital domain is all about saturation being done properly) but overall if you look reviews on MP page for both EQ you'll find plenty of creditable engineers and remixers claiming that massive passive EQ is giving them: This all made for an impressive warm sound that so many engineers fell in love with. And coupled with the use of inductors, transformers and tubes, it gave a unique saturated sound that had plenty of headroom.
And if you look reviews elsewhere you'll find that quite a lot of people are reporting same thing. Amazing saturated sound.

So if one guy is claiming that it shouldn't saturate because then it's not like real thing why then rest of the world praise that same effect in hardware? Isn't that crazy?
Old 24th September 2012
  #674
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I actually think NI passive eq is warmer than uad massive passive.

Uad mp seems cleaner,sharper and tighter.

NI is more tube like from my experience with tubes ie,several tube pre's and mics.

As well as other digital emulations of tube gear that has been approved and adored by many.



Sent from my PC36100
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #675
bitewounds
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
I got this off the UAD forum.From Eric Dahlberg at JRR Shop
I put the interesting part in BOLD at the bottom.


Re: New Manley Emulations
by Eric Dahlberg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:30 pm

LFranco wrote:
This plug-in game is really predictable, here's what you can expect any time a good emulation is released by UA:

1. A native version gets released (and people who are fans of native will say how close it is to the UAD version and how you can run 1,000 instances on their kick-ass CPU).

2. Nebula fans will chime in and say that there's a Nebula impulse that sounds exactly like the hardware (and if the interface is too clunky, takes a long time to load, and you can only use one instance and need to print/freeze each track, it's all good because who's in a rush to make music anyway?)

3. Waves will release their own version, which will have a much more awesome GUI and analog noise on/off switch (but will still have that Waves' "cheap" sound to it).



Don't forget, the native versions will also have built-in saturation to emulate "tube warmth". The only thing is that Manley specifically designs their products not to saturate.
Best wishes to you and yours,

Uncle E

TEL: 855-557-7577 (855 5 JRR JRR)
TEL: 714-760-9080 (International)
FAX: 678-550-1022
JRRshop.com :
david's konstruktiv kitty tribute
Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of Musical Dreams Fulfilled


Posts: 3323
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: USA
So spot on! Well observed! It's like.. when people go buy a Mars bar, it usually goes like this:

A) Customer picks a Mars bar, usually from the top layer
B) Cashier tells them how much Mars bar costs
C) Customer pays Mars bar, and in 99% of all cases leaves the store.

It's so predictable, always the same. Pathetic. Needed to be pointed out.
...
Old 24th September 2012
  #676
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Even if Manley designed their hardware "not to saturate", it does.

Even a low-levels, which is pointed out by the head dsp engineer at Universal Audio, don't remember his name, in the trailer video of the UAD Massive Passive.

Do I have to point out that, to actually make the NI PASSIVE EQ to sound like a tube saturation unit, you have to drive it with insane levels ? Try +18, +24, +36dBFS...

So at reasonable standard mixing levels, it sounds really clean.

Anyway, this talk about "I'm better than you, because I emulate transistor number 5412" or whatever is getting ridiculous.
Old 24th September 2012
  #677
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
The only thing is that Manley specifically designs their products not to saturate
Of course they try to get the design as clean as possible but that does not mean that it does not actually saturates in the end - which is unavoidable with tubes.

If they wanted it to be clean I assume they would rather go solid-state and not tubes...

It is the whole point and somehow engineer's "artistic choice" to take a genuinely dirty/warm device like tubes and then try and make a design around it to get it as clean as it can get.
The idea of the MP engineer(s) being probably to get something hi-end and clean with the subtle warmth quality inherent to tubes. Just my 2 cents.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #678
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
.....i still think that the CL1B and the tla 100 are the best softube comp ....
Me, too. Although I still think the Powecore CL1B sounds better (different) than Softube's... for whatever reason. Softube's version sounds 'cleaner'. Powercore version sounds 'warmer'.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #679
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➡️
Even if Manley designed their hardware "not to saturate", it does.

Even a low-levels, which is pointed out by the head dsp engineer at Universal Audio, don't remember his name, in the trailer video of the UAD Massive Passive.

Do I have to point out that, to actually make the NI PASSIVE EQ to sound like a tube saturation unit, you have to drive it with insane levels ? Try +18, +24, +36dBFS...

So at reasonable standard mixing levels, it sounds really clean.

Anyway, this talk about "I'm better than you, because I emulate transistor number 5412" or whatever is getting ridiculous.
Agreed!
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #680
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut ➡️
Me, too. Although I still think the Powecore CL1B sounds better (different) than Softube's... for whatever reason. Softube's version sounds 'cleaner'. Powercore version sounds 'warmer'.
Do you realize that both version made by Softube?
Old 24th September 2012
  #681
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod ➡️
Really ? And Eric is? Who exactly? I am finding this pretty hilarious because if you visit Manley Massive Passive official website it say that this EQ is Tube based EQ (last time when i checked digital DSP wizards (even uad ones) claimed that tube effect in digital domain is all about saturation being done properly) but overall if you look reviews on MP page for both EQ you'll find plenty of creditable engineers and remixers claiming that massive passive EQ is giving them: This all made for an impressive warm sound that so many engineers fell in love with. And coupled with the use of inductors, transformers and tubes, it gave a unique saturated sound that had plenty of headroom.
And if you look reviews elsewhere you'll find that quite a lot of people are reporting same thing. Amazing saturated sound.

So if one guy is claiming that it shouldn't saturate because then it's not like real thing why then rest of the world praise that same effect in hardware? Isn't that crazy?
And if you read the UAD tech notes you will find that modeling the tubes is not where most of the character came from,they were transparent,it was the transformers,if anything.I would bet the UAD does not saturate any where near the NI Passive when driven.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #682
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danger ➡️
Do you realize that both version made by Softube?
And So ? this is a question of calculation and he might be right , i had the same feeling with the duende ....going native

DSP are digital signal processingand are specialise in one type of calculation , fast quik , done in one clock cycle !!

Regular CPU are not the same and don't have the same "instructions" (type of calculations possible)

So most of the time you will have to retweak the algorythm /code to porte it native my friend ...

As TDM /native users will tell you also ...this is why they came up with the AAX , to avoid this difference and to have one code for both DSP and native base plugin ....

Back to NI


Anybody have a 1176 near ?
Old 24th September 2012
  #683
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mokafix ➡️
Of course they try to get the design as clean as possible but that does not mean that it does not actually saturates in the end - which is unavoidable with tubes.

If they wanted it to be clean I assume they would rather go solid-state and not tubes...

It is the whole point and somehow engineer's "artistic choice" to take a genuinely dirty/warm device like tubes and then try and make a design around it to get it as clean as it can get.
The idea of the MP engineer(s) being probably to get something hi-end and clean with the subtle warmth quality inherent to tubes. Just my 2 cents.
Agreed.I do think you would have to really overload it though.When I had the hardware,it was more just soft high end,and pillowy bottom.Although it does not have a lot of color.My Thermionic Phoenix is the same,warmth without changing the color drastically.
Waiting for UAD to put out a dsp heavy ,high res vari mu, like the Thermionic.Come on.

EDIT:Wait,let me sell mine first.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 24th September 2012
  #684
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🎧 10 years
i think it was safe until 36 db witch is pretty hot ....(and 120 db dynmaic range)
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #685
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
i think it was safe until 36 db witch is pretty hot ....(and 120 db dynmaic range)
What was?

Here are some samples:

A really bad song and probably not the best example to use, but put through the NI Massive Passive to have a listen to it's distortion.

Korma (mild)
India Vocal Mix Korma.wav

Madras (hot)
India Vocal Mix Madras.wav

Vindaloo (very hot)
India Vocal Mix Vindaloo.wav

You could even use it on a drum buss or something to give a bit of distortion. I don't think I have any nice acoustic drum loops to try it out on but I will see.
Old 24th September 2012
  #686
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🎧 10 years
Aiyn , i was talking about the hardware (if that was your question)
Old 24th September 2012
  #687
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🎧 10 years
oh yeah and it's not at all a really bad song ....never censure yourself !! (learned from my manager and so true !!)
Old 24th September 2012
  #688
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Here is a bass sample run through at a very hot level

That is a pretty good distortion effect, this was without engaging EQ, which can make things even more interesting.

Bass Non Sat.wav
Bass Sat.wav
Old 24th September 2012
  #689
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🎧 10 years
The sat is obvious dude !! you see how the delay goes up ...nice on this bass (too much butnice example)

In EDM i tend to master dynamic with Satuartion better than limiting ...some erratic arrpegios , synth and other stuff , instaed of compressing / militing , i tend to try first saturation ....

the VCC Tube is good for that ...satbilize a sound in space and give it character ....

i never thought about using this eq as sat !!
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #690
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11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
oh yeah and it's not at all a really bad song ....never censure yourself !! (learned from my manager and so true !!)
Well there is minimal composition on my part, I just took good samples and made a harsh mix.

But you are right about that.

And I got my reply from Softube, They said non-tech questions should be directed at NI but they did give me a few answers. They said the distortion is about the same on these as on the real units when driving by +4dBu

And that they take the same care, intensity and attention to detail on all products.
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