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Old 18th September 2012
  #421
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Yes it's really interesting.

The Enhance EQ is very clean, the Passive is "Enhanced"

Native Instruments Premium Tube Series-enhance-eq.png
Native Instruments Premium Tube Series-passive-eq-hd.png

So the Ehanced Eq is perfect for clean boosts & Cuts while the Passive really does do something just by adding it to the track. I find it a bit too much though, it creates a lot of high end hype that can make the bottom sound weaker. It would have been nice to have a HD knob to control how clean or distorted we wanted it to be.

And for comparison to another passive, the SPL Passeq

Native Instruments Premium Tube Series-passeq-hd.jpg
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #422
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Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl ➡️
The VST Plug-in Analyser sends -6 dBFS sine signal into a plug-in while testing it so if you want to further decrease the harmonic content added by the plug-in lover your signals volume prior the plug. The harmonics are input dependent and the input knob controls it just partly. Other help is the gain stage before processing the signal with the plug.
Yes I was wondering about that, but I haven't figure out how to lower the volume yet.

The NI passive EQ shows no change in HDC at when lowering or increasing the overall gain. It does show differences when booting frequencies. Especially the high ones.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #423
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Can somebody interpret this?

It's the Vari-mu pushed to the max. If I turn the input down the harmonic distortion decreases . The lowest I can get it to is -43dB.

Attachment 309510

As you can see, on limit mode such as in this graph, and pushed to the max, it has -2dB THD

So, are we talking about for the most part good harmonics or just mess?

Of course pushed like this it won't sound good, so lets look at another one in a minute. But it basically looks similar to this.

Attachment 309511

Just turning up the input knob from it's minimum value to it's maximum the THD goes from -35dB to -17dB on comp mode. Does this explain why when I slam the input I feel my mouth curve into a smile?

thks for the graph .....try just to lower the thresolh and not to increse the input (as you gonn have compression + saturation)
Old 18th September 2012
  #424
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@ Jeezo

Really, there's no need for explaining yourself.
Old 18th September 2012
  #425
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
by the way anybody at 96 K ?
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #426
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl ➡️
@ Jeezo

Really, there's no need for explaining yourself.
lol i alwayz recheck my written stuff and give people credit unless i found nothing ....then reply

But yep , i have to learn to ignore some ...but it's hard when you try to do things for people and other people come and start polution around for nothing .....
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #427
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Yes I was wondering about that, but I haven't figure out how to lower the volume yet.
As I'm aware of you can't lower the input signal in the Analyser. I was talking about lowering your signal that goes into the plug-in while mixing, in your DAW.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️

The NI passive EQ shows no change in HDC at when lowering or increasing the overall gain. It does show differences when booting frequencies. Especially the high ones.
I guess that the saturation stage is placed AFTER the eq stage and it's triggered by amount of increased/decreased freqs...and by the volume of incoming signal. The gain must be placed last in the signal path so it doesn't effect the saturation set up.

Like this:

0. DAWs input gain stage
1. EQ (Boost/Cut)
vvvvvvvvvvv
2. Saturation

3. Gain (overall gain knob)
#. OUT
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #428
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
But yep , i have to learn to ignore some ...but it's hard when you try to do things for people and other people come and start polution around for nothing .....

People recognize your effort and work so don't bother with the minority who don't.
Old 18th September 2012
  #429
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl ➡️
People recognize your effort and work so don't bother with the minority who don't.
Everybodys doing good work on here.It is good to know the strengths and weaknesses of your weapons.Too bad you don't have the hardware and UAD to compare THD of the plugins also.


Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012
  #430
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitewounds ➡️
Anyone interested in a Nebula MP / NI shootout?
I would like to hear it!

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012
  #431
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
lol i alwayz recheck my written stuff and give people credit unless i found nothing ....then reply

But yep , i have to learn to ignore some ...but it's hard when you try to do things for people and other people come and start polution around for nothing .....
I'm ignoring the guy that don't like comparisons.don't know why he's still reading.

Be he can not chime in or read anymore.

I'd love to hear nebula stuff,I never heard it before....

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #432
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
Too bad you don't have the hardware

Hehe...yes, that IS too bad
Old 18th September 2012
  #433
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl ➡️
Hehe...yes, that IS too bad
Although listening is important,those THD graphs and analyzer graphs help confirm what you think you are or are not hearing.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #434
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dotl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
Although listening is important,those THD graphs and analyzer graphs help confirm what you think you are or are not hearing.
Absolutely! Listening is conditio sine qua non and there's no need in mentioning it but if would help me if I can see something , touch or smell it...why not? This works for pure engineering as for creative work in its narrower sense.
We all know how design of an out-board and touching its knobs can change our decisions in mixing and how smell of an old analog synth can influence you in making a melody. That's why the test plots and GUIs are equally important to me. First for understanding and learning, second for easier implementation of the first.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #435
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
Although listening is important,those THD graphs and analyzer graphs help confirm what you think you are or are not hearing.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #436
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl ➡️
Absolutely! Listening is conditio sine qua non and there's no need in mentioning it but if would help me if I can see something , touch or smell it...why not? This works for pure engineering as for creative work in it's narrower sense.
We all know how design of the out-board and touching its knobs can change our decisions in mixing and how smell of an old analog synth can influence you in making a melody. That's why the test plots and GUI are equally important to me. First for understanding and learning, second for the easier implementation of the first.
Old 18th September 2012
  #437
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
May i ask NI to provide solo for L/R mode also ....as a request ?!!!

that would be great ...
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #438
Tui
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
It seems to me the Passive EQ, like all digital EQs I ever tried, is good for some situations, but not so good for others.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #439
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui ➡️
It seems to me the Passive EQ, like all digital EQs I ever tried, is good for some situations, but not so good for others.
Excactly ....and it's the same for analog eq ....some are great and shine on some stuff and fail in others .....

The only Eq that is really hard to take in default is the Air EQ ...specially the next one !
Old 18th September 2012
  #440
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PitchSlap's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Can somebody interpret this?

It's the Vari-mu pushed to the max. If I turn the input down the harmonic distortion decreases . The lowest I can get it to is -43dB.

....

Just turning up the input knob from it's minimum value to it's maximum the THD goes from -35dB to -17dB on comp mode. Does this explain why when I slam the input I feel my mouth curve into a smile?
Thanks very much for analyzing the plugins! Its nice to see confirmed what my ears were telling me, i.e. that the Passive EQ isnt just the exact same digital EQ algorithm with nice sounding modeled curves. If it was I'm sure it would sound great still, but its the modeled distortion that brings it to another level.

Also when reading a lot about the hardware Vari-Mu many people talk about a magic "Mu Spot" that can be reached by increasing the input knob (independent of the original signal level). This analysis seems to indicate Softube at least attempted to model this behavior.
Old 18th September 2012
  #441
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krheatman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
Excactly ....and it's the same for analog eq ....some are great and shine on some stuff and fail in others .....

The only Eq that is really hard to take in default is the Air EQ ...specially the next one !
To me the only place hardware eq's fail is cost per instance

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #442
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman ➡️
To me the only place hardware eq's fail is cost per instance

Sent from my PC36100
Also true ... and maintenance also , power consumtion , energetique bill ect ....
Old 18th September 2012
  #443
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jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
That's why the only eq I'd use that's not built into a preamp is an eq on the 2bus...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 18th September 2012
  #444
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i ve seen alot of time pro's mentioning the GML EQ ...anybody have or tried it ?
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #445
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➡️
i ve seen alot of time pro's mentioning the GML EQ ...anybody have or tried it ?
I wish somebody would model this one natively.
Old 18th September 2012
  #446
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap ➡️
Thanks very much for analyzing the plugins! Its nice to see confirmed what my ears were telling me, i.e. that the Passive EQ isnt just the exact same digital EQ algorithm with nice sounding modeled curves. If it was I'm sure it would sound great still, but its the modeled distortion that brings it to another level.

Also when reading a lot about the hardware Vari-Mu many people talk about a magic "Mu Spot" that can be reached by increasing the input knob (independent of the original signal level). This analysis seems to indicate Softube at least attempted to model this behavior.
Really!good info!

I really love most of the feed back from most of you guys!

Sorry but 'why test or show graphs',is a waste of time and trollish...

So cheers to those guys

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012
  #447
Gear Addict
 
Trailmix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY ➡️
Really!good info!

I really love most of the feed back from most of you guys!

Sorry but 'why test or show graphs',is a waste of time and trollish...

So cheers to those guys

Sent from my PC36100
Exactly. 8-)
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #448
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap ➡️
Also when reading a lot about the hardware Vari-Mu many people talk about a magic "Mu Spot" that can be reached by increasing the input knob (independent of the original signal level). This analysis seems to indicate Softube at least attempted to model this behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY ➡️
Really!good info!

I really love most of the feed back from most of you guys!

Sorry but 'why test or show graphs',is a waste of time and trollish..
Yes I mean, NI are selling us some new plug-ins and it's just useful to know exactly what they do. I mean, now I know if I use too many Passive Eq's and something doesn't sound right it could be that there is just too much distortion overall. This happens with my AA CL compressors, I don't like to use them on the mix-bus because it just becomes too dirty (I made dance music so someone making a different genre may like it)

I will use the ehance EQ for example so I can keep a clean signal and only add distortion where I want it.

What is interesting to me about the Vari-mu is that the HD is not really overwhelming, but it is definitely there and sounds nice. At first I was boosting and thought wow this sounds good, I bet it's just because I am boosting the volume though, but I was so sure that was not the only reason, something beyond gain reduction was going on, the sound was getting bigger, more intense. Now it is clear to me why that was happening.

Again the HD is different here from my AA, those are quite vintage sounding perhaps, this one is very good for modern, clean type music that needs some hype.

Still undecided about the Passive Eq, def gonna get this comp though.
Old 18th September 2012
  #449
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav ➡️
Yes I mean, NI are selling us some new plug-ins and it's just useful to know exactly what they do. I mean, now I know if I use too many Passive Eq's and something doesn't sound right it could be that there is just too much distortion overall. This happens with my AA CL compressors, I don't like to use them on the mix-bus because it just becomes too dirty (I made dance music so someone making a different genre may like it)

I will use the ehance EQ for example so I can keep a clean signal and only add distortion where I want it.

What is interesting to me about the Vari-mu is that the HD is not really overwhelming, but it is definitely there and sounds nice. At first I was boosting and thought wow this sounds good, I bet it's just because I am boosting the volume though, but I was so sure that was not the only reason, something beyond gain reduction was going on, the sound was getting bigger, more intense. Now it is clear to me why that was happening.

Again the HD is different here from my AA, those are quite vintage sounding perhaps, this one is very good for modern, clean type music that needs some hype.

Still undecided about the Passive Eq, def gonna get this comp though.
I ran into that same problem with a mix.

I imported the stems,then I tracked the vocals.when started mixing,it was very noisy after I inserted Vcc on every channel.

But the stems were basicly mixed,even though I still made some adjustments to them.I simply had to remove Vcc,because of what it added to already processed tracks.

Good point!

Sent from my PC36100
Old 18th September 2012
  #450
Lives for gear
 
Aiyn Zahav's Avatar
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
It's also good to get things straight about what soft-tube did or did not do, example people saying these are just sub-par without any distortion modelling.

I do wonder why the Ehance Eq shows no HD though, was the HW designed to be clean?

Edit, this is interesting, on the Manley website:

"These Manley Pultec units employ our own simple and clean all-tube make-up gain block to reamplify the signal after the passive EQ circuit."

"<0.01% THD @ 1Khz"

But if you read the description of the MP you don't get the impresion that it is super clean, they use words like beef & huge which if true sound like they are describing HD

"THD & Noise (1KHz @ +4 dBu): 0.06%"

So a little noisier and more THD, but it doesn't look like its as much as the plug-in, or am I reading it wrong?

I'd like to figure out how to to a THD measure using a lower input level.

If anything I am wondering just why there is so much THD on these plug-ins. It might have something to do with the input level.
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