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Arturia unveils FX Collection 2
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #421
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by melodic dreamer ➡️
Why do you assume that none of us have been around hardware? Also why do you assume we would think a plug-in would revival a 3-5 thousand dollar piece of equipment?

Having something modeled after something isn’t a bad thing. I could also just as likely assume that you do not know how to get the most out of a plug-in, but the difference here is I wouldn’t do that.
I can just see most of you live in the plugin bubble by checking how many plugins you own. I don't want to keep up with the endless hardware vs. plugin discussion here. We all know see it's useless.

What I was trying to say was, please try some of these hardware units, and not put ALL your money on plugins. You can easily end up spending thousands (I know I have) to only end up with a same comp, different graphic interface. I see some of you own 200 to 800 plugins and not a single piece of hardware. Some hardware compressors are just different beasts in real life, so if you have spent 1000 dollars a year on plugins, why not try a hardware unit for a change. You can always sell it later if you don't like it!

I like plugins like reverbs, multiband, something like soothe, synths and instrument libraries, 808 machines. There's nothing like those in hardware format. Software is very useful. But so is hardware and some of them WILL change your life.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #422
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
I can just see most of you live in the plugin bubble by checking how many plugins you own. I don't want to keep up with the endless hardware vs. plugin discussion here. We all know see it's useless.

What I was trying to say was, please try some of these hardware units, and not put ALL your money on plugins. You can easily end up spending thousands (I know I have) to only end up with a same comp, different graphic interface. I see some of you own 200 to 800 plugins and not a single piece of hardware. Some hardware compressors are just different beasts in real life, so if you have spent 1000 dollars a year on plugins, why not try a hardware unit for a change. You can always sell it later if you don't like it!

I like plugins like reverbs, multiband, something like soothe, synths and instrument libraries, 808 machines. There's nothing like those in hardware format. Software is very useful. But so is hardware and some of them WILL change your life.
Completely get what your saying. I have a few hardware units.
A couple DBX 560’s, a couple Distressors, Kt2A and Kt76. Would love to have more, but I use hardware for tracking. I like using plugins for mixing because it makes recall so easy. When Kids buy watermelon flavored gum they are not expecting it to be an actual watermelon, but something with that flavor type. I see plugins as the same way.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #423
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by melodic dreamer ➡️
Completely get what your saying. I have a few hardware units.
A couple DBX 560’s, a couple Distressors, Kt2A and Kt76. Would love to have more, but I use hardware for tracking. I like using plugins for mixing because it makes recall so easy. When Kids buy watermelon flavored gum they are not expecting it to be an actual watermelon, but something with that flavor type. I see plugins as the same way.
Actually the flavor is what I'm missing most of the times when putting on a plugin compressor. As a tool to of controlling peaks plugin comps are good in a way, but as a flavor, they rarely do it for me.

Like the Arturia Neve for example. I tested it against my 543 RND and I just started laughing when I heard the difference.

If I use an 1176, it's always on with extreme settings, and that's where the hardware is unbeatable. Exact same thing with HW distressor vs. plugin. My HW is gain reduction always pretty much maxed out in parallel drum buss, like -18db and the difference in punch is ridiculous.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
I can just see most of you live in the plugin bubble by checking how many plugins you own. I don't want to keep up with the endless hardware vs. plugin discussion here. We all know see it's useless.

What I was trying to say was, please try some of these hardware units, and not put ALL your money on plugins. You can easily end up spending thousands (I know I have) to only end up with a same comp, different graphic interface. I see some of you own 200 to 800 plugins and not a single piece of hardware. Some hardware compressors are just different beasts in real life, so if you have spent 1000 dollars a year on plugins, why not try a hardware unit for a change. You can always sell it later if you don't like it!

I like plugins like reverbs, multiband, something like soothe, synths and instrument libraries, 808 machines. There's nothing like those in hardware format. Software is very useful. But so is hardware and some of them WILL change your life.
There was no useless hardware vs plugin discussion before you started it though. If you hang around in threads about software effects, you will read about software effects and people who are interested in them. There are many interesting topics here about hardware, for you to participate.
Your opinion has been noted for what it is: Another opinion among many. No need to keep insulting people by referring to plugin bubbles. Keep doing what you like and we the rest of us can keep following our choices. You have to grasp the fact that someone can think differently than you and still be right.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #425
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon ➡️
I think the new 33609 is the best one yet in plugin form.
Looks like it was made by pulsar audio (as was Asturias 1176)
In my opinion, Pulsar are doing the best analog modelling out there.
Their MU plugin is incredible.

I have to admit, I don't like bus force all that much. I like the saturation, but not the compression so much. That said, it takes a bit of getting used to. I would have just preferred another classic compressor.

But other than that, I think arturias FX are some of the best out there.
Anything made by pulsar seems to be good.
Same here. Loving the 33609, not impressed by Bus Force. Although I have to admit I was never interested in complete mastering/bus solutions. For each project I prefer to combine completely different elements and start from scratch. So maybe that tool is not for me anyway. But the Arturia compressors in general feel very good for me. Every model found its place in my arsenal. From heavy metal to jazz and chamber orchestra, I could get beautiful results with them. Another classic compressor would broaden the range. Or maybe some more pre's and eq's like 1081, portico 5033 etc. Also their delays are fantastic. I'm currently working on a project with a real re-201and I tried Arturia's version next to it and I could get the mojo I was looking for. Really glad to have a stereo programmable version with extra features and controllable noise. And the memory man is also sweet.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #426
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusionaire ➡️
Same here. Loving the 33609, not impressed by Bus Force. Although I have to admit I was never interested in complete mastering/bus solutions. For each project I prefer to combine completely different elements and start from scratch. So maybe that tool is not for me anyway. But the Arturia compressors in general feel very good for me. Every model found its place in my arsenal. From heavy metal to jazz and chamber orchestra, I could get beautiful results with them. Another classic compressor would broaden the range. Or maybe some more pre's and eq's like 1081, portico 5033 etc. Also their delays are fantastic. I'm currently working on a project with a real re-201and I tried Arturia's version next to it and I could get the mojo I was looking for. Really glad to have a stereo programmable version with extra features and controllable noise. And the memory man is also sweet.


Completely agree. A 1081 would be great, would love a full api pre/eq also.
Would love an API 2500. For bus saturation, would have WAY preferred something like the Culture Vulture!!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #427
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon ➡️
Completely agree. A 1081 would be great, would love a full api pre/eq also.
Would love an API 2500. For bus saturation, would have WAY preferred something like the Culture Vulture!!
Ah yes! I forgot to mention API. I have Lindell's version and like it, but I would be interested in Arturia's view. I think I prefer their 1073 to Lindell's. And their Trident is amazing. Also I'm glad they did the 33609 instead of the 2254 which has been done successfully before. They'd probably make a good 2500.
And Culture Vulture would be a dream come true! Come to think of it, I recently participated in a questionnaire by Arturia and they were looking for suggestions for new plugins and features. I suggested some things but there were also some options already there by Arturia. Among them I found 2500, SSL bus comp and Culture Vulture (90% sure about the last one).
I suggested optional global oversampling like Lindell's. Where you can track in zero latency for monitoring and then engage oversampling globally for all instances to control aliasing during mix down.
It's exciting to know they are researching and developing new stuff. Emulations are getting better and having such variety can really provide affordable tools for all tastes.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #428
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusionaire ➡️
Your opinion has been noted for what it is: Another opinion among many. No need to keep insulting people by referring to plugin bubbles. Keep doing what you like and we the rest of us can keep following our choices. You have to grasp the fact that someone can think differently than you and still be right.
If you would know me at all, I was not trying to insult anyone by saying they live in a plugin bubble. I was only trying to say that I see people spending thousands on ONLY plugins (looking at their studio lists) and not owning a single hardware unit. It's just scary to me and they have all their card in one place. There are some mixing engineers that have gone mostly ITB these days, but at the same time they have come up with their own line of plugins, not a coincidence!! Then you inspect a little and find out they still have 6 different outboard compressors what they use on their master buss, just like Michael Brauer. The marketing of plugins is just as twisted than every other products nowadays. And yeah, not every hardware unit is great, but that's why this forum is for. That said don't expect Bus Force or 33609 to be great either, just because they get the hype now.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #429
Lives for gear
 
musicman691's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
If you would know me at all, I was not trying to insult anyone by saying they live in a plugin bubble. I was only trying to say that I see people spending thousands on ONLY plugins (looking at their studio lists) and not owning a single hardware unit. It's just scary to me and they have all their card in one place. There are some mixing engineers that have gone mostly ITB these days, but at the same time they have come up with their own line of plugins, not a coincidence!! Then you inspect a little and find out they still have 6 different outboard compressors what they use on their master buss, just like Michael Brauer. The marketing of plugins is just as twisted than every other products nowadays. And yeah, not every hardware unit is great, but that's why this forum is for. That said don't expect Bus Force or 33609 to be great either, just because they get the hype now.
You are ignoring a couple of things in this discussion one of which is people can't afford good outboard equipment. There are a lot of small producers/recordists and they don't get the big projects like the big guys do. For that matter even the big time people aren't getting the work they used to. Covid has only made the situation worse. Why buy cheap outboard that will only degrade your sound?

Second thing you're ignoring is these smaller producers don't have the room for outboard equipment. Proper installation of outboard takes up a goodly amount of space.

Just because there might not be any outboard stuff like eq's and compressors and such in a person's studio doesn't make them a bad person or say they're not doing great work. Similarly because a studio owner has outboard doesn't make them a good person or that they do good work. I don't care whether a person has a couple of Purple Audio 1176's or the excellent emulation that Plugin Alliance sells; what I care about is do they do good work that customers want and will pay for.

This 'you must have hardware' elitist malarkey is just that. Oh I've got a lovely bunch of outboard gear and that makes me a good producer. Complete bs.

What about hybrid that melds ITB and outboard? That can be a great combo IF you have really excellent converters and can live with the latency and noise and no recall of settings. I'm not talking about consoles with their automation and memory but eq's & comps etc. ITB wipes the floor with all that. These days it's about efficiency, speed & keeping costs down and ITB has that in spades.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #430
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I think different strokes for different folks. Also, much depends on the type of music you like to make. A lot of the EDM/Chill artists work almost exclusively on a laptop with plugins and they do some really amazing stuff with it. I think its good to pick a tool and learn it well. A lot of the time you wind up buying more and more stuff and never learning to use it. just my 2 cents.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #431
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've got a lot of plugins. I've got much more than I truly need.
I even did an account of how much I bought since I began using a computer for music, and for how many money.

So I know for a fact that if I could sell ALL the plugins (and DAWs) I bought in my life (for the exact same price I bought them), I couldn't even buy an hardware Manley Massive Passive EQ (it costs more than 6000€).
I couldn't buy a SPL Iron (5300€) OR a Chandler Limited Zener (5500€), OR a Manely Vari-Mu (5800€)
I could eventually buy 2 pieces of hardware with some added money : a Black Box HG2 (3500€) AND a Distressor (2000€). But nothing more (not even a DAW to record and process digital files).

Among other exemples, I bought the HG-2 BlackBox plugin for 40€.
The Zener is in TrackComp among many other compressors, and I paid 69€ for it...

So maybe the hardware is better (this is even sure regarding the HG-2).
But the difference seems to be objectively minimal in blind tests (depending on the plugins of course), and anyway the price difference is from 1 to 100...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #432
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusionaire ➡️
Ah yes! I forgot to mention API. I have Lindell's version and like it, but I would be interested in Arturia's view. I think I prefer their 1073 to Lindell's. And their Trident is amazing. Also I'm glad they did the 33609 instead of the 2254 which has been done successfully before. They'd probably make a good 2500.
And Culture Vulture would be a dream come true! Come to think of it, I recently participated in a questionnaire by Arturia and they were looking for suggestions for new plugins and features. I suggested some things but there were also some options already there by Arturia. Among them I found 2500, SSL bus comp and Culture Vulture (90% sure about the last one).
I suggested optional global oversampling like Lindell's. Where you can track in zero latency for monitoring and then engage oversampling globally for all instances to control aliasing during mix down.
It's exciting to know they are researching and developing new stuff. Emulations are getting better and having such variety can really provide affordable tools for all tastes.

Ah yes! Thank you for this! I have had a back and forth with an Arturia rep about the need for OPTIONAL oversampling. I need no latency performance sometimes. I also don't think oversampling is the magic bullet that some do.
This is also why I use IK T racks suite so much - it oversamples ONCE for the entire plugin chain. Stacking up multiple rounds of oversampling per track destroys my transients and low end!
I digress.....

Those options would all be great - SSL Bus, 2500 and culture vulture.
I stand by the fact that a 176 modelled by Pulsar audio would be THE ****!! I really do rate those guys, they might even be my fave.

I also completely agree on the 1073. I didn't really give the pres enough of a shot at first, but having come back to them and given them a fair chance, they are actually incredible. The saturation on the 1073 is beautiful and it sounds more alive than any of my other 1073 emus. I would probably rate it at no.1 for native algo emus of the 1073.

I really hope Arturia expands this line. When I got my M1 machine I cleared out a huge load of my synths and plugins (had so so many) and I have been much happier and more productive since.
If I could just rely on a couple of brands for most of what I do I would be happy.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #433
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
I think different strokes for different folks. Also, much depends on the type of music you like to make. A lot of the EDM/Chill artists work almost exclusively on a laptop with plugins and they do some really amazing stuff with it. I think its good to pick a tool and learn it well. A lot of the time you wind up buying more and more stuff and never learning to use it. just my 2 cents.
Yep, truly knowing how to use the stuff you have will always have way more impact than any specific piece of gear.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan ➡️
I've got a lot of plugins. I've got much more than I truly need.
I even did an account of how much I bought since I began using a computer for music, and for how many money.

So I know for a fact that if I could sell ALL the plugins (and DAWs) I bought in my life (for the exact same price I bought them), I couldn't even buy an hardware Manley Massive Passive EQ (it costs more than 6000€).
I couldn't buy a SPL Iron (5300€) OR a Chandler Limited Zener (5500€), OR a Manely Vari-Mu (5800€)
I could eventually buy 2 pieces of hardware with some added money : a Black Box HG2 (3500€) AND a Distressor (2000€). But nothing more (not even a DAW to record and process digital files).

Among other exemples, I bought the HG-2 BlackBox plugin for 40€.
The Zener is in TrackComp among many other compressors, and I paid 69€ for it...

So maybe the hardware is better (this is even sure regarding the HG-2).
But the difference seems to be objectively minimal in blind tests (depending on the plugins of course), and anyway the price difference is from 1 to 100...
This. I've invested a bit over 50.000€ for my studio, including mics, preamps, interfaces, DAWs, instruments & backline. Not including the actual structure and treatment which was another 5000€. Over that, I paid another 3000€ more or less, for plugins. To have the same variety of tools in hardware, I would have spent the 50.000 just for some of the compressors and EQ's. So I'd have to double the investment which just couldn't happen and would make no sense. And as Musicman said, I'd have latency and no ability to recall settings. This would be unacceptable for projects which run in parallel for 6-9 months and the client asks for slight changes three times a week. It would be total madness.

Software is just a different business choice than hardware, with its pros and cons. You get cheap stuff first to get you started, you raise your standards and get better stuff later to improve your arsenal (of course expensive isn't always better). You can also sell some tools you don't use. Better tools retain a good reselling price, bad tools don't. And that goes for plugins. Same as hardware. I can sell my DTC tomorrow, or my 8000€ drumset for half the price or more. But nobody wants my Alesis 3630 or my Lindell PEX-500.

I couldn't be happier with my plugins, and Arturia's are some of my favourites.
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