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Plugin Alliance releases : Black Box HG2 M/S Version
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #241
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
This is like one of those magic-dust plugins, absolutely can't keep my hands of it!m Not that I'm addicted or anything.. The latest build 1.1 though has introduced a click when I hit Play in my DAW (Logic).

I've reported it to PA support but I thought I'd just make sure I'm not the only one suffering. Anybody else?
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #242
Lives for gear
 
boody's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Same here, click when I start playing
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #243
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah, same here. I also have a help ticket in. In my case it also clicks when I press any button or turn any knob. If I bypass the Black Box, the click goes away.

The recent update did not fix this clicking issue.
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #244
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinningBao ➡️
This is like one of those magic-dust plugins, absolutely can't keep my hands of it!m Not that I'm addicted or anything.. The latest build 1.1 though has introduced a click when I hit Play in my DAW (Logic).

I've reported it to PA support but I thought I'd just make sure I'm not the only one suffering. Anybody else?
Yeah have it here too (Windows - Reaper) also when rotating most of the dials 'wildly'. Is it so analogue we have to squirt virtual contact cleaner into the VST's potentiometers to keep it maintained
Old 31st March 2021
  #245
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
thanks for replying guys, I hope they can fix it! I'm guessing the contact cleaner for AU's is more expensive than VST; easy money!
Old 31st March 2021 | Show parent
  #246
Lives for gear
 
JblKid95's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Box Analog ➡️
That would be a question for PA but I'm sure they are working on it.
Why was tmt 10 skipped in mono?
Old 1st April 2021 | Show parent
  #247
Lives for gear
 
Loopy C's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinningBao ➡️
...I've reported it to PA support but I thought I'd just make sure I'm not the only one suffering. Anybody else?
Logic 9.1.8/OSX 10.95...same. 'Click' when starting transport, even when there is no audio/region at track start.
Old 1st April 2021
  #248
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yep the dreaded click is here too.
Just mastering one track.
With HG-2MS engaged there is a click at the start of the track when I hit play.
I couldn't work out what it was, until I bypassed HG-2MS

The only good news seems to be that the click isn't present when the track is bounced.
But it's annoying when working on the track
24/96

Logic 10.6.1
macOS 10.15.7
Old 3rd April 2021 | Show parent
  #249
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
This version sounds exactly the same as the first one. Also presets are better on the first version. I use it very subtle.
Old 8th April 2021
  #250
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
One thing I noticed about the original plug was you got a volume bump when you cranked the Density knob to 100% and did no other processing. Slightly different on the MS version

Kick Drum No FX: VU -0.8, True Peak -13.8
Kick Drum Black Box OG Density 100%: VU +1.0, True Peak -11.8
Kick Drum Black Box MS Density 100%: VU -0.4, True Peak -14.2
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #251
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
If i’m running this at 48Khz would it be recommended to be oversample? I don’t see an option, but i could use something like Metaplugin to put it in.
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #252
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkSaunders ➡️
If i’m running this at 48Khz would it be recommended to be oversample? I don’t see an option, but i could use something like Metaplugin to put it in.
I don't know about the new one, but my experience with the previous version of HG-2 is that the built-in oversampling is quite well made.

Or more precisely, it sounds almost identical to me @44kHz and oversampled X2 or X4 in Metaplugin... (I'm usually quite subtle with HG-2)
What I'm hearing (if it's not confirmation bias) is a bit more mellow/relax/deep sound, but truly it's not night and day (like with Decapitator for exemple)...
Just try it and see if you hear any difference.

Of course, if you've got the CPU power, it doesn't hurt to rack it in Metaplugin and upsample it to death...
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #253
Lives for gear
 
galaydees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan ➡️
it doesn't hurt to rack it in Metaplugin and upsample it to death...
I would push back on this advice.
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #254
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaydees ➡️
I would push back on this advice.
What do you mean ?

Actually, I never tried this (mainly because of CPU) so maybe my advice is a bit stupid... It was more like a joke, but you're right I should think more about what I'm saying...

I know it sounds a bit better (if any better at all) with X2 or X4 oversampling, but actually I never even tried to go above that.
Actually, after many tests with HG-2, I usually just keep it at the session's sample rate (i.e. 44kHz) because I don't think the improvement worths the extra CPU and Metaplugin hassle...
I oversample in Metaplugin, FIR built-in filter, with TDR Ultrasonic Filter after each device.

But any insight from you would be very welcome.
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #255
Lives for gear
 
screentan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I know it's best to try it oneself but I was interested to know if there is general consensus as to where best to place the Black Box on a mastering chain? My logic would say pre EQ most of the time.
Old 10th April 2021 | Show parent
  #256
Lives for gear
 
boody's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by screentan ➡️
I know it's best to try it oneself but I was interested to know if there is general consensus as to where best to place the Black Box on a mastering chain? My logic would say pre EQ most of the time.
Depends. An EQ can pre-shape the sound and influence the saturation that way. Sometimes when things don't work I flip them to see what happens. Sometimes it's just right.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #257
Gear Addict
 
Mastering7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind ➡️
Well, I can't get the linking to work with the Alt key (Win). Is this a known behavior with the VST3 version? Actually, it should work and is also described in the manual
It is still not working in Samplitude Prox5. (version 1.1)
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #258
Gear Maniac
 
Black Box Analog's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by screentan ➡️
I know it's best to try it oneself but I was interested to know if there is general consensus as to where best to place the Black Box on a mastering chain? My logic would say pre EQ most of the time.
I generally like to put it as early on as possible. How hard you drive it changes how it responds significantly and the more dynamics / transients you feed into it, the more you will get out of it. In fact, you can control transients in a way that is much more transparent than compression and you retain punch even with significant gains in density. By doing that early on, you not only get more out of the HG-2 but you need less compression and limiting later which usually means a better result.

Start with your signal hitting about halfway up the meter and then once you get to a good spot, adjust the density up and down while watching your compressors and/or limiters downstream. You will see that as you dial back the density, you allow more transients through and as you increase the density, you control the transients more. Of course, the more you let through, the harder your compressors and limiters downstream have to work so you can use this approach to find the optimal balance where the reduction is spread out between the different tools in a way that gives you the biggest, punchiest and most open result.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #259
Lives for gear
 
screentan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Box Analog ➡️
I generally like to put it as early on as possible. How hard you drive it changes how it responds significantly and the more dynamics / transients you feed into it, the more you will get out of it. In fact, you can control transients in a way that is much more transparent than compression and you retain punch even with significant gains in density. By doing that early on, you not only get more out of the HG-2 but you need less compression and limiting later which usually means a better result.

Start with your signal hitting about halfway up the meter and then once you get to a good spot, adjust the density up and down while watching your compressors and/or limiters downstream. You will see that as you dial back the density, you allow more transients through and as you increase the density, you control the transients more. Of course, the more you let through, the harder your compressors and limiters downstream have to work so you can use this approach to find the optimal balance where the reduction is spread out between the different tools in a way that gives you the biggest, punchiest and most open result.
Awesome information. Thank you
Old 3 weeks ago
  #260
Here for the gear
 
Anyone else experiencing random CPU spikes / audio pops with vst3 version in Live 11 / win10 1803? I spent quiet some time searching for the culprit in a lightweight project with two instances of HG-2 MS vst3 and after disabling those, the cpu spikes went away. Replaced them for now with vst2 and reached out to support.

I also read somewhere else that some users were experiencing a click sound at the beginning of playback in Cubase if I recall right - this might be related?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #261
GBP
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by justaquestion ➡️
Anyone else experiencing random CPU spikes / audio pops with vst3 version in Live 11 / win10 1803? I spent quiet some time searching for the culprit in a lightweight project with two instances of HG-2 MS vst3 and after disabling those, the cpu spikes went away. Replaced them for now with vst2 and reached out to support.

I also read somewhere else that some users were experiencing a click sound at the beginning of playback in Cubase if I recall right - this might be related?
My demo ran out and was going to update very soon but may well hold out until this “click” bug has been rectified with an update...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #262
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justaquestion ➡️
Anyone else experiencing random CPU spikes / audio pops with vst3 version in Live 11 / win10 1803? I spent quiet some time searching for the culprit in a lightweight project with two instances of HG-2 MS vst3 and after disabling those, the cpu spikes went away. Replaced them for now with vst2 and reached out to support.

I also read somewhere else that some users were experiencing a click sound at the beginning of playback in Cubase if I recall right - this might be related?
I get them in Bitwig. I reported and PA said they fixed but the issue persists.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #263
Here for the gear
 
Jeez. I will keep you posted. If anyone else can chime in on similar spike related issues It would be nice to chime in so I can link the thread to support once I receive reply.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #264
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I also get the click when starting playback with Logic and the Black Box on a channel, hopefully that's something they'll fix soon enough.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #265
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️
I also get the click when starting playback with Logic and the Black Box on a channel, hopefully that's something they'll fix soon enough.
I hope they fix it Asap too.
As it is I have to check every bounce with Blackbox in it to be certain the click hasn’t been transferred to the bounce.
Amateur hour effort by PA.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #266
Lives for gear
 
Not having any issues with the release version (I never got to updating).
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #267
Gear Addict
 
jpanderson80's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld ➡️
I hope they fix it Asap too.
As it is I have to check every bounce with Blackbox in it to be certain the click hasn’t been transferred to the bounce.
Amateur hour effort by PA.
Yeah, no joke on the headache of checking everything.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #268
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Box Analog ➡️
I generally like to put it as early on as possible. How hard you drive it changes how it responds significantly and the more dynamics / transients you feed into it, the more you will get out of it. In fact, you can control transients in a way that is much more transparent than compression and you retain punch even with significant gains in density. By doing that early on, you not only get more out of the HG-2 but you need less compression and limiting later which usually means a better result.

Start with your signal hitting about halfway up the meter and then once you get to a good spot, adjust the density up and down while watching your compressors and/or limiters downstream. You will see that as you dial back the density, you allow more transients through and as you increase the density, you control the transients more. Of course, the more you let through, the harder your compressors and limiters downstream have to work so you can use this approach to find the optimal balance where the reduction is spread out between the different tools in a way that gives you the biggest, punchiest and most open result.
Thanks for the detailed advices. I think too that the gainstaging is quite crucial to get the most out of HG-2, and I noticed that the input level can have a pretty big impact on the behavior of this little beast.

I'm the owner of the previous version, and right now I'm testing HG-2 MS, so I've got two questions regarding gain staging in it :

1- When you say "hitting (HG-2) about halfway up the meter", what does it mean in terms of input gain calibration ? Is it PPP or VU levels ?
Because I usually gainstage everything around -18dbfs RMS, and if I want to hit HG-2 like you said while watching the VU level, I need to raise my signal around -10dbfs RMS - which is a pretty loud level !!!
But maybe your recommendation is about the PPM level of the source - then it fits much better with what I'm used to (depending on the source of course).
It could be great if you could gave us some insight about that

2- I noticed that the input gain knob (on the top toolbar) doesn't seem to be placed before the input level meter : when I raise or lower the input gain, I don't see any change in the input level meter, but in the output meter. It's a bit strange, because I guess the purpose of this input knob is to find the level sweet spot with which one hit the plugin. But you loose the ability to check it in the meters if the knob is after the input meter.

Thanks by advance for your answers...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #269
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
By the way, anyone knows a way in Hg-2 MS to collapse the GUI like in this video ?
https://youtu.be/IZAPqdBmjbg?t=808

At this moment in the video, there is no L/R (or M/S) channels, but only one channel visible. I think it makes complete sense when both channels are linked : it takes much less space...

Is it a special beta version or is there a way to do this in the existing plugin ?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #270
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan ➡️
Is it a special beta version or is there a way to do this in the existing plugin ?
Open it on a mono channel.
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