Solid State Logic unveils the UF8 Advanced Studio DAW Controller - Page 3 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Solid State Logic unveils the UF8 Advanced Studio DAW Controller
Old 4th February 2021
  #61
Gear Addict
 
SSL can do better.

It's 2021.

A nucleus on steroids would be great.

I don't care if it costs more but what do you really get in this that doesn't already exist?

Something to compete with AVID's flagship controllers maybe in a compact format.

Hell Icon's controllers seem to have thought things through more in terms of dedicated knobs to assign to EQ's , modularity etc.

Looked at the sweetwater review sure you can work with it but I want more knobs for faster workflow.

There is a lot of competition in this space; have to agree with the Slutz who thinks this is a prosumer money grab.

Old 4th February 2021
  #62
Gear Addict
 
rectape's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ordered one. In fact there is not much competition. You have the cheap ones like Behringer and the expensive ones like Avid (Protools Only).
I'm working mainly with Studio One and never considered the Presonus controller because of the lack of encoders. If I don't like it I'll send it back.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
Aw man, that sucks. I thought there would be a way to have the UF8 tell itself, "make V-Pot #6 impersonate V-Pot #22 " or something, and use the app and the unit's memory to configure, store, and recall those Show / Hide lists.
Believe me, I'm with you on this, being someone who's been doing a lot of development in this area (for reasons of: all controllers suck and don't do what I want them to do, in terms of plugin control).

Logic sends "this is what you display on screen", and the controller sends Vpot1-8 values, and Logic modifies the correct plugin parameter. The controller itself has no concept of what parameters it's editing. If you want Vpot1 to control a parameter that's 32 in the list, you have to page Logic until Logic presents that parameter as one of the 8 in the current page. There's only ever 8 vpots per MCU device*. There is no concept of a "Vpot 22" to send instead.

(* regular MCU device. A C4 has 32.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
The problem lies more with the plug-in developers, who create too-comprehensive lists of parameters that are reported to the control surface, but often don't arrange their order in the list in a sensible way.
Yes, very few of them consider control surface parameters, they just bung all the automatable parameters in whatever order they want - which is sometimes sensible, sometimes random.

Fun fact, take a look at GForce's impOSCar - the parameters are nicely formatted and mapped to be sensible over those pages, and they specifically ordered and spaced the paramaters for that reason. Very few other developers care, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
That's why we see things like the entire mod matrix spilling across a dozen pages, or filter cutoff on page 3 while filter envelopes are on page 9 or whatever. Who's going to edit mod matrix assignments from a V-Pot? Nobody, that's who.
Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
I guess I'll just have to grit my teeth and dive into the CSParameterOrder files. Ooof.
It's actually easy and fairly quick, especially if you have a text editor where you can just move lines up and down. And once you start doing a few, you'll love the results!

I do it for all my instruments, as it's those I most want a consistent layout. For smaller things like a reverb or delay, I usually leave the parameters to fall as they do (unless it's non-sensical) and I have 32 vpots to play with. For things like channel strips I generally order them like the plugin, but keep a consistent layout so the EQs, comps, gates etc all come up in the same place.
Old 4th February 2021
  #64
Gear Head
 
I was looking for a replacement for my artist mix and this sadly falls short in a lot of places for me. I’m a protools guy and this unfortunately can’t compete with the S1.... guess that’s my path.

You can say what you want about avid (lord knows there is a lot to be said) but when they do good they do really good (s1).
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich ➡️
If you ran a business, you'd realize for such a setup you'd have to release THREE products rather than one (L, C, R) where 90% of people would just buy the 8ch version and you'll end up with an stock of the LEFT and CENTER, which means valuable resources destined to unprofitable products.
If you'd release just a 24ch version, very few would be able to afford it and many people would ask for the 8ch, etc, only 10% of customers would buy the 24ch, while some other would ask for a 32ch version, others for a 16ch, etc.

Any Project Manager knows this stuff.

On the other hand, some those redundant buttons can be assigned to other functions, etc.
That’s why you make it as just the faders in the middle section and the sides clip on so you would have one fader section to produce and a left / right end piece and people just put them together to the length they require
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG602 ➡️
I was looking for a replacement for my artist mix and this sadly falls short in a lot of places for me. I’m a protools guy and this unfortunately can’t compete with the S1.... guess that’s my path.

You can say what you want about avid (lord knows there is a lot to be said) but when they do good they do really good (s1).
Artist mix has been out forever.

I agree.

The S1 should be what manufacturers should be aiming to match.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
IF THIS THING HAD NATIVE *REAPER MODE* I WOULD DANCE WITH JOY

Not HUI or some CSI thing that needs to be configured but if it were actually tested and certified to work out of the box with Reaper
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
confirmed: Reaper is not an option in the layer select preferences

Once again... Reaper ignored
Old 4th February 2021
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Nowak's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Looks terrific, well done SSL.

However, the people... "WE WANT A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"

Also the same people... "WE WON'T PAY FOR A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"

Being part of the SmartAV team a while back, they made the incredible Tango.. sadly it went into oblivion because of this, Avid will never open up Eucon which is a shame, but they have a closed, tight, integrated system that works great and a range of products to suit. I think in large format world, there is nothing but the S6, S4.

If you're in Pro Tools world, I think the little S1 is pretty great.

If SSL are smart, they'll release a dedicated panel for their plug ins next.

However this does look nice, congrats SSL.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowak ➡️
However, the people... "WE WANT A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"
Also the same people... "WE WON'T PAY FOR A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"
For context - it's a modern Mackie Control Universal, with nicer components & design.

It costs basically the same price as the original MCU did, and the same as what I paid for mine nearly 15 years ago (£1K).

So while it's not an inconsiderable amount of money, I've never considered my MCU a poor investment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowak ➡️
If SSL are smart, they'll release a dedicated panel for their plug ins next.
If they do, it will look, and work, like the C4, because it's the only way using the MCU protocol that you can get more than 8 parameters in the controller. I'm not sure this is quite SSL's bag though. Mixing, yes - plugin control...

Maybe a custom SSL channel-strip style dedicated, labelled controller that isn't based on the MCU protocol might be an idea, but it's a limited market as it would only let you control your channelstrips meaningfully...
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #71
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avantmidi ➡️
Very Happy with my custom Nucleus 1! That looks more premium than this more consumer like unit..
This new 8 channel is good for some. cascaded it looks silly with all those double features per unit
I agree with you Avantmidi. But it makes perfect sense to SSL. Remember X-Panda? no more expansion that makes sense, just buy two main units.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowak ➡️
Looks terrific, well done SSL.

However, the people... "WE WANT A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"

Also the same people... "WE WON'T PAY FOR A HIGH QUALITY CONTROLLER"
I would happily pay for a high quality controller that had native Reaper mode
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
charlieclouser's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️
It's actually easy and fairly quick, especially if you have a text editor where you can just move lines up and down. And once you start doing a few, you'll love the results!
Well, with about 1,200 AU plugins on my system I shudder at the thought... Some are used all the time, so that's worth doing, but then you start digging into the weird-o plugins, find something you like, and... what, fire up the text editor and start repairing the CSParameterOrder file? By the time I save and relaunch Logic I'd have forgotten what the hell I was doing.

This is why I don't have any control surfaces in use at the moment. I've been through them all, from a huge ProControl rig ($$$) to Emagic Logic Controls, to 3x MCU with a C4, to Euphonix Artist Mix, etc. The silver MCU + C4 was the best of them, but kind of too big and clunky, and those displays were awful. I almost went for Nucleus but it's just a sleeker MCU really. UF8 looks promising, but still basically a sleeker, smaller MCU, and I don't like the idea of having 3 of them just to be able to spill 24 parameters. I wish there was an SSL equivalent of the C4 in the works....

Nowadays I just trackball and Logic Remote my way to moderate levels of happiness.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh ➡️
I would happily pay for a high quality controller that had native Reaper mode
Do the Reaper devs just not want to implement support for MCU?

Do they have controller support at all? (I'm not that familiar with Reaper)
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
Well, with about 1,200 AU plugins on my system I shudder at the thought...
Indeed. I only care about the first 32 parameter positions for the most part, but if you were planning on remapping *all* parameters, I would say that's unrealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
Some are used all the time, so that's worth doing,
Yes, I start with my most necessary plugins, and over time, bit by bit work outwards. While you can do it in the middle of your workflow, it probably doesn't make sense to do that for the most part. Take half an hour a week to map another ten or so plugins, and bit by bit, you get through them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
This is why I don't have any control surfaces in use at the moment. I've been through them all, from a huge ProControl rig ($$$) to Emagic Logic Controls, to 3x MCU with a C4, to Euphonix Artist Mix, etc.
Yer, I don't think anyone's really useful solved this problem yet - at least for plugin control. Mixing is a bit easier. I just wish some dev would make nice controllers with a synth front panel, and a variety of other ones, EQ, compressor, channel strip, reverb/delay etc, and really solve this issues to make these thing useful regardless of what individual plugins you use. The market's wide open for this, but few people seem to be tackling it, or are being successful. It's not a trivial problem, but it's not an insolvable one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
The silver MCU + C4 was the best of them, but kind of too big and clunky, and those displays were awful. I almost went for Nucleus but it's just a sleeker MCU really. UF8 looks promising, but still basically a sleeker, smaller MCU, and I don't like the idea of having 3 of them just to be able to spill 24 parameters. I wish there was an SSL equivalent of the C4 in the works....
My plugin setup is based on a modified C4 setup, and it's the best setup I've ever had as I can consistently and reliably pull up the instrument plugins, switch to plugin mode, switch between insert slots to control whatever plugin I want, and add in whatever handling I need - it's great, and sadly, no controllers do this out of the box.

The Logic forums are full of people buying generic controllers and confused as to how to get them to control their plugins, and going down some manual mapping rathole. Ugh. It shouldn't be that hard to use your controller to control plugins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
Nowadays I just trackball and Logic Remote my way to moderate levels of happiness.
I think this is what happens - most people wonder why it's so hard and just revert to the mouse.

Personally, putting synths back on physical controls makes those plugins come alive for me, and same for things like channel strips. Hardware control is great when it's hassle free, you don't have to think about it, and it just works how you like... It's never as good as a dedicated hardware control surface specifically for one bit of gear, but it's at least workable and useful across a range of plugins you typically use...
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich ➡️
Looks like a really good controller, the "mouse scroll emulation" is a great feature to have.


The Main *problem* with any controller on the market to be really powerful, is the lack of a proper PROTOCOL to allow full customization between DAWs and the controller itself.
All there is, is the old Mackie's MCU. For every other protocol is in the hands of AVID (mostly euphonix control) which acts as a monopoly and doesn't allow anyone to implement aything.
Imagine this same scenario in the early 80s. They would never have been any MIDI.

Back to the UF8. Price is very good as well, as it appears to be half a Nucleus, with further extensions and better displays, without the i/o capabilities which pretty much everyone has already sorted out. It's a win
This.
The Mackie protocol needs to be tossed aside and way made free for new comm protocols.
It's 2021 and I still can read only 8 characters on any display like my SL mk3 for plugin parameters.
This SSL is therefore just as bad as the old MCU.
It's stupid and I resent it
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️
As far as we know, this controller is using the MCU protocol. Unfortunately, a controller can't easily do what you want, based on the MCU protocol.

As I think you know already, the proper way to handle this on a plugin-by-plugin basis is to use Logic's CSParameterOrder files to re-order the parameters you want. I do this to bring up a consistent layout of synth parameters for all my synth plugins (eg osc controls in the top row of 8, filter controls in the second row, amp/filter envelope on the fourth row etc). I generally use 32 controls for plugins. You can reorder and hide parameters at will in these files, and Logic will respect this and make the parameters available to the control surface accordingly.

However, this can't be done dynamically. You can't get a controller just to "ignore" a few parameters and shuffle the next ones down - it just doesn't work like that. MCU controllers are quite dumb - they just send MIDI commands to Logic, and receive display, metering and button status updates. Logic maintains the state, and Logic presents the plugin parameters available for editing. While it would be *technically possible* to parse the display updates and hide certain parameters dynamically (ie pretend they are not there), you can't easily "shuffle" the parameters down, or make Vpot6 control a parameter that would be controlled by a parameter which is currently in the next page of 8 parameters - the control surface does not get a list of all the parameters, it just gets a display of the current 8, that's it.

Now, while there is a way to improve a bit on that behaviour (I don't want to get too technical, because I am implementing some of these things in my own intelligent solutions using the MCU protocol), so it can be fudged a bit in two specific ways, neither of which are optimal - it's still not really practical to do this how you want to do it (dynamically, on the controller), due to the limitations and design of the MCU protocol.

At least editing the CSParameterOrder is quick with a decent text editor, and only needs to be done once for any plugin you want to change the order, and from that point it's a set and forget thing.



You can basically implement this on any MCU device already, given appropriate buttons to use. Just use one of the User modes, and you can map the controls to anything you want, or transform the incoming MIDI from the controls using other means.

Edit: Just been watching the video. It is basically a physically modern MCU, and works in more or less the same identical way to the original - plus the layer modes (essentially virtual controllers working on different ports).
Can this also be done in Cubase? Re-order plugin parameters?
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️
Fun fact, take a look at GForce's impOSCar - the parameters are nicely formatted and mapped to be sensible over those pages, and they specifically ordered and spaced the paramaters for that reason. Very few other developers care, though.
.
And they all should care!
Proper formatting and shortening (think the 8 chars!) and ordering should be standard so the maximum readibility of parameters is possible for us users.
In order to cope with our hardware controllers.
Else, what is the point??
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician ➡️
The Mackie protocol needs to be tossed aside and way made free for new comm protocols.
It's 2021 and I still can read only 8 characters on any display like my SL mk3 for plugin parameters.
This SSL is therefore just as bad as the old MCU.
It's stupid and I resent it
The MCU protocol has held up amazingly well considering it's late-90s vintage.

There's some other modes to get wider text displays on the MCU, BTW.

But yes, MCU has become a bit like MIDI now - ubiquitous and works well enough that it's easier for other devs to implement it and get decent controller support, than to custom design their own controller system from scratch (which will likely be proprietry and require their own hardware controller).

What would need to happen is that other the main software devs got together to design a new, more modern open standard (unlikely), or some enterprising third-party developer or team to design a new, modern open standard and hope that they can do a good enough job, and get some traction that the DAW devs will implement it.

Given that we can't even get a generic synth-layout plugin controller on the market, this seems unlikely... and here we are - with SSL deciding the easiest thing to do is just re-implement the MCU, rather than do something bold, but way more risky...
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progmatic-Studios ➡️
Can this also be done in Cubase? Re-order plugin parameters?
I've no idea - I'm a Logic guy...
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️
Do the Reaper devs just not want to implement support for MCU?

Do they have controller support at all? (I'm not that familiar with Reaper)
There is plenty of support for the MCU in Reaper.
So it's implemented by Cockos. And there is always DrivenbyMoss.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #82
Gear Addict
 
rectape's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser ➡️
Well, with about 1,200 AU plugins on my system I shudder at the thought... Some are used all the time, so that's worth doing, but then you start digging into the weird-o plugins, find something you like, and... what, fire up the text editor and start repairing the CSParameterOrder file? By the time I save and relaunch Logic I'd have forgotten what the hell I was doing.

This is why I don't have any control surfaces in use at the moment. I've been through them all, from a huge ProControl rig ($$$) to Emagic Logic Controls, to 3x MCU with a C4, to Euphonix Artist Mix, etc. The silver MCU + C4 was the best of them, but kind of too big and clunky, and those displays were awful. I almost went for Nucleus but it's just a sleeker MCU really. UF8 looks promising, but still basically a sleeker, smaller MCU, and I don't like the idea of having 3 of them just to be able to spill 24 parameters. I wish there was an SSL equivalent of the C4 in the works....

Nowadays I just trackball and Logic Remote my way to moderate levels of happiness.
I hope they'll come with a C4 thing too. Tired of waiting for something like this
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mu:zines ➡️





I think this is what happens - most people wonder why it's so hard and just revert to the mouse.

Personally, putting synths back on physical controls makes those plugins come alive for me, and same for things like channel strips. Hardware control is great when it's hassle free, you don't have to think about it, and it just works how you like... It's never as good as a dedicated hardware control surface specifically for one bit of gear, but it's at least workable and useful across a range of plugins you typically use...
Yes I agree. But it IS still a hassle.
Perfect example: plugin TR909 by Roland.
My hardware controller displays them parameters... Only showing the 8 first characters means I see a page full of 'Bassdrum...' but I don't know what the rest is.so I wiggle a knob and see it's the bass drum tuning....
What is the point of a hardware controller if I STILL need to look on the computer screen to see what I am doing??
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician ➡️
There is plenty of support for the MCU in Reaper.
So it's implemented by Cockos. And there is always DrivenbyMoss.
Well then it should be possible surely to set the SSL up in Reaper just as an MCU, and it should work, then, if the MCU works...
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician ➡️
My hardware controller displays them parameters... Only showing the 8 first characters means I see a page full of 'Bassdrum...' but I don't know what the rest is.so I wiggle a knob and see it's the bass drum tuning....

What is the point of a hardware controller if I STILL need to look on the computer screen to see what I am doing??
Generic, unlabelled controllers are always a pain for this, as there are no labels to show you what you are doing. Small, inbuilt screens or more modern UI type displays would give dynamic labels, which would help, but again, there are very few controllers tackling these problems. (I've been moaning about this for years, even decades now... *sigh*)

The way I deal with it, per plugin, is to say, in the case of the 909, how do I want this to be controlled? Say I make the top row of knobs do voice tuning for each drum, the second row to be decay, the third levels etc. So I only need to do that figuring out *once* (by parameter name, via a text file), move the parameters into the order I need, then forget about it - as I know that whenever I call up the 909 plugin, the parameters will be in my preferred arrangement - the top left knob is always kick tuning, and so on.

While it's also possible to have label reminders on screens of some description, I find that for commonly used plugins at least, you get the muscle memory because a) you're using those plugins a lot and b) you've arranged the parameters in the way that makes the most sense to you, rather than some arbitrary arrangement from some third-party developer.

Eg for any synth I pull up, the filter cutoff, resonance, and filter env amount are always in the same place. Same with the envelope controls, and so on. Which means I no longer have to think about it, I can just immediately tweak. And it's great.
Old 4th February 2021
  #86
Rea
Lives for gear
 
Rea's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anything new here? if so i missed it. Looks like an exciting release from 1993.
Should at least have direct connect to Sigma to make sense as a new product.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The only reason I would replace my ICON QCon Pro G2 controller for the new SSL controller is the small screens, probably better quality faders and the design. Other than that, it remains a "normal" HUI controller.
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
YES - MIDI CC mode, like the Faderport, but programmable!
Old 4th February 2021
  #89
Gear Maniac
 
I'm watching the Logic video and this looks way better than any other controller available for Logic. It looks like i can go down my plugin list on a given channel and the scribble scripts will automatically tell me which parameters the pots will control with zero setup.

Is this just for the SSL Plug and the native Logic plugs they demo'd or will this work with UAD, PA, etc etc
Old 4th February 2021 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravesNumber9 ➡️
I'm watching the Logic video and this looks way better than any other controller available for Logic. It looks like i can go down my plugin list on a given channel and the scribble scripts will automatically tell me which parameters the pots will control with zero setup.

Is this just for the SSL Plug and the native Logic plugs they demo'd or will this work with UAD, PA, etc etc
As far as I know this is a standaard MCU feature. I can do the same with my Icon controller

Last edited by Progmatic-Studios; 4th February 2021 at 11:37 PM..
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 23 views: 5699
Avatar for Mitch Manger
Mitch Manger 11th September 2006
replies: 1889 views: 347741
Avatar for Analogue Mastering
Analogue Mastering 14th March 2021
replies: 66 views: 14033
Avatar for Crown Loops
Crown Loops 31st July 2014
replies: 1 views: 336
Avatar for drockfresh
drockfresh 3 hours ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump