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New Lavry Engineering Gold AD Savitr
Old 22nd January 2021
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Chris Chapelle's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hardware New Lavry Engineering Gold AD Savitr

http://www.lavryengineering.com/prod...PlJkqBIyf62XwU
Old 22nd January 2021
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Sui_City's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DL does not **** around.
This’ll be quite something.
Old 23rd January 2021
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Looks sweet! I’ve got one on order! I can’t wait til it gets here... :-)
Old 23rd January 2021
  #4
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I guess Mr. Lavry changed his mind about 60 kHz being the ideal sample rate and 192 kHz being inaccurate...
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 ➡️
I guess Mr. Lavry changed his mind about 60 kHz being the ideal sample rate and 192 kHz being inaccurate...
Probably just pressure to offer the capability... if a client wants a 192k file and a Lavry can’t do it...
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #6
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Loomis ➡️
Probably just pressure to offer the capability... if a client wants a 192k file and a Lavry can’t do it...
Makes sense to me!
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #7
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Switchcraft's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nice, my Lavry gold just broke on the day this came out. It must bd a plot. Where did you put one on order? Their dealer locator on their page is not working.
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft ➡️
Nice, my Lavry gold just broke on the day this came out. It must bd a plot. Where did you put one on order? Their dealer locator on their page is not working.
I ordered the older model a couple weeks ago from Vintage King. They told me it was going to be delayed a little while. Now I know why. I’ve since talked to my guy there to make sure I’ve got this one on order...
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Switchcraft's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks, Todd. I sent you a DM.
Old 23rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchcraft ➡️
Thanks, Todd. I sent you a DM.
I didn’t get a message? Maybe try sending again...
Old 24th January 2021
  #11
Here for the gear
 
ADC Sigma Delta or ADC SAR ?
Old 25th January 2021
  #12
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
how much is this one?
Old 25th January 2021
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Waiting for his updated white paper too.
Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #14
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polybonk's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkshadows75 ➡️
ADC Sigma Delta or ADC SAR ?
This?
Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #15
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doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkshadows75 ➡️
ADC Sigma Delta or ADC SAR ?
I've never heard of SAR before. Pretty interesting stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succes...roximation_ADC


Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
"Successive approximation" is used in some old digital effects units like my Yamaha SPX90 for analog-to-digital conversion but I've never heard of any recent use in professional audio.

Mostly because it's too slow and has inferior bit resolution (16-bit max even for the highest end SAR ICs). They are mostly used for data acquisition from sensors etc.
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #17
Here for the gear
 
ADC SAR maybe perfect for sampling vintage box speed delay and tonal color ?

Lavry AD "adc SAR i think here"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK4MLHwBO8I
Old 4th March 2021
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Switchcraft's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Has anyone else got one yet? Mine arrives Monday. Gonna shoot it out against my MK3.
Old 8th March 2021
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My Savitr arrived yesterday, and I spent all weekend testing it. It's sounds absolutely amazing... especially in combination with my Quintessence. I like to do loopback testing by ear, and playback through the loop is SO incredibly close to the original I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind A/B... The sound is super detailed and clear. No punchiness is lost, no weird shifting of the sound occurs... no detectable deviation from the original frequency response at least according to my ears. These converters are hands down the best converters I've ever heard.

In addition to that, the Savitr offers a variety of options - multiple digital outs at different sample rates, 3 different soft sat algorithms, or sat off. MX mode, or off... low latency mode, etc. It calibrates itself automatically, and it appears to do so within .01 db as best I can tell.

This thing was expensive, but if you want the Ferrari of converters, this thing is right up at the very top. It's spectacular... I don't know what else to say. It has exceeded my expectations, and then some...

-Todd
Old 11th March 2021
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
valeot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
is it only my impression or does the Soft Sat sounds way better than on the MX?
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Head
 
Cool.

Have you tried the Korg MR-2000s?
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valeot ➡️
is it only my impression or does the Soft Sat sounds way better than on the MX?
I haven't heard earlier versions of the Lavry Gold stuff, so I haven't compared older soft sat with the new. I know the old ones had +6, +3, or off, whereas the Savitr is +6, +4, +2 or off. Maybe +6 is the same... I don't know. You could probably call Lavry and just ask them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rearslum ➡️
Cool.
Have you tried the Korg MR-2000s?
I have a Korg MR-1000 I haven't used in many years. I decided to try to record some loopback stuff through it just now. For a good mastering loopback, I need to test it playing back using it's own D/A, and then looping back into it's own A/D. I can't seem to figure out how to make it do this - as it seems it can only playback, or record, but not both at once? I suppose I could send audio through the inputs, but I'd have to use a 3rd party D/A to do that, which would be an inaccurate test. If you have a MR-2000S, can it playback and record it's own playback with a loop? If not, it wouldn't really work for a mastering loop...

I suppose I could test the A/D -> D/A in comparison when I get a chance... but that doesn't help much for mastering purposes though, unless a client captures their mix using a Korg recorder and I then play back from my Korg recorder. I've offered that I have the Korg, but nobody has ever sent me a mix they recorded through a Korg to make this useful.

-Todd

Last edited by Todd Loomis; 13th March 2021 at 08:53 PM..
Old 14th March 2021 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rearslum ➡️
Cool.

Have you tried the Korg MR-2000s?
I just did a comparison. I guess the results I've discovered will only help sell the Lavry Gold further as it's really amazing (and the results could even help sell the Korg as well actually).

Korg MR-1000 vs Lavry Gold converters (I don't have the Korg MR-2000s):

This is a pain of a test because of the limitations of the Korg (being unable to playback/record simultaneously). Also, this test is far less accurate than simple loopback tests because it requires 3rd party converters (Apogee AD-16X and DA-16X in this case). In a better version of this test, all converters would be recalibrated exactly the same... I'm not gonna go that far, but I went ahead and did some loops using a standard Apogee DA-16X to AD-16X as the loop reference. What I listen for is "deviation" from the original reference.

Chain 1 (REFERENCE):
Apogee DA-16X analog out --> Apogee AD-16X analog in

Chain 2:
Apogee DA-16X analog out --> Korg MR-1000 line inputs (recorded DSD quality) --> Korg MR-1000 line outputs (played back at DSD quality) --> Apogee AD-16X analog in

Chain 3:
Apogee DA-16X analog out --> Korg MR-1000 line inputs (recorded PCM 44.1khz, 24-bit quality) --> Korg MR-1000 line outputs (played back PCM 44.1khz, 24-bit) --> Apogee AD-16X analog in

Chain 4:
Apogee DA-16X analog out --> Lavry Savitr analog in, AES out --> Lavry Quintessence AES in, analog out --> Apogee AD-16X analog in

Chain 5:
Apogee DA-16X analog out --> Apogee AD-16X analog input --> Apogee DA-16X analog output --> Apogee AD-16X analog in

RESULTS:

First, I'll say ALL of these converters are VERY VERY good. Differences are extremely subtle, and on a low quality monitoring system, you may not even be able to tell the difference. My system is pretty good though. I'm currently monitoring on B&W 800d speakers, which are bi-amped. Each speaker is powered by two Classe CAM-600 monoblock amplifiers. My room has been built and treated for audio, and additionally, it was tuned by Bob Hodas. My current D/A is the Cranesong Avocet, although I have been experimenting with monitoring through the Lavry Quintessence.

MY OPINION:

Chain 2 is extremely close to the original. Maybe there is a TINY bit less low-midrange punch/presence. The variation is so subtle though, I would feel comfortable saying it's almost irrelevant.

Chain 3 is very close to the original. There is a TINY bit less overall midrange punch/presence. It's more noticeable than chain 2 above, but it's still VERY subtle.

Chain 4 is extremely close to the original. Maybe there is a TINY bit more low-midrange presence. The variation is so subtle though, I would feel comfortable saying it's almost irrelevant.

Chain 5 deviates a little from chain 1. The midrange is more apparent in energy, and there is a VERY slight loss of midrange detail. So the midrange RMS energy is there, but transients are very slightly less apparent. There is a very slight shift in the sound overall. These variations are extremely subtle as the converters are still excellent, but variations are very slightly noticeable.

The Korg MR-1000 sounds amazing when recording/playing back DSD quality audio. It's right up there with the quality of the Lavry Gold PCM. If working strictly in PCM, I slightly prefer the Lavry. As far as PCM converters go, I haven't heard everything on earth by any means, but the Lavry Gold series stuff is the best that I have heard. That little Korg isn't super far behind though!! And in DSD mode, it might be as good, though it is slightly different sounding.

Obviously the Lavry converters bring a lot more to the table for mastering than the Korg. They have different I/O options, etc., the Quintessence has analog level control, Savitr has enhancement capabilities like soft sat and MX... and most importantly, I can use the Lavry converters in a standard D/A --> A/D mastering loop. Anyway, both products are excellent. For mastering work, I would still choose the Lavry Gold stuff first... but if Korg had a stand-alone A/D/D/A converter set that could record/play simultaneously (maybe the MR-2000s can do this? I don't know), you could use it confidently to provide you with a less expensive mastering loop setup... or just use it for amazing quality recording/playback in DSD mode. It would work well for mix capture and playback into an analog mastering chain (I have used the MR-1000 this way in the past before - it's really good).

-Todd

Last edited by Todd Loomis; 14th March 2021 at 03:23 AM..
Old 14th March 2021 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Head
 
No I don't have it sorry, have just read about it there:

Quote:
Korg MR2000sbk DSD at 5.6Mhz is the hands down winner for final 2 track capture of any analog summing chain IME, and I have tried many contenders searching for the holy grail.

It left the Burl B2 for dead, my Lavry Blue (at 24/96) for dead, smoked Lavry Gold, Mytek, Prism and others. We tried just about every top-of-the-line PCM A/D out there and it was a clear no contest. the only thing that may be better in some cases is 1/2" tape; but it is too colored for most projects IME.

I have brought my MR2000 to mastering houses and it is implemented just like a 1/2" tape machine reel -- analog out into the analog mastering chain then captured to PCM. I print every mix from my Trident Series 80 console simultaneously to the MR2000 at 5.6Mhz and Lavry Blue A/D at 24/96. The PCM capture post analog mastering chain is clearly superior to the Lavry PCM capture post mastering chain; in every case at the mastering house the Korg has smoked the Lavry and outperforms it in every way -- tight and powerful low end, lush and rich mid range, velvety smooth hi end, depth and wideness of soundstage, transient punch, overall clarity & smoothness, and has a similar euphonic bliss feeling that 1/2" tape has but without the coloration.

Hard to explain, but you just have to hear it !!!
Favorite ADC after analog summing?
Old 14th March 2021
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Looks like the Korg dsd recorders are discontinued? On both Sweetwater, and vintage king it shows the product as no longer available... it’s a shame as it’s a great sounding product...

I will say, it doesn’t “smoke the Lavry Gold” as the quote just above says. That’s ridiculous... as if all productions that have used Lavry Gold are somehow inferior. Give me a break... The differences between these converters are extremely subtle, and as I described above, the Korg is a little bit thinner in the low mid range area, whereas the Lavry has a little more energy there. Both converter sets are AMAZING...

Obviously most final mastering capture is to PCM, so the benefits of DSD are lost in this case... although the PCM capture is really really good for both Korg and Lavry (and many other converters as well). DSD capture of a mix and DSD playback into the mastering chain works great on the Korg.

It’s funny to me when people talk about how something completely smokes something else as if all recorded music prior to now is somehow garbage... Same thing with loud mastering - people talk like loud masters ruin music, and yet nearly every pop song we have enjoyed the last 30 years is loud. Opinions lost to extremity. Here’s the sobering reality - you can make a pro quality product with either converter set, and yes, the Korg is cheaper. In a mastering environment, I choose the combination of equipment - including converters, that I think will help me best do the work... Who knows though... after reading this thread, maybe all of the professional mastering houses out there will abandon their Lavry converters in favor of Korg... wait, how long has the Korg been out? Did they all abandon their Lavry converters? That doesn’t seem to have happened... I wonder why... are they all fools? Or could it be something else?

Last edited by Todd Loomis; 25th March 2021 at 01:00 AM..
Old 14th March 2021 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
 
Aivaras's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Loomis ➡️
I will say, it doesn’t “smoke the Lavry Gold” as the quote just above says.
I had a chance to compare Korg MR1000 to Lavry Blue years ago. While both units sounded fine, I preferred the sound of the Lavry Blue, so did my colleagues who listened to the same audio files.
Old 24th March 2021
  #27
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey folks! I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts whose done some A/Bing with the Savitr vs the previous Lavry Gold 122AD 96 MX. The claimed reduced latency is what's really grabbed my attention on the Savitr; how much faster is it?

Also curious if anyone can tell me if they'd recommend upgrading from the MX to the Savitr. If it was a cheaper unit I'm sure there would be no question, but how much does the upgrade really move the needle?
Old 24th March 2021
  #28
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🎧 15 years
I was comparing it to my Lavry Gold MK3 and it is night and day different. The low end is so precise and the stereo imaging feels so exacting and immersive. The Soft sat sounds completely different on the Savitr. I used to avoid the +6 on the MK3, but the +6 on the savitr sounds so natural. It sounds like they changed the gain shape on it to my ear. Also, the operation of the unit is very streamlined.
Over all, it is a major upgrade to the MK3 and was worth it for me. It is an immaculate sounding unit -- I don't think it can get much better than this.

I love being able to bypass the MX processing. it seems like the MX processing balloons the low end in a nice way and van be very useful, but its also great to be able to remove it. You can also push the unit extremely hard and it sounds clean. I can sometimes get away without using a limiter with it.
Old 24th March 2021 | Show parent
  #29
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks, that was really insightful. Much appreciated!
Old 28th March 2021
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
Todd Loomis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Another thing, I’ve read in past forum threads where people have complained about latency being too high to use for tracking... With Savitr, that’s a non-issue in my opinion - even without low latency mode... especially if you use the main output rather than the aux output. The max latency for the main output even at 44khz (higher sample rates have even lower latency) is only 471 MICROseconds... that’s about half a millisecond... totally undetectable to the human ear/brain. Now that’s for the main output. If you use the aux output there is a little more latency, but the max latency at 44k for the aux output is still only 3.7ms.

Anyway, these are the high-quality mode ratings. In low latency mode, it’s even less... so if you want to track through this converter, track away without fear. The latency is almost irrelevant - even in high quality mode... especially when using the main output.

Todd
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