Voxengo TEOTE automatic spectral balancer plugin released - Page 27 - Gearspace.com
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Voxengo TEOTE automatic spectral balancer plugin released
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #781
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxengo Aleksey ➡️
Is the fact modern sound production has -4.5dB/oct spectral slope, with +/- 4 dB spread across that line a psycho-acoustical fact?
I don't thin anybody can claim something as "fact" that is entirely subjective. The overall tonality of "great" records has changed tons over the decades. Thus it would be pure folly by anybody to claim something as subjective as that as a fact.

This is why I think it would be extremely beneficial to have personal control over the target curve. If you ever consider making a TEOTE version 2, perhaps add a "target curve" editor that TEOTE then goes for? Would be very useful for single instruments too where you might want a very strange and limited target curve.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #782
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind ➡️
Good question, then it would have taken them many (14?) years to figure out what others already knew Maybe it's just part of the marketing strategy to advertise something simple as something very special and complex
I suppose one could run pink noise into gullfoss to see how it reacts...heck. Maybe I'll do this at some point today.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #783
Voxengo
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
I don't thin anybody can claim something as "fact" that is entirely subjective. The overall tonality of "great" records has changed tons over the decades.
"Linearity" did not change too much, it's still +/- 4 dB from what I've measured. What did change is slope: from -6 dB/oct in 1980 to -4.5 in 2010. Well, I would claim it's a fact. It's not too hard to pick several top tracks from Billboard charts from several years, and measure. The basis of selection is sales, of course, and it can be argued. But there's no better basis exists that it's not under "expert bias". As some engineers say, "if it sounds good it is good", and probably sells better in the end.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #784
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🎧 10 years
I wonder how many Songs today will still be played 30 years from now ?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #785
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxengo Aleksey ➡️
No, that wasn't in the plans. I've discussed new possible dynamic responses in another thread.
Oh please no it takes long enough already to determine the best one while mastering

But as stated in my previous post; I wish the "spectral profile" was a knob instead of selection so we could get in-between profile characters...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #786
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4damind's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Is there some kind of multiband compression involved, so Teote has several (up to 64) compression bands?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #787
GBP
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
Here is my current default starting point for TEOTE. Note that I do usually end up tweaking this quite a bit but it's where I always start from.

EDIT: The ZIP file contains a .cpf file called TEOTE_bM Default.cpf. It's the native Voxengo preset file format. Simply load the file through TEOTE's "LOAD" button in the preset tab.
Thanks for this bmanic, I have set as my default starting point too, although have turned off the 8x OS for my lesser system....

I need to study this plugin further to understand its complexities...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #788
Voxengo
 
Voxengo Aleksey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind ➡️
Is there some kind of multiband compression involved, so Teote has several (up to 64) compression bands?
Well, as initialy stated TEOTE does use dynamics processing. But it's simultaneously compression and expansion, depending on the required gain adjustment. I would not compare it to usual barebone compression/expansion as timing constants in TEOTE are extremely small. TEOTE has completely different dynamics to most, even multiband, compressors. It won't work like a usual compressor where you can cause extreme pumping, or squashing the dynamic range. Mainly because gain adjustments are relative to momentary loudness.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #789
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4damind's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This may have already been asked, can you compare the parameters Recover and Tame at Gullfoss with Teote? Recover has a similar effect as the Boost Threshold?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #790
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind ➡️
...
Boost T is to Bias in gullfoss (might be the exact same thing). Recover and tame in gullfoss is to spectral profile in Teote.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #791
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker ➡️
Boost T is to Bias in gullfoss (might be the exact same thing). Recover and tame in gullfoss is to spectral profile in Teote.
No. This is not at all correct.

You need to investigate Gullfoss a lot more to figure it out. Bias works completely differently to TEOTE's threshold and the bias control in gullfoss has two different opposite functions for the recover and tame modes.

Start by exploring what recover sounds like with bias set to 100. Then do the same with bias set to -100. Now do that for tame. You'll quickly notice that the interaction is very different (and quite "opposite" when listening to how transients vs sustained parts of the sound are handled).

The underlying spectral profile in Gullfoss can not be changed as far as I know other than by the brightness control which kind of "tilts" it.


In short: I don't think TEOTE and Gullfoss work the same way at all. They work and sound quite different to one another.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #792
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4damind's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
No. This is not at all correct.

You need to investigate Gullfoss a lot more to figure it out. Bias works completely differently to TEOTE's threshold and the bias control in gullfoss has two different opposite functions for the recover and tame modes.

Start by exploring what recover sounds like with bias set to 100. Then do the same with bias set to -100. Now do that for tame. You'll quickly notice that the interaction is very different (and quite "opposite" when listening to how transients vs sustained parts of the sound are handled).

The underlying spectral profile in Gullfoss can not be changed as far as I know other than by the brightness control which kind of "tilts" it.


In short: I don't think TEOTE and Gullfoss work the same way at all. They work and sound quite different to one another.
Thanks Niklas, seems to be really much more different.
The Gullfoss developers also say that they do not use an internal reference. According to them, the plugin analyzes the incoming signal and determines how to maximize the amount of information reaching your brain.

I still have the demo of Gullfoss running and honestly I'm not sure yet if I prefer Gulfoss or Teote. Teote is cheaper, has more options and doesn't require iLok. Gullfoss makes me some problems with the iLok, is a lot more expensive and less flexible. The results are similar for me, but maybe that's because my mixes are already quite balanced. With Teote (100 Mix, Boost 0) I have only 1-3dB level difference, so the spectral balance seems to be quite similar.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #793
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
No. This is not at all correct.

You need to investigate Gullfoss a lot more to figure it out. Bias works completely differently to TEOTE's threshold and the bias control in gullfoss has two different opposite functions for the recover and tame modes.

Start by exploring what recover sounds like with bias set to 100. Then do the same with bias set to -100. Now do that for tame. You'll quickly notice that the interaction is very different (and quite "opposite" when listening to how transients vs sustained parts of the sound are handled).

The underlying spectral profile in Gullfoss can not be changed as far as I know other than by the brightness control which kind of "tilts" it.


In short: I don't think TEOTE and Gullfoss work the same way at all. They work and sound quite different to one another.
Make a high-cut to like 2khz on gullfoss, boost recover or tame, look at the red area while changing bias...this is why they kind of look similar to me but I agree its kind of like sympathizing a similarity of apples and oranges.

And yeah to be honest Gullfoss to my mentality is closer to an enhance/exciter than a balancer.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker ➡️
And yeah to be honest Gullfoss to my mentality is closer to an enhance/exciter than a balancer.
It certainly doesn't produce harmonics I think?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #795
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 ➡️
It certainly doesn't produce harmonics I think?
No but just like what happens with exciters, many over-use and screw-up their mixes :D

Despite the controls seem a bit overwhelming on first demoing, Teote is waaaay safer in that regard.

Last edited by cooker; 2 weeks ago at 04:30 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #796
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🎧 10 years
How is TEOTE compared to DSEQ?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #797
plx
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock ➡️
How is TEOTE compared to DSEQ?
different. DSEQ is more like Soothe.
Old 2 days ago
  #798
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I like TEOTE for mid and low range. But, I am also getting pumping, but with a ukulele track. Sounds like someone is subtly turning up and down the volume a couple of times a second. I've tried lots of different settings, including different base attack and release times, energetic, fluid, etc. I find the ukulele particularly tricky when it comes to dynamic processing, such as compression.
Old 2 days ago
  #799
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Try to keep between 30-40%
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #800
Voxengo
 
Voxengo Aleksey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambaji ➡️
I like TEOTE for mid and low range. But, I am also getting pumping, but with a ukulele track. Sounds like someone is subtly turning up and down the volume a couple of times a second. I've tried lots of different settings, including different base attack and release times, energetic, fluid, etc. I find the ukulele particularly tricky when it comes to dynamic processing, such as compression.
I suggest you to try adjusting Slope in a wider range as well, it's possible that on this specific instrument the algorithm may have a better "characteristic" at a different slope. If that does not work, let me know, I'll study "ukulele" case more closely.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxengo Aleksey ➡️
I suggest you to try adjusting Slope in a wider range as well, it's possible that on this specific instrument the algorithm may have a better "characteristic" at a different slope. If that does not work, let me know, I'll study "ukulele" case more closely.
I'll play around some more with the Slope and the Effect amount. The pumping occurs on the master bus when mixed with drums and bass, not so much on the individual ukulele track.
Old 2 days ago
  #802
plx
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🎧 10 years
shameless plug, but can we get BANDS and FX (parallel) control to Soniformer please (sidechain would be a +)
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plx ➡️
FX (parallel) control
Watch out for phasing issues if doing this.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #804
plx
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 ➡️
Watch out for phasing issues if doing this.
Teote doesn’t have them tho?
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plx ➡️
Teote doesn’t have them tho?
I don't understand now. I thought you were asking for parallel mixing for TEOTE. Just saying that phasing issues would be an issue with this if it was implemented.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #806
plx
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 ➡️
I don't understand now. I thought you were asking for parallel mixing for TEOTE. Just saying that phasing issues would be an issue with this if it was implemented.
Oh no, FX and Bands control from Teote implemented to Soniformer.
Iirc fx is “parallel processing”, or maybe i remembered incorrectly
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plx ➡️
Oh no, FX and Bands control from Teote implemented to Soniformer.
Iirc fx is “parallel processing”, or maybe i remembered incorrectly
Not sure sorry I though the higher the FX knob the stronger the processing but if parallel processing with these things have to be using really good filters and crossovers. I know the DynOne 3 plugin uses parallel MB Comp and is rated highly so it is possible. Just have to be careful.

How's your DS1-MK3?
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #808
Voxengo
 
Voxengo Aleksey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 ➡️
Not sure sorry I though the higher the FX knob the stronger the processing but if parallel processing with these things have to be using really good filters and crossovers. I know the DynOne 3 plugin uses parallel MB Comp and is rated highly so it is possible. Just have to be careful.

How's your DS1-MK3?
FX in TEOTE IS a dry/wet mix, so it is a "parallel" processing.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #809
Voxengo
 
Voxengo Aleksey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plx ➡️
shameless plug, but can we get BANDS and FX (parallel) control to Soniformer please (sidechain would be a +)
This is in the plans for some future update.
Old 1 day ago
  #810
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4damind's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So far I have achieved very good results with Teote. The last 1-2% can be improved without much tweaking but the mix should already be reasonably balanced. I also tested Gullfoss for a while, but the results were not different or better.
Knowing Voxengo since the beginning, I know that the plugins are usually good and sometimes a bit ahead of the others

Something that could be interesting is user spectra. Similar to Paul Frindle's DSM (which is unfortunately very buggy and unusable on some systems).
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