Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More - Page 182 - Gearspace.com
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Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5431
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by assessor ➡️
Regarding HRTF. This is Steven Slates answer in post #1609 :
That does not say that they tested custom HRTFs (i.e. individualized for each user) against whatever else they believe to be an adequate or superior system.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5432
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Gotcha..Thankyou mate . Another noob question pls.. which room do you people prefer for producing music. Archon mid is the fan favourite here too?
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5433
Here for the gear
 
Being a fan of Stevens incredible work in the technology, manufacturing
products/software and reading this thread for like a week I decided to pick these up (picked up a pair of the founders edition on reverb.com - since these are nearly impossible to find online).

I'm a little frustrated and having the opposite effect of other people as things take 3x as long to get in the pocket compared to my treated room/monitors. Though they sound "good" checking reference material these are so difficult to mix on.

I have access to some of the nicest custom rooms you can find here in Austin (private studios) So for example a friend of mine has a place where I can go test my stuff out on some TADs and custom horns with a heavily modified tube amp (can't remember the name sorry). Comparably I find those super easy to work with. I make the moves and get a mix done for commercial release. My buddy's setup is on point and he builds/repairs speakers for a living. For example his last job he did he was hired out by a rich retired old oil guy and got paid well into six figures for the 8 month job. He also introduced me to Ambisonics over 10 years ago, so we're familiar with the technology.

Also another thing I've found is when engaging the plugin in Ableton it drops the master volume down to -18 to -20 dbfs when my master peaks normally with about to around -4 dbfs. This requires me to turn the output to +12 and the Ableton master channel to +3 and the headphone amp all the way to get something workable.

Is this normal operating volume for the plugin? If this is normal why such a huge drop in volume when you are required to add a gain plugin after boosting the main output knob?

In fact, I can't even use these headphones with any of my portable devices either and just sound "okay" but again extremely low volume. Even with the device turned up to 100% there is still not enough volume. I'm having to download an app to add +12 db of gain to get them comfortably listenable.

Don't have this issue with any of my other cans.

I know these take time to get "used" to, but even me stepping into unfamiliar territory as far as mix studios go all it takes me a little time with some reference material and I'm good to go.


This isn't a bash Slate post, and know he's here and takes his work very seriously. The Slate support staff is probably some of the best in the biz, and his attention to customer service and quality is a long missed business habit that seems forgotten (his response to the manufacturing issue with them cracking was class).

With respect, I'll give these more time.

One thing I do have to say these are probably the most comfortable pair of headphones I've owned and the design seems solid.

Any advice on the massive volume difference when engaging the plugin and the massive volume drop when using these on pretty much every device I own?

I'm a little put off by the fact that folks are recommending an amp for something that should be a complete package. Know good cans can start at around $800-$2500 for a set, but would have been nice to know I have to pony up another $300 for an amp for working volume and won't be able to use these on portable devices.
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #5434
Lives for gear
 
TS-12's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Did v 2.0 come out yet ?

And will it come with system wide standalone host or app ?
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5435
Here for the gear
 
edit - I was saying how disappointed with these that you can't preview samples in Ableton's browser through the room and stumbled across the "how to listen to VSX without a DAW".

But the gain issue still stands, sorry you shouldn't have to crank the main buss into the red to have a listenable level.

Also tried with a custom made headphone amp from a friend of a friends home brew collection (he sells one offs of these hand made ones that will set you back $700) and still they are really quiet.

Maybe mine are broken, but seeing how the plugin exhibits such a bizarre volume I'm not sure what to think. Wasn't expecting to have a weeks worth of frustration over a $500 purchase.

It's late so I hope one of the Slate folks can chime in - I'm beyond frustrated by another wasted night in the studio without any work done "troubleshooting"
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5436
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
edit - I was saying how disappointed with these that you can't preview samples in Ableton's browser through the room and stumbled across the "how to listen to VSX without a DAW".

But the gain issue still stands, sorry you shouldn't have to crank the main buss into the red to have a listenable level.

Also tried with a custom made headphone amp from a friend of a friends home brew collection (he sells one offs of these hand made ones that will set you back $700) and still they are really quiet.

Maybe mine are broken, but seeing how the plugin exhibits such a bizarre volume I'm not sure what to think. Wasn't expecting to have a weeks worth of frustration over a $500 purchase.

It's late so I hope one of the Slate folks can chime in - I'm beyond frustrated by another wasted night in the studio without any work done "troubleshooting"
it's been discussed quite a bit why the volume dips, as I understand the emulations require more headroom (for example the club having such a high bass response.) You can also adjust the output of the plugin which i'm sure you know.

strange that they're quiet even with a headphone amp, I know it's been discussed that a low impedance amp is best. I use an apollo twin X and there's more than enough volume. It's loud enough on my macbook pro headphone output too. (i wouldn't use that as a primary reference tho.)

Otherwise, it takes time to learn the VSX rooms just like any real space Trust what you are hearing and keep at it !!! Adjust the EQ to taste too with reference tracks, it might help your ear accept the illusion. Try staying in one room primarily too.

good luck !
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5437
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oratowsky ➡️
it's been discussed quite a bit why the volume dips, as I understand the emulations require more headroom (for example the club having such a high bass response.) You can also adjust the output of the plugin which i'm sure you know.

strange that they're quiet even with a headphone amp, I know it's been discussed that a low impedance amp is best. I use an apollo twin X and there's more than enough volume. It's loud enough on my macbook pro headphone output too. (i wouldn't use that as a primary reference tho.)

Otherwise, it takes time to learn the VSX rooms just like any real space Trust what you are hearing and keep at it !!! Adjust the EQ to taste too with reference tracks, it might help your ear accept the illusion. Try staying in one room primarily too.

good luck !
oratowsky - cheers, appreciate the response mate.
I was reading how it took people a couple of months before they became usable, and thought I might be the exception to that case. One thing I've noticed is there is such a large difference between ear type 1 & 2 that neither feel right or behave that Mr. Slate described on here. Maybe I'm a 2.5?

Jury is still out and wait for 2.0 before I make any final conclusions. lol, I had an old romantic partner that had a saying "delayed gratification is the best" when they saw me frustrated over stuff like this.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5438
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use VSX plugged in to Audiojack so that my DAW and all other applications can output through VSX. In this way finder can output through VSX for auditioning samples.

My headphones are connected to the headphone output of a fairly inexpensive audio interface being an SSL2. The headphone volume rarely gets turned up above 3 or 4 out of 10 even with the drop in output with VSX engaged.

I’d say I might have turned it up to halfway on occasions but I would consider it dangerously loud for anything more than a few seconds to check the power of the kick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
edit - I was saying how disappointed with these that you can't preview samples in Ableton's browser through the room and stumbled across the "how to listen to VSX without a DAW".

But the gain issue still stands, sorry you shouldn't have to crank the main buss into the red to have a listenable level.

Also tried with a custom made headphone amp from a friend of a friends home brew collection (he sells one offs of these hand made ones that will set you back $700) and still they are really quiet.

Maybe mine are broken, but seeing how the plugin exhibits such a bizarre volume I'm not sure what to think. Wasn't expecting to have a weeks worth of frustration over a $500 purchase.

It's late so I hope one of the Slate folks can chime in - I'm beyond frustrated by another wasted night in the studio without any work done "troubleshooting"
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5439
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've got a standard Scarlett 18i20 for my composing rig and I have the headphone output on about 25% volume. Anymore and it is at dangerous levels so I'm confused as to how your listening levels are so low as these cans are really easy to drive.

On my mobile phone they would ear damage at full volume for sure.

The drop in volume is to make room for the adjustment for the room emulation/measurement to be applied to the natural eq signatur of the headphones themselves. Sonarworks and IK Ark 3 do this as well.

In sonarworks/Arc 3 I have a 12db dip in the bass area of my room, so the software has to boost in that freq by 12db. If the plugin did not drop the overall volume then it would be distorting.

To listen to pc audio (not DAW Audio) I have Loopback on the Scarlett soundcard patched into a 'PC Input' track on Cubase. This way all PC audio youtube etc goes through VSX.

To get VSX audio on your phone etc then you'll have to export through the plugin so that your phone has the audio VSX'd if that makes sense. Will only work on the VSX headphones though.... really handy for me as I have exported all my favourite albums through VSX so I can acclimatise my ears and brain to Archon Mids room.

On their own the headphones will not sound good as they need the software or audio with software export inserted to get the correct sound.

But your headphone levels seem really low, looking at my headphones level now and playing back the Art of Noise Paranoimia album which is peaking at -10db on my master out....headphones are at 10'oclock setting. Plenty loud enough.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
edit - I was saying how disappointed with these that you can't preview samples in Ableton's browser through the room and stumbled across the "how to listen to VSX without a DAW".

But the gain issue still stands, sorry you shouldn't have to crank the main buss into the red to have a listenable level.

Also tried with a custom made headphone amp from a friend of a friends home brew collection (he sells one offs of these hand made ones that will set you back $700) and still they are really quiet.

Maybe mine are broken, but seeing how the plugin exhibits such a bizarre volume I'm not sure what to think. Wasn't expecting to have a weeks worth of frustration over a $500 purchase.

It's late so I hope one of the Slate folks can chime in - I'm beyond frustrated by another wasted night in the studio without any work done "troubleshooting"
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5440
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Best bet would be to play an album you are really familiar with and adjust the HMids until it sounds to you as it should.

I'm still making these adjustments as I'm finding now that my mids are a little too loud on my mixes. Before VSXi headphones it was the opposite with terribly scooped audio in the classic smile format.

So now I am increasing the HMid eq just a bit to tame align more with how I perceive sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
oratowsky - cheers, appreciate the response mate.
I was reading how it took people a couple of months before they became usable, and thought I might be the exception to that case. One thing I've noticed is there is such a large difference between ear type 1 & 2 that neither feel right or behave that Mr. Slate described on here. Maybe I'm a 2.5?

Jury is still out and wait for 2.0 before I make any final conclusions. lol, I had an old romantic partner that had a saying "delayed gratification is the best" when they saw me frustrated over stuff like this.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5441
Gear Nut
 
DivideByZero's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
One thing I've noticed is there is such a large difference between ear type 1 & 2 that neither feel right or behave that Mr. Slate described on here. Maybe I'm a 2.5?
Echoing other replies here, but definitely don't skimp on having a solid selection reference tracks - songs you know and that you know sound great. I didn't fully "click" with VSX until after a solid day of listening and adjusting the Profile and LH settings until I arrived at the one setting where all of my references sounded right (with lots of breaks).

I ended up roughly halfway between profiles (to be exact, Profile 2 plus 7 scrollwheel-clicky-roll-things*, or +1.4dB). Both Profile 1 and Profile 2 sound moderately "off" to me when LH is set flat, and I think this is because my personal LH knob setting lands almost precisely between the two profiles. Perhaps you may also be far enough away from a "flat" Profile setting that it's sounding weird with either profile.

Everyone's ears are different, but for me: when LH is set below my setting, I start to hear less depth in the mix, as though while it's being lowered the instruments are slowly moving backwards until they're all flat against the rear wall. When LH is set too high, some bass notes don't cut through anymore and the low end starts to lose density overall as it's raised further. This is just my ears, though; everyone hears differently and everyone else might be finding their settings a different way. Or maybe my definition of "flat" is not really flat. Grain of salt, but the moral is to take time getting the Profile/LH setting dialed in if both flat profiles are sounding weird.

*Feature Request - Please add numerical values to the EQ dials so I don't have to remember settings in increments of "scrollwheel-clicky-roll-things".

Last edited by DivideByZero; 3 weeks ago at 03:56 PM.. Reason: Clarity, or at least an attempt
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #5442
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thought I would post a pic of my Adam A7x room calibration I have just done.

I have had 2 months using just VSX and my Adam A7x's were moved to the TV, but I have a friend coming over this week to play on the modular synths and whilst I talked him into getting VSX (which he loves) 2 people on headphones isn't quite the same experience as banging out loud audio...though I doubt I'll use them much for mixing if at all.

Anyhow, I re calibrated them by turning the bass on the monitors to as low as they can go but it is still not enough! I might re do the measurement process again with the volume a little lower so I can fit the room node on the graph.

But this is why I need the VSX headphones, I will never get this room sounding right. I have moved the studio into the house but the sitting room does have very thick carpet with 3 layer thick curtains and a great big settee/sofa. So it's not exactly a live room, just that the dimensions suck.

There is no way you can mix in this room even with correction... it's just not possible. Move your head 1 inch back and 3db more bass etc. Headphones stay in the sweet spot and Archon room is a lot nicer than mine
Attached Thumbnails
Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More-adam-a7x-arc.jpg  
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5443
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachesgod ➡️
Any advice on the massive volume difference when engaging the plugin and the massive volume drop when using these on pretty much every device I own?
Insert VSX on a bus then route it to the master and you won't have a volume drop in your DAW.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5444
Lives for gear
 
robshrock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi StevenSlate,

Just curious... where do you personally land with the Depth knob?

i seem to like it at around 10:00... am I missing out on anything critical by having it down this low?

Thx,
Rob
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5445
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock ➡️
Hi StevenSlate,

Just curious... where do you personally land with the Depth knob?

i seem to like it at around 10:00... am I missing out on anything critical by having it down this low?

Thx,
Rob
It adjusts the strength of the binaural effect. Around 10 or 11 is where I have it set as well.
Where you have it set will be determined by where you find the effect most natural to your ears/brain. It is a pretty subtle effect though.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5446
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Same here, 10 o'clock.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5447
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
Thought I would post a pic of my Adam A7x room calibration I have just done.

I have had 2 months using just VSX and my Adam A7x's were moved to the TV, but I have a friend coming over this week to play on the modular synths and whilst I talked him into getting VSX (which he loves) 2 people on headphones isn't quite the same experience as banging out loud audio...though I doubt I'll use them much for mixing if at all.

Anyhow, I re calibrated them by turning the bass on the monitors to as low as they can go but it is still not enough! I might re do the measurement process again with the volume a little lower so I can fit the room node on the graph.

But this is why I need the VSX headphones, I will never get this room sounding right. I have moved the studio into the house but the sitting room does have very thick carpet with 3 layer thick curtains and a great big settee/sofa. So it's not exactly a live room, just that the dimensions suck.

There is no way you can mix in this room even with correction... it's just not possible. Move your head 1 inch back and 3db more bass etc. Headphones stay in the sweet spot and Archon room is a lot nicer than mine
I think it was Ethan Winer who once said here on the forums that any room that measures +/- 6dB (12dB of total difference) between peaks and valleys is a "world class" room.

Most ordinary rooms and even many studio control rooms, especially if there is a lot of audio equipment in the room, will have some extremely severe peaks and valleys all over the place.

So yeah, looking at measured graphs in a room, especially if the filtering settings for the plot is brutal, will look extremely discouraging. Luckily the human brain + ear system is extremely good at adapting to almost any situation if there are no other options. This is why some people can make amazing mixes in absolutely horrible conditions. It's a skill like any other skill. Takes time and a lot of dedicated practice.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5448
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I hear you and I'm totally sure it's true for many people... just not me. All my releases have this silly mid dip with way too much bass and highs.

VSX has been the first time my mixes don't sound like guess work, need to adjust the HMid though a couple of db as I've gone the other way now as in just a bit too much mid range.

But dialling in the bass is so easy now, ARC and Sonarworks do their job but I still can't get stuff to translate well enough.

Looking forward to the updates and I have to say it's nice being 80/20 on the music side again rather than on the engineering polishing turds side.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
I think it was Ethan Winer who once said here on the forums that any room that measures +/- 6dB (12dB of total difference) between peaks and valleys is a "world class" room.

Most ordinary rooms and even many studio control rooms, especially if there is a lot of audio equipment in the room, will have some extremely severe peaks and valleys all over the place.

So yeah, looking at measured graphs in a room, especially if the filtering settings for the plot is brutal, will look extremely discouraging. Luckily the human brain + ear system is extremely good at adapting to almost any situation if there are no other options. This is why some people can make amazing mixes in absolutely horrible conditions. It's a skill like any other skill. Takes time and a lot of dedicated practice.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5449
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
I hear you and I'm totally sure it's true for many people... just not me. All my releases have this silly mid dip with way too much bass and highs.

VSX has been the first time my mixes don't sound like guess work, need to adjust the HMid though a couple of db as I've gone the other way now as in just a bit too much mid range.

But dialling in the bass is so easy now, ARC and Sonarworks do their job but I still can't get stuff to translate well enough.

Looking forward to the updates and I have to say it's nice being 80/20 on the music side again rather than on the engineering polishing turds side.
Well said. That's how I feel
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5450
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soapmak3r ➡️
It adjusts the strength of the binaural effect. Around 10 or 11 is where I have it set as well.
Where you have it set will be determined by where you find the effect most natural to your ears/brain. It is a pretty subtle effect though.
Doesnt do anything here
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5451
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
I hear you and I'm totally sure it's true for many people... just not me. All my releases have this silly mid dip with way too much bass and highs.

VSX has been the first time my mixes don't sound like guess work, need to adjust the HMid though a couple of db as I've gone the other way now as in just a bit too much mid range.

But dialling in the bass is so easy now, ARC and Sonarworks do their job but I still can't get stuff to translate well enough.

Looking forward to the updates and I have to say it's nice being 80/20 on the music side again rather than on the engineering polishing turds side.
I feel like you described myself and my mixes. I don't own vsx yet but I plan on buying it once they come back in stock. I need another form of reference and the vsx seems promising.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5452
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTrain ➡️
I'm curious why the Slate VSX headphones are no longer available through Sweetwater. To clarify, they are not listed as 'out of stock.'

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...deling-plug-in
I have an order confirmed with Sweetwater. Im told May. I have not been charged yet. I ordered 2 weeks ago. Assured they are coming.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5453
Lives for gear
 
The reason they are not listed any more is because the first run was the 'founders edition' and the next run isn't.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5454
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
So.. 2.0......WHEN?

The man himself wrote here beginning of february, that estimated date is in 30 days
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #5455
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I almost stop listening to 1.0 x) to hype for the Slate room haha
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5456
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Ive never listened to accurate monitoring in my lifetime.. Also my left ear has a lo cut at 4000hz. Which room felt the most accurate for you guys. For me it's archon Farfield..But it seems like an unpopular option in gearspace.. Opinions pls!
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5457
Lives for gear
 
robshrock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by akashpmp ➡️
Ive never listened to accurate monitoring in my lifetime.. Also my left ear has a lo cut at 4000hz. Which room felt the most accurate for you guys. For me it's archon Farfield..But it seems like an unpopular option in gearspace.. Opinions pls!
I like working in Archon Farfields. Go with what is comfortable for you, and your tastes will expand over time as will your expertise with the various rooms. In other words, don’t stress about it!

Last edited by robshrock; 3 weeks ago at 03:11 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5458
Here for the gear
 
I hope the phasey sound, harsh highs and exaggerated room can be fixed in future updates
I suppose this new update will inlcude only new phasey rooms and some tweaks for the profiles.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5459
Quote:
Originally Posted by akashpmp ➡️
Ive never listened to accurate monitoring in my lifetime.. Also my left ear has a lo cut at 4000hz. Which room felt the most accurate for you guys. For me it's archon Farfield..But it seems like an unpopular option in gearspace.. Opinions pls!
I think I'm with most people that the Archon mids are the closest to 'flat'. The NRG nears are are also pretty close, though with a little more high mid focus.
I also like the Archon fars, I think they're the most fun to listen to, and IMO they are more in line with how people might be listening to music - bigger bass and slightly hyped highs and high mids.
But the biggest thing is, whatever rooms you prefer, listen to reference tracks for a while to orient.

Enjoy!
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #5460
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey guys, I'm sending one more update to the beta team with some very minor fixes and then we should be ready for a VSX 2.0 release. FWIW, many beta testers are stating that the new speakers are the best yet

Steven
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