Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More - Page 181 - Gearspace.com
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Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5401
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
Nice work. Subs and low end sound just right. Just listened through Archon fars. Very cool to see more and more pros using VSX.
Thank you! That's the biggest difference I've noticed since making the VSX switch. My subs are just exactly where I want them to be. I never had that before working in headphones. I would start a mix in headphones and then put it up on my A77Xs and just think "what was I hearing?!?" I just couldn't make it work. I couldn't even tell you the last time I did a car check. Now I can mix from wherever I want and it's such a freeing feeling.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5402
Lives for gear
 
shatz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@ Steven Slate
Could you tell us a little about your mix room as in the room design? I really like those curved panels behind the ravens. Are those custom made?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5403
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
I challenged myself to do a mix for one of the pickiest artists I work with using only VSX.

Before me he was working with cats like TLA and Jaycen Joshua so he's got very high standards and it's made me a better mixer just working with him.

This was the least amount of mix notes he's ever given me, and some people said some very nice things about it on the Slate FB page on the mix critique post.

Full disclaimer I did check once or twice on my Focals and Adams but the mix was 99.5% VSX. It's basically the only thing I use anymore.

VSX is the best

This is dope!

Which room did you mix this in??
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5404
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
Thought I'd share a recent mix I did with VSX. Going for a very 70s vintage sound.

https://soundcloud.com/matthewnowhere/big-clear

I played the drums with Slate drums too, it's the Blackbird expansion for that super dry 70s sound.
I'm guessing Archon Mids for the win ... sounds great in that room
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
I'm guessing Archon Mids for the win ... sounds great in that room
Thanks - yeah Archon mids are definitely default for me, but I switch to NRG nears reasonably often too.
Archon Fars for low end/spaciousness check and then Howie to see if it actually sucks and I just couldn't tell lol.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5406
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONNO ➡️
This is dope!

Which room did you mix this in??
Wow, thank you!

I think it was primarily Archon nears and mids. I check random other ones every now and then just to make sure nothing sounds weird.

What I've found really works for me a far as mixing with VSX is before I start my mix I spend about an hour or so doing "housework" type stuff just listening to my playlist in Spotify with VSX. So I'll be focused on typing emails, doing paperwork etc. while in the background my brain is getting into the whole VSX setting.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5407
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
Wow, thank you!

I think it was primarily Archon nears and mids. I check random other ones every now and then just to make sure nothing sounds weird.

What I've found really works for me a far as mixing with VSX is before I start my mix I spend about an hour or so doing "housework" type stuff just listening to my playlist in Spotify with VSX. So I'll be focused on typing emails, doing paperwork etc. while in the background my brain is getting into the whole VSX setting.
Very good idea - I've noticed that the binaural effect seems to really work best if I'm slightly distracted. The times where it really has popped out for me and I suddenly feel like I'm in a room with speakers have all been when my mind is slightly tired, zoning out, or just not actively listening.

In general though - there should be regular pop up reminding you to listen to reference tracks through VSX. I'd venture to say that the majority of people who didn't get on with them just didn't take the time to listen to reference tracks through them.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5408
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
Very good idea - I've noticed that the binaural effect seems to really work best if I'm slightly distracted. The times where it really has popped out for me and I suddenly feel like I'm in a room with speakers have all been when my mind is slightly tired, zoning out, or just not actively listening.

In general though - there should be regular pop up reminding you to listen to reference tracks through VSX. I'd venture to say that the majority of people who didn't get on with them just didn't take the time to listen to reference tracks through them.
I have OCD for references and trying to focus on different frequecy ranges (how the midrange sounds, how are the hats, how is the low mid, how is the sub? etc.) and I spent a lot of time listening in the last 4 months. To this day, I still hear the strong room in most of the rooms in VSX (I get along well with Archon mids).

The dev of Sienna mentioned (if I understood correctly) that each human has it's own HRTF (head-related transfer function) and is not related only to the ear anatomy but also the body size and shape. VSX uses an average, non-adjustable HRTF therefore will be a big chunk of people that will never click (or will have difficulty) with it because the HRTF will be too different compared to their own.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5409
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit ➡️
I have OCD for references and trying to focus on different frequecy ranges (how the midrange sounds, how are the hats, how is the low mid, how is the sub? etc.) and I spent a lot of time listening in the last 4 months. To this day, I still hear the strong room in most of the rooms in VSX (I get along well with Archon mids).

The dev of Sienna mentioned (if I understood correctly) that each human has it's own HRTF (head-related transfer function) and is not related only to the ear anatomy but also the body size and shape. VSX uses an average, non-adjustable HRTF therefore will be a big chunk of people that will never click (or will have difficulty) with it because the HRTF will be too different compared to their own.
That's interesting, I guess it makes sense. Does Sienna give you more control over the HRTF?

I have a little bit of a 'magic eye' thing with some of the VSX rooms at first - if I've just changed I hear the room but if I relax a little and shut off my mind it kind of emerges for me and then I settle into it. And then occasionally I feel like I'm *really* there. But it's definitely a thing where I have to relax my mind and try and take in the whole gestalt.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5410
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
Very good idea - I've noticed that the binaural effect seems to really work best if I'm slightly distracted. The times where it really has popped out for me and I suddenly feel like I'm in a room with speakers have all been when my mind is slightly tired, zoning out, or just not actively listening.

In general though - there should be regular pop up reminding you to listen to reference tracks through VSX. I'd venture to say that the majority of people who didn't get on with them just didn't take the time to listen to reference tracks through them.
Exactly. I noticed that as well. But once I'm in that space, I generally stay in that space. I've found that listening to music passively is a trick that helps me get to that space. Otherwise I run the risk of being over-critical and the binaural "I'm in a room" effect changes to "hey this sounds kinda funny."

If I start to lose the binaural effect I might switch to HD-Linear for a while. Or better yet grab a coffee and take a break or something.

You're absolutely right about references. And honestly I even do this in my own room now. How I used to just sit down and just pull up a song and start mixing is beyond me.

One other thing that changed VSX from "cool toy" to "essential tool" for me was realizing that I need to take more breaks than I was giving myself. Even if Archon, NRG, and Howie's studio were next door to each other in real life I wouldn't be able to walk back and forth between the sweet spots in two seconds. Or out to my car for that matter. So if I'm gonna switch rooms I'll get up and walk around for a few minutes. Sit back down and listen to a song or two while I check my emails and the NBA scores or whatever.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5411
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Gotta just do what works for you.

The moment I feel myself getting too comfortable with a particular room and speaker, I switch it up to get a different perspective on the mix. A break can work too for resetting your ears, but I don't always have the luxury of taking too many breaks, however short they might be. I gotta work fast so I can get everything I'm juggling done within a certain time frame. So I step away less, but wake my ears up by changing what I'm listening through. Not much different from the way I mix with studio monitors, except I can't change the entire mixing environment as I listen from speaker to speaker.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5412
Gear Maniac
 
Yes, Sienna allows to adjust the stregth of the HRTF (also an average curve, you can't really define your own) and room strength (and a bunch of other parameters like distance between the speakers or a speakers experience vs entirely binaural listening). If you want more distance from the speakers to hear how the bass is propagating, you can do it. If you want complete intimacy, you can have that too.

Personal HRTF measurement already exists (is heavily relied on for VR applications) so when we'll have the option to add our own to VSX or Sienna the experience will be truly realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
That's interesting, I guess it makes sense. Does Sienna give you more control over the HRTF?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5413
Gear Maniac
 
I do lately short minute breaks with a rain recording (basically pink noise). Really evens out the audio perception across the entire spectrum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash ➡️
Gotta just do what works for you.

The moment I feel myself getting too comfortable with a particular room and speaker, I switch it up to get a different perspective on the mix. A break can work too for resetting your ears, but I don't always have the luxury of taking too many breaks, however short they might be. I gotta work fast so I can get everything I'm juggling done within a certain time frame. So I step away less, but wake my ears up by changing what I'm listening through. Not much different from the way I mix with studio monitors, except I can't change the entire mixing environment as I listen from speaker to speaker.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5414
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
Wow, thank you!

I think it was primarily Archon nears and mids. I check random other ones every now and then just to make sure nothing sounds weird.

What I've found really works for me a far as mixing with VSX is before I start my mix I spend about an hour or so doing "housework" type stuff just listening to my playlist in Spotify with VSX. So I'll be focused on typing emails, doing paperwork etc. while in the background my brain is getting into the whole VSX setting.
thats a great tip man, thanks. gonna try that as well as I have a hard time clicking with the rooms up to now (love the linear HD with canopener though).
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5415
Gear Nut
 
As I get used to the rooms, I've noticed I can turn off the 2-second pause and adjust quickly.

Took me about 6 months to get to this level of comfort with the zones though.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5416
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I still have an extra pair I need to sell. Asking $400 shipped and I'll cover the iLok transfer fee.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5417
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWork8a ➡️
As I get used to the rooms, I've noticed I can turn off the 2-second pause and adjust quickly.

Took me about 6 months to get to this level of comfort with the zones though.
Same! The 2spc gets annoying, so it's great that you can turn it off.
At first it wasn't enough. It would feel weird and break the room illusion every time I switched even with the 2spc. Now I can just switch and be like - yeah ok, now I teleported to Howie's room.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5418
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It's like when I use the flying simulation apps on Oculus 2 VR headset, at first I thought I was going to be sick but after several goes at it I feel much better and more in the VR reality.

You have to get your VR sea legs with VSX.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5419
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Oh ...and Mr Steven Slate.... you got me into some trouble with the Mrs today. As a subscriber to the all access bundle you do, my wife thought the all access bundle was something else (see pic).

I downloaded the Vintage Analog Drums zip, but on my desktop it looks like....well ...look at pic
Attached Thumbnails
Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More-vintage....png  
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5420
adl
Lives for gear
 
adl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
Oh ...and Mr Steven Slate.... you got me into some trouble with the Mrs today. As a subscriber to the all access bundle you do, my wife thought the all access bundle was something else (see pic).

I downloaded the Vintage Analog Drums zip, but on my desktop it looks like....well ...look at pic
Now that is funny!
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5421
Lives for gear
 
mattias78's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSpacey ➡️
Oh ...and Mr Steven Slate.... you got me into some trouble with the Mrs today. As a subscriber to the all access bundle you do, my wife thought the all access bundle was something else (see pic).

I downloaded the Vintage Analog Drums zip, but on my desktop it looks like....well ...look at pic
Haha.
That's unfortunate.
Take it easy when he release the modern version.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5422
Gear Addict
 
SamSpacey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
....deleted comment re new site name.......

Last edited by SamSpacey; 2 weeks ago at 01:34 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5423
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I think we can do without the name argument spilling over into this thread. VSX is the only reason I come to this place anymore
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5424
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit ➡️
Personal HRTF measurement already exists (is heavily relied on for VR applications) so when we'll have the option to add our own to VSX or Sienna the experience will be truly realistic.
I brought this up several months ago but no one seemed interested in trying to implement custom HRTFs into the Slate system to see if a custom HRTF made a noticeable improvement. It shouldn't be too hard, expensive or time consuming for someone from the Slate team to give the experiment a shot and see if it works. I don't see how it wouldn't be better than an averaged HRTF, but there isn't a lot of literature on the subject. Again, for their team, it should be easy to run the experiment on their own and post subjective results at least.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5425
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by over-man ➡️
I brought this up several months ago but no one seemed interested in trying to implement custom HRTFs into the Slate system to see if a custom HRTF made a noticeable improvement. It shouldn't be too hard, expensive or time consuming for someone from the Slate team to give the experiment a shot and see if it works. I don't see how it wouldn't be better than an averaged HRTF, but there isn't a lot of literature on the subject. Again, for their team, it should be easy to run the experiment on their own and post subjective results at least.
They probably did but then what? Measurement labs are rare, no idea about the price. And for Slate would be difficult to advertise unless they'll do something like "up to 100% virtual studio immersion*"

*guaranteed only with custom HRTF profile
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5426
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sircuit ➡️
They probably did but then what? Measurement labs are rare, no idea about the price. And for Slate would be difficult to advertise unless they'll do something like "up to 100% virtual studio immersion*"

*guaranteed only with custom HRTF profile
There are several ways to get custom HRTFs using scans of your ears for only a couple hundred dollars without leaving your house, and surely there are places in LA where you could get even better ones, albeit at a higher price point. I'd wager this will be standard tech in a couple of years and know several companies are working on this already for AR / VR / MR applications, as well standard video games.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5427
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by over-man ➡️
There are several ways to get custom HRTFs using scans of your ears for only a couple hundred dollars without leaving your house, and surely there are places in LA where you could get even better ones, albeit at a higher price point. I'd wager this will be standard tech in a couple of years and know several companies are working on this already for AR / VR / MR applications, as well standard video games.
I'm in europe, there is a lab in belgium that makes custom scans and indeed they say the same thing - custom profiles are mandatory and the future for proper VR applications. In 10 years we're going to have a VR daw
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5428
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Just received VSX. Almost all the rooms sound Good and different. My doubt is simple...Which room got the flattest frequency representation?. Pls provide freq infos 🤗
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5429
Gear Maniac
 
assessor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Regarding HRTF. This is Steven Slates answer in post #1609 :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate ➡️
Hello! We studied the effects of head size for quite some time, and even had a "S M L" head size adjustment in an alpha version of the plugin. Ultimately, we found that it's kind of smoke and mirrors. There are far too many variables that come into play in regards to auditory perception. For instance, if two people have the same distance from ear to ear but have different shaped helix and antihelix, this could create a different perception of frequency. The same goes for how the brain interprets auditory signals. The same sized head and ear circumference could perceive frequency response quite differently due to many factors, including genetics and age.

So what we found is that a really high quality, finely tuned, and precise binaural reproduction using an average sized head seemed to please everyone regardless of head size. But, we also have a very natural sounding 5 band EQ for people who need to customize more to their taste, because we'll not win everyone over. I think the EQ is far more powerful than a headsize adjustment, which is going to assume the HRTF filter is exactly how you will perceive things.. but in our tests, it's not. There are too many variables.

Thanks very much for the comments!

Steven
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5430
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by over-man ➡️
There are several ways to get custom HRTFs using scans of your ears for only a couple hundred dollars without leaving your house, and surely there are places in LA where you could get even better ones, albeit at a higher price point. I'd wager this will be standard tech in a couple of years and know several companies are working on this already for AR / VR / MR applications, as well standard video games.
The approach of the JVC Exofield headphones with microphones inside each ear piece for calibration seems promising. During calibration they'll load a matching profile from their server. These profiles were made using different HRTFs from a representative base of people.

If you want to go all in with headphones the Smyth Realiser A16 at 5000,- € offers individual calibration for your ears and a room of your choice. Those measurements cost between 700,- € (Studio room 5.1 and stereo) and 1200,- € (Studio room with Dolby Atmos) here in Europe. Add to this the price of some 1st class cans...


cheers Ralf
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