Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More - Page 175 - Gearspace.com
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Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5221
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger ➡️
I have said in another post, maybe in the AA general discussion thread, that I can see the use for Sienna for people who don't have the cash for VSX or who want another range of perspectives.

But the weak point in Sienna, for me, is that there is no official gauge of the ideal quality of setup between Sienna, headphones and interface. With VSX it is straight forward. The software is designed specifically for the headphones you buy in the package, which are also specially modified to work optimally with the signal processed by the software. The headphones are low impedance so they can be powered effectively through most interfaces. Of course, most users with the higher quality headphones necessary for a great experience out of Sienna will have that covered with decent amps/interfaces but, the varying quality of experience through different headphones means that users will be looking at far more expensive sets of headphones and the means to power them to get what *may be* a better experience out of Sienna. Sienna sounds different through different sets of headphones, fact. How on Earth can I be sure that I am getting a totally useful/accurate version of the software?
+1 on that.
This leads to the question how consistent a headphones model is in terms of build. I mean: how "same" are the individual instances of let's say VSX, HD-600, LCD-1 ... whatever. (Everybody is going to claim to be nearest to perfectly consistent of course, and we would have to measure a lot of headphones to get a "winner" here.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger ➡️
The fact that VSX is zero latency and extremely light on CPU cycles is a huge plus for its users.
+100 from my side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger ➡️
The software interface is simpler in use also which aids workflow.
A matter of taste. I like technical tweaking stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger ➡️
As an entire product and update service, with stellar support behind it, VSX is clearly the superior choice.
For that, I don't agree. Both products have their strengths and disadvantages. Being bound to exactly 1 headphones model is a disadvantage. If this is an important point to someone, they might prefer Sienna, or even Sonarworks. Who knows. That's why I'm not a fan of these "clearly better" statements.
Old 19th March 2021
  #5222
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Will there be spare parts available ? Which ?
Old 19th March 2021
  #5223
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Sorry if this has already been asked. VSX 2.0 is coming out and headphones will be back on sale.

I'm torn between a few options and leaning toward VSX. Is the $40 per month, rent to own program coming back for the second round of VSX sales?
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Old 19th March 2021
  #5224
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yes the $39.99/mo rent to own will be back!

Steven
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Old 19th March 2021
  #5225
Lives for gear
 
I had considered getting Sienna for the 89euro intro price to complement VSX, but they just announced that next week they would release a paid expansion for another 79euros.

Think I will just keep that money and put it towards a second pair of VSX!
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Old 19th March 2021
  #5226
JDO
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger ➡️
This is 100% true. I appreciate the reminder!

However, knowing that the sound of VSX translates so well and hearing what the VSX profile and room simulation out of Sienna sounds like... I just knew it wasn't worth my time. Having one solution for room simulation inside headphones is enough for me. Maybe I'll give it another go with my HD650s but really, I don't want to spend cash on something which I already have.

As a metaphor, if I've got a decent car and I don't earn a great deal, the car gets me where I need to go and comfortably... there's no purpose in buying another car, even if it's a bit cheaper! Kinda like that I guess.

Honestly though, Sienna just doesn't have the tasty punch in the low end no matter what I do with it. And it's a recognisable quality with all sets of speakers/rooms in Sienna. How different will a different set of headphones make in that regard?

Whereas VSX can display all kinds of low end responses and they're all recognisably different and flavourful.
I hear that man!! And agreed -- if it's working well, there's no need at all to change things up. Glad it's doing you right!
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5227
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by philburns ➡️
This leads to the question how consistent a headphones model is in terms of build. I mean: how "same" are the individual instances of let's say VSX, HD-600, LCD-1 ... whatever. (Everybody is going to claim to be nearest to perfectly consistent of course, and we would have to measure a lot of headphones to get a "winner" here.)
Ironically, probably the most "constant" headphone you could get for Sienna is the Slate VSX headphones as the whole point of the custom modification and extremely thorough QA is to keep them all as consistent as possible.

I can with 100% confidence say that at least basic Sennheiser and AKG headphones vary quite a lot from batch to batch.. having been part of purchasing a large bunch for the music school I work at and having tested them all to make sure they work. Sometimes the differences aren't subtle at all!
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Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5228
GBP
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soapmak3r ➡️
I had considered getting Sienna for the 89euro intro price to complement VSX, but they just announced that next week they would release a paid expansion for another 79euros.

Think I will just keep that money and put it towards a second pair of VSX!
Haha thanks for mentioning that. I was thinking to give it a demo but in light of this extra spend I think I won’t bother...
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Old 19th March 2021
  #5229
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone notice these impacting their hearing at all? They seem to be affecting my hearing in strange ways after I use them. It doesn't matter how quietly I run them, or for how long. I've been mixing for years, and have been in bands, and have never had any hearing issues. I find that since I've gotten these I've developed a bit of ringing (in my left ear more than right), and some general pain in both, which lingers after I use them, sometimes for days. I don't want these to be the cause because I love the mixes I'm making with them. But I've really cut back on my use of them out of an abundance of caution.

I was wondering if the physics of the ported bass or something could be interacting negatively with the structure of my ears? Just shooting in the dark here. Not a scientist. I have small ears, and they are fully within the ear cups. I've never experienced anything like this with other headphones I've mixed on (770s, 990s, m50xs, etc.) I seem to remember reading a while back that someone else was having a similar issue and adjusted the EQ to address the problem.

Any help or advice would help to ease my mind. Happy to talk in DMs rather than taking over this thread, as I don't want to distract from the general discussion of what I consider to be a great product. Thanks!
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Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5230
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate ➡️
Yes the $39.99/mo rent to own will be back!

Steven
That seals the deal for me. Haven't bought a pair of headphones in a long time and the new molding design plus additional rooms and speakers in version 2.0!

Signing up for that pre-sale notification NOW!
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Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5231
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
Ironically, probably the most "constant" headphone you could get for Sienna is the Slate VSX headphones as the whole point of the custom modification and extremely thorough QA is to keep them all as consistent as possible.

I can with 100% confidence say that at least basic Sennheiser and AKG headphones vary quite a lot from batch to batch.. having been part of purchasing a large bunch for the music school I work at and having tested them all to make sure they work. Sometimes the differences aren't subtle at all!
Yeah, maybe... I do own 1 pair of VSX, 1 pair of DT-1990, 1 pair of DT-880 and 2 pairs of HD-25. But all that's not enough for a qualified judgement. ;-) The manufacturer most confident in his build variance being the lowest should push these comparisions. Do you hear me, Steven? ;-)
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5232
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by philburns ➡️
For that, I don't agree....
I will certainly agree with the headphones not being ideal for everyone and that there are limiting factors.

As an entire product I will still say that VSX is a better choice, a great set of headphones, fantastic support (AA is pretty all over with their support quite often it seems) for both software and hardware AND future updates free of charge. AA are charging for each set of expansions of which there will be more in the future no doubt. Specially modified hardware. Far lighter software too... It all adds up to create a complete picture in my eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDO ➡️
I hear that man!! And agreed -- if it's working well, there's no need at all to change things up. Glad it's doing you right!
Well, it is always interesting to share my thoughts with other opinionated audio folk, and to read your responses to my thoughts.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5233
Lives for gear
 
robshrock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
Ironically, probably the most "constant" headphone you could get for Sienna is the Slate VSX headphones as the whole point of the custom modification and extremely thorough QA is to keep them all as consistent as possible.

I can with 100% confidence say that at least basic Sennheiser and AKG headphones vary quite a lot from batch to batch.. having been part of purchasing a large bunch for the music school I work at and having tested them all to make sure they work. Sometimes the differences aren't subtle at all!
Wholeheartedly agree with this. I own 5 or 6 pairs of AT ATH-M50s and they all sound different.

I checked out Sienna for a while this afternoon using a couple of my ATs, HD600s, and VSX. All very noticeably different responses in Sienna. Not consistent.

VSX headphones on normal sounded more natural compared to the VSX HD linear profile, which I did not like at all. But you would think changing headphones with matching profiles would yield similar results in Sienna... it does not. And isn’t that the point? Useful perhaps; but a couple of room/headphone combos were making some things sound too pretty, which is the kiss of death for critical mixing. (Kinda like Genelecs can do... haha)

Hearing that AA plans on charging for room paks make this a no-go for me now. I was considering Sienna; but the software is just clunky enough while also being a bit over-engineered, makes Pro Tools playback stop dead in its tracks when changing programs (typical frustrating AA behavior), and doesn’t include enough for the price considering I have to bring the headphones to the party.

Charging for expansions on top? No thanks.

Last edited by robshrock; 20th March 2021 at 03:30 AM..
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Old 20th March 2021
  #5234
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
no different than 'Sample Libraries'.
Old 20th March 2021
  #5235
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The Slate model of adding new rooms at no extra charge is the best model.
Ultimately AA may have to consider allowing users to select which rooms they want.
So say you can select 4 rooms for $X, 8 rooms for $Y etc
I have no interest in getting VSX or Sienna but, from a distance, it seems that, once the novelty has worn off, there is no point in having dozens of rooms to choose from.
You will surely have to get used to your favourite rooms (as users seem to be doing) and stick with those rooms/speakers/spaces.
I don't think the sample library analogy is totally on point.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5236
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld ➡️
I don't think the sample library analogy is totally on point.
Yes it is.

But I agree ... the Slate updating model is one I also like.
Old 20th March 2021
  #5237
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah I was looking at Sienna and getting excited. Then I thought, do I really need to spend another $100 for more rooms?

It hit me that if I had a room that was even half as good as NRG or Archon I probably wouldn't care to look at other rooms or gear or anything. I'd just sit in there and mix. They're both more than adequate.

Then instantly I didn't care about any more rooms anymore. Just my opinion
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5238
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattias78 ➡️
If you own VSX I'm pretty sure you have enough rooms too learn how to mix in for years.
I listen between vsx and sienna with vsx-cans and 650s yesterday. And sienna is great. You can probably set sienna to sound similar to vsx.

But they don't have the amazing rooms that you get in vsx. And no cars or clubs etc.
I know there is a lot of GAS on gearslutz but if you own VSX you're good.
To be able to track through vsx is so cool with so little cpu hassle is a dream
At this point in time, for me it's:

1. IK Multimedia ARC 3.0 for speaker/room correction.
2. Acustica Audio for equalizers.
3. Slate and IK for tape.
4. Kazrog for transformer saturation.
5. Access Analog and MixAnalog for tube saturation. (Plugins still can't compete in this arena, IMHO)

5. Lexicon, Relab and IK for reverb.
6. Sound Toys for delay
7. Pulsar, Slate, Black Rooster, Fuse Audio Labs and DMG for compression. (Yes, I am a compressor slut)

And now, Slate for headphones correction/speaker/room emulation!
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Old 20th March 2021
  #5239
Gear Maniac
 
After using 3 months my VSX's headband have a cracked..Since there is 1 year warranty I wanted to repair it or exchange to new one but my country's distributor says it costs about 130 usd for repairing because it is not spontaneous failure. Is this official polocy of Slate? I'm disappointed because I've never broke any headphones. I didn't even drop VSX though.. It's brittle than usual studio headphones.

Last edited by kojei; 20th March 2021 at 05:13 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5240
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kojei ➡️
After using 3 months my VSX's headband have a cracked..Since there is 1 year warranty I wanted to repair it or exchange to new one but my country's distributor says it costs about 130 usd for repairing because it is not spontaneous failure. Is this official polocy of Slate? I'm disappointed because I've never broke any headphones. I didn't even drop VSX though.. It's brittle than usual studio headphones.
It's a known issue from a bad production run. You're covered. Just hit up support. They've been super fast to correct it so far
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5241
Gear Maniac
 
Really? I'll contact to slate's support. Thanks for the info anyway.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5242
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kojei ➡️
After using 3 months my VSX's headband have a cracked..Since there is 1 year warranty I wanted to repair it or exchange to new one but my country's distributor says it costs about 130 usd for repairing because it is not spontaneous failure. Is this official polocy of Slate? I'm disappointed because I've never broke any headphones. I didn't even drop VSX though.. It's brittle than usual studio headphones.
This has been covered a LOT in this thread, although to be fair, this thread is huge. Still, search is your friend.

Anyway...

Do NOT go through the place where you bought them. Contact Slate support. They should take care of you. Amongst the best customer support I have ever had.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5243
Gear Addict
 
Prahlad's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyheymymy ➡️
Anyone notice these impacting their hearing at all? They seem to be affecting my hearing in strange ways after I use them. It doesn't matter how quietly I run them, or for how long. I've been mixing for years, and have been in bands, and have never had any hearing issues. I find that since I've gotten these I've developed a bit of ringing (in my left ear more than right), and some general pain in both, which lingers after I use them, sometimes for days. I don't want these to be the cause because I love the mixes I'm making with them. But I've really cut back on my use of them out of an abundance of caution.

I was wondering if the physics of the ported bass or something could be interacting negatively with the structure of my ears? Just shooting in the dark here. Not a scientist. I have small ears, and they are fully within the ear cups. I've never experienced anything like this with other headphones I've mixed on (770s, 990s, m50xs, etc.) I seem to remember reading a while back that someone else was having a similar issue and adjusted the EQ to address the problem.

Any help or advice would help to ease my mind. Happy to talk in DMs rather than taking over this thread, as I don't want to distract from the general discussion of what I consider to be a great product. Thanks!
As I think this is relevant for the product: I have also hurt my ears with them. They are so linear and phase accurate and go so loud without distortion that it is easy to misjudge monitoring levels. (I was blasting them) a few weeks of no use cleared me up..l we re moving houses. Would recommend ppl using them to be careful of levels. Had a similar thing with KH O300... so clean that volume easily creeps up and the transients are punishing.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5244
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahlad ➡️
As I think this is relevant for the product: I have also hurt my ears with them. They are so linear and phase accurate and go so loud without distortion that it is easy to misjudge monitoring levels. (I was blasting them) a few weeks of no use cleared me up..l we re moving houses. Would recommend ppl using them to be careful of levels. Had a similar thing with KH O300... so clean that volume easily creeps up and the transients are punishing.
I still remember my first time in a really well treated/tuned room. I was engineering for a producer who liked to turn the mains to an earth shaking level. To my surprise, despite knowing that we were listening LOUD, it didn't feel that loud.

My biggest takeaway from that day was that so much of what we perceive as "loud" doesn't come from actual SPL so much as it comes from distortion, room resonances, reflections etc... Pretty crazy.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5245
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyheymymy ➡️
Anyone notice these impacting their hearing at all? They seem to be affecting my hearing in strange ways after I use them. It doesn't matter how quietly I run them, or for how long. I've been mixing for years, and have been in bands, and have never had any hearing issues. I find that since I've gotten these I've developed a bit of ringing (in my left ear more than right), and some general pain in both, which lingers after I use them, sometimes for days. I don't want these to be the cause because I love the mixes I'm making with them. But I've really cut back on my use of them out of an abundance of caution.

I was wondering if the physics of the ported bass or something could be interacting negatively with the structure of my ears? Just shooting in the dark here. Not a scientist. I have small ears, and they are fully within the ear cups. I've never experienced anything like this with other headphones I've mixed on (770s, 990s, m50xs, etc.) I seem to remember reading a while back that someone else was having a similar issue and adjusted the EQ to address the problem.

Any help or advice would help to ease my mind. Happy to talk in DMs rather than taking over this thread, as I don't want to distract from the general discussion of what I consider to be a great product. Thanks!
At the beginning, I had strange feelings about them : I was finding (and still find) VSX the best headphones I ever had (in terms of accuracy, details, etc. etc.) but I was feeling a kind of tension in the ear while using them. It was not pain, but a kind of discomfort/fatigue of hearing (I don't have this anymore now).
It was something I never experienced with headphones, but maybe the kind of feeling you have with in-ear monitors (even if it may be very different).
Not because it was physically pushing too much on my head, but because the sound pressure was strong in the ears. Maybe because of the bass technology or the hermetic feel.

After 2 or 3 weeks, I accustomed completly and I don't feel again this tension. I'm using them daily since november 2020.

I've got some ideas about that :
- the headphones are VERY closed, and if you've got small ears (like me and you) they cover them entirely and are kind of hermetic (not like a DT 770 for exemple, to compare to other closed headphones). So the feeling is strange at first and may be associated with discomfort.
- I may have had, since weeks before I started to use VSX, a plug of earwax that was causing me problems while using VSX, but was too small to cause real issues in normal times (just a subconscious feeling of blocked ears). During few days I washed both ears with hot water (no more than 40° of course) that I pumped gently in the ear canals (they make pumps specifically designed for that) and after some days I get rid of this (or theses) earwax plug. You can do this under the shower, and it's not much more invasive than getting water in your ears while washing your hair. It went much better after that.
- I always use very conservative levels with VSX. I find that theses headphones are not on the "listening pleasure" side, but more on the analytical side (even if they became my favorite device for listening some music now) : they are very punchy and I found the transients can get very harsh if they are harsh at the beginning. Listening during hours a raw mix too boxy or too harsh can be a quite nasty experience (some rooms in VSX help a bit with that), because all this boxyness and harshness is directly in front of you during hours.
With VSX, I started to hear many fx I was not hearing before on the music I'm listening since years : clipping, distortion on tiny details and discrete reverbs are becoming obvious now.
The bass is so detailed and precised on VSX (without being hyped) that you can concentrate only on this, but actually I'm amazed at the level of detail from low-mids to the very highs.
I used a lot the DT-770 and the DT-990 before : they can't be compared to the VSX, because they are much more smooooth (I better say sluggish). They are perfect for producing and recording without much ear fatigue because of this sluggish feeling and because they are quite dark (if you except some disturbing little peak in the very highs). But it was very difficult (if not impossible) to mix on them something that translate well anywhere else.
- Some psychological tension (because of the ****ty times we are living in) can cause ear problems. Hearing is a muscle (too) and exactly like tension or stress can cause back problems, it can cause hearing problems if the ears are the organ you are using the most during the day.
Stress can cause earwax plugs too (because the body is producing more wax than normally).

So maybe your problems come from using the VSX the same way as you should use the Beyer headphones you are speaking about (I don't know the m50x), and maybe you have a discrete earwax plug and tensed life at the moment that make the problem even bigger.

I found that because VSX was so accurate, it could reveal problems in your mix but too in your hearing. For exemple, I discovered with VSX my left and right ears don't have the same frequency response (I confirmed that with another pair of headphones, so it's not the VSX headphones that were faulty). I never felt that before...

Anyway (sorry for the long post), I had the same feeling at the beginning with VSX but now we make just a perfect couple...
If you have issues with VSX, it may just be that this pair of headphone is revealing issues you've got with earing but was not conscious before (or just because these are new issues).
Maybe see your doctor and check if you don't have an earwax plug (or any other ear problem). It can cause very strange issues with hearing, specially when you are a musician/mixer stressing your ears daily...
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5246
Gear Maniac
 
Evian's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyheymymy ➡️
Anyone notice these impacting their hearing at all? They seem to be affecting my hearing in strange ways after I use them. It doesn't matter how quietly I run them, or for how long. I've been mixing for years, and have been in bands, and have never had any hearing issues. I find that since I've gotten these I've developed a bit of ringing (in my left ear more than right), and some general pain in both, which lingers after I use them, sometimes for days. I don't want these to be the cause because I love the mixes I'm making with them. But I've really cut back on my use of them out of an abundance of caution.

I was wondering if the physics of the ported bass or something could be interacting negatively with the structure of my ears? Just shooting in the dark here. Not a scientist. I have small ears, and they are fully within the ear cups. I've never experienced anything like this with other headphones I've mixed on (770s, 990s, m50xs, etc.) I seem to remember reading a while back that someone else was having a similar issue and adjusted the EQ to address the problem.

Any help or advice would help to ease my mind. Happy to talk in DMs rather than taking over this thread, as I don't want to distract from the general discussion of what I consider to be a great product. Thanks!
i can completely relate to this feeling! However, since the profiles update when i found out i am an 1.8, this issue has been gone for me. It was profile 1 that was fatiguing my ears almost instantly.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5247
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahlad ➡️
As I think this is relevant for the product: I have also hurt my ears with them. They are so linear and phase accurate and go so loud without distortion that it is easy to misjudge monitoring levels. (I was blasting them) a few weeks of no use cleared me up..l we re moving houses. Would recommend ppl using them to be careful of levels. Had a similar thing with KH O300... so clean that volume easily creeps up and the transients are punishing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
I still remember my first time in a really well treated/tuned room. I was engineering for a producer who liked to turn the mains to an earth shaking level. To my surprise, despite knowing that we were listening LOUD, it didn't feel that loud.

My biggest takeaway from that day was that so much of what we perceive as "loud" doesn't come from actual SPL so much as it comes from distortion, room resonances, reflections etc... Pretty crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evian ➡️
i can completely relate to this feeling! However, since the profiles update when i found out i am an 1.8, this issue has been gone for me. It was profile 1 that was fatiguing my ears almost instantly.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This is all helpful and puts my mind a little more at ease.
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5248
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate ➡️
Yes the $39.99/mo rent to own will be back!

Steven
what about spare parts ?
Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5249
Gear Nut
 
DivideByZero's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
user error

Last edited by DivideByZero; 22nd March 2021 at 06:14 PM.. Reason: dag nabbit
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Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5250
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macaroni ➡️
The issue with SoundSource isn't Slate's problem AFAIK.

SoundSource has to make the changes.

Quote:
Using VSX thru Equalizer apo the 2second pause isn’t working, and profile 2 isn’t working. Really wish there was a better alternative or standalone utility.
It seems it's not only soundsource that has a problem. Maybe that suggests the issue (or at least some of it) is at Slate's end ?
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