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Defaulter clip gain normaliser v2 does LKFS
Old 21st August 2020
  #1
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🎧 15 years
Defaulter clip gain normaliser v2 does LKFS

Quiet Art released version 2 of their clip gain normaliser plugin Defaulter.
Defeaulter can now measure LKFS and normalise clips to loudness specifications.

Old 21st August 2020
  #2
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🎧 10 years
any plans for vst/windows version?
Old 22nd August 2020
  #3
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TVPostSound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Nice work, Vedat!!!

Worth the $25 upgrade!!!
Old 24th August 2020
  #4
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Haven't seen LKFS in years, yes it's the same, but 99% of the time, the term LUFS is used, why using LKFS in 2020?
Old 24th August 2020 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp72 ➑️
Haven't seen LKFS in years, yes it's the same, but 99% of the time, the term LUFS is used, why using LKFS in 2020?
ITU BS.1770 and ATSC still refer to LKFS.

LKFS and LUFS are the same thing, what's in a name?
Old 24th August 2020 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound ➑️
ITU BS.1770 and ATSC still refer to LKFS.

LKFS and LUFS are the same thing, what's in a name?
Yes I know, but EBU R 128 is far more used, and it includes ITU-R BSS.1770 into it, but they name it LUFS
Old 25th August 2020
  #7
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Windows VST?
Old 27th August 2020
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim ➑️
any plans for vst/windows version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➑️
Windows VST?
It doesn't make much sense, it's closely tied to and written for PT. And it basically subs for missing built-in feature of PT.

It's an AudioSuite enabled (offline) AAX plugin, which non-destructively adds calculated clip gain offset from desired loudness or peak level target.
It uses system accessibility feature at MacOS X to send respective clip-gain commands to Pro Tools app. AFAIK there's no such generic feature on Windows.

So it's not really possible to adapt it to realtime plugin format like VST and Windows.
VST doesn't offer any generic and standardized way, how to access complete audio data at given clip, faster than real-time. Like it is possible with AudioSuite in PT. That's pretty essential feature for some processing like loudness normalization, if you want to avoid waiting for realtime playback pass. Closest to that is Melodyne ARA, but it's rather complex and of course needs also full DAW support for that.
Similarly there's no standard and generic way, how a plugin can issue some internal commands to host DAWs - and even then, it would be almost impossible to make something which would work across all DAWs, because of different feature set.

For instance Reaper is very extensible and has public API for calling of its internal functions, so for many years there are addons, which brought this very functionality (non-destructive offline normalization according to peak, RMS or loudness level).
Some of most recent 10.5 updates added that feature also to Cubase, so you can also normalize audio there via built-in functionality. Assuming the same is also already in Nuendo.

So if you want loudness normalization of audio clips/items for your other DAWs, better ask for that feature its respective vendors. It's has to be closely tied to particular DAW.

Michal
Old 27th August 2020
  #9
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🎧 15 years
Thanks Michal for explaining it so eloquently.


We did try to make a Windows version but it stopped in its tracks because of a single road block we can't get through.

Why LKFS?
I'm from New Zealand, and nobody calls it LUFS here.
Also, for example Netflix calls it LKFS not LUFS.
Old 27th August 2020 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr ➑️
It doesn't make much sense, it's closely tied to and written for PT. And it basically subs for missing built-in feature of PT.

It's an AudioSuite enabled (offline) AAX plugin, which non-destructively adds calculated clip gain offset from desired loudness or peak level target.
It uses system accessibility feature at MacOS X to send respective clip-gain commands to Pro Tools app. AFAIK there's no such generic feature on Windows.

So it's not really possible to adapt it to realtime plugin format like VST and Windows.
VST doesn't offer any generic and standardized way, how to access complete audio data at given clip, faster than real-time. Like it is possible with AudioSuite in PT. That's pretty essential feature for some processing like loudness normalization, if you want to avoid waiting for realtime playback pass. Closest to that is Melodyne ARA, but it's rather complex and of course needs also full DAW support for that.
Similarly there's no standard and generic way, how a plugin can issue some internal commands to host DAWs - and even then, it would be almost impossible to make something which would work across all DAWs, because of different feature set.

For instance Reaper is very extensible and has public API for calling of its internal functions, so for many years there are addons, which brought this very functionality (non-destructive offline normalization according to peak, RMS or loudness level).
Some of most recent 10.5 updates added that feature also to Cubase, so you can also normalize audio there via built-in functionality. Assuming the same is also already in Nuendo.

So if you want loudness normalization of audio clips/items for your other DAWs, better ask for that feature its respective vendors. It's has to be closely tied to particular DAW.

Michal
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
Old 27th August 2020
  #11
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As I understand it, the normalizer plugin in AudioSuite Pro Tools, has always been able to adjust peak and RMS level on audio files. So besides LUFS there is no difference between the two?
Old 27th August 2020
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim ➑️
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
You're welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by lydfar ➑️
As I understand it, the normalizer plugin in AudioSuite Pro Tools, has always been able to adjust peak and RMS level on audio files. So besides LUFS there is no difference between the two?
There is another important difference, the built-in Normalize AudioSuite effect will destructively process the region, while Defaulter never processes original audio, it sets clip gain according to detected difference to selected peak or loudness target.

Michal
Old 27th August 2020 | Show parent
  #13
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TVPostSound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lydfar ➑️
As I understand it, the normalizer plugin in AudioSuite Pro Tools, has always been able to adjust peak and RMS level on audio files. So besides LUFS there is no difference between the two?
Vedat might correct me if Im wrong V2 seems to be better at averaging calculation than V1 with RMS, which I think only saw the loudest part.
Old 27th August 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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Mundox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound ➑️
Vedat might correct me if Im wrong V2 seems to be better at averaging calculation than V1 with RMS, which I think only saw the loudest part.
Yeah it definitely is much better because K-Weighting is better at this than old RMS.

RMS doesn't really have a dialed-in standard. You'd be horrified to see the variation in results of a bunch of RMS metering plugins on the same material.
But for the longest time I wasn't convinced that K-weighting would make much difference on a clip by clip process.
Turns out, it does.
Old 6th October 2021 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox ➑️
Yeah it definitely is much better because K-Weighting is better at this than old RMS.

RMS doesn't really have a dialed-in standard. You'd be horrified to see the variation in results of a bunch of RMS metering plugins on the same material.
But for the longest time I wasn't convinced that K-weighting would make much difference on a clip by clip process.
Turns out, it does.
Why does the manual suggests to "Change your clip gain to 0.5db steps in ProTools prefs."? It seems to function with ProTools prefs at .1 just fine.
Old 6th October 2021 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issadore ➑️
Why does the manual suggests to "Change your clip gain to 0.5db steps in ProTools prefs."? It seems to function with ProTools prefs at .1 just fine.
But does it reach the correct level?

I tried this in the past.
Defaulter counts steps, say you're 2 dB down, it calculates 4 moves of .5
At .1 you're only gaining .4
Old 6th October 2021
  #17
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Mundox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What he said.
It calculates and counts in 0.5db steps.
Old 6th October 2021
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Got it, thanks! I love the software!
Old 6th October 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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TVPostSound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox ➑️
What he said.
It calculates and counts in 0.5db steps.
Ive been using Defaulter waaaay too long!!!
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