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Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin
Old 11th April 2020
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Any news on 6000 and Quantec?

Btw, I still dont understand...are VSR S24 and 6000 identical algos or its a completely different one?

Thx, cant wait to try these two reverbs.
Old 8th August 2020 | Show parent
  #62
Any news about the 6000?
Old 8th August 2020 | Show parent
  #63
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Dan Eriksson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamzenoir ➡️
Any news about the 6000?
From the man himself:
Relab SONSIG Rev A (Algorithmic Reverb)
Old 8th August 2020 | Show parent
  #64
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Eriksson ➡️
This should be in this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➡️
They sound very good

VSR REV6000 is an enormous plugin - This is undoubtedly our biggest plugin ever. The number of algorithms are enormous - 2 (modes) * 14 (ER types) * 16 (Sizes) * 6 (channels) = 2688 combinations. There are 70 completely different reverb structures which are modified to generate all 2688 combinations. This is very different from any other reverb plugins - no other plugin has so many algorithms.

So when you change the ER type the reverb algorithms also change - some have a maximum reverb time of 2.7 sec others much longer. Some highly reflective others darker.

That's not even all - we have already shown the changes to the ER types which has completely different filtering structure for each ER type and per channel. 14 (ER Types) * 101 (Lo Color) * 101 (Hi Color) * 6 (channels) = 856.884 combinations of filters. The lookup table for only the filters are enormous.

And we constantly get trapped in 'Oh this new function also needs to be implemented.....'

The QRS - this little beauty has a lot of ... ehm peculiar behaviors that has been replicated. Again trapped in 'adding new features'
Old 1st November 2020
  #65
Deleted 9d8db46
Guest
Bump!
Hello. My name is Robert and I'm a Reverbaholic.
I need more Relab. I'm sorry - I'm working on my addiction, but I'm in quarantine and I need a fix!
Old 2nd November 2020 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 ➡️
Bump!
Hello. My name is Robert and I'm a Reverbaholic.
I need more Relab. I'm sorry - I'm working on my addiction, but I'm in quarantine and I need a fix!
I feel you man. What's worst is that "REV6000" license is sitting on my iLok account, and I can't use it.

cheers,
Lox
Old 3rd November 2020
  #67
Here for the gear
 
Any news on this? Will there be an upgrade path from VSR S24 to the 6000? I'm completely in love with Sonsig and considering getting the S24 on sale.

TY
Old 3rd November 2020
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Also off topic but a mix lock on the LX480 would be appreciated (if there is one I can't locate it).
Old 3rd November 2020 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Addict
 
Home Studio 87's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 ➡️
Also off topic but a mix lock on the LX480 would be appreciated (if there is one I can't locate it).
in the setup section page 2
Old 4th November 2020 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Studio 87 ➡️
in the setup section page 2
Thanks.
Old 15th March 2021
  #71
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🎧 15 years
Just saw an official TC 6000 was announced.
Old 15th March 2021 | Show parent
  #72
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mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Just saw an official TC 6000 was announced.
and i confidently bet it does *not* sound like the hardware 6000.
Old 15th March 2021 | Show parent
  #73
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🎧 15 years
Different algos?
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Nut
 
damien's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah, when I saw the video today, I thought about this thread right away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU5jKhp_oUE
Old 17th March 2021 | Show parent
  #75
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy ➡️
and i confidently bet it does *not* sound like the hardware 6000.
LOL

As a matter of fact. You are right. The VSS4 native sound even better than my Reverb 4000.
You don't need more than listen to the default preset VSS4HD Large Hall to be convinced to buy it.
Wow!
Old 17th March 2021 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild ➡️
LOL

As a matter of fact. You are right. The VSS4 native sound even better than my Reverb 4000.
You don't need more than listen to the default preset VSS4HD Large Hall to be convinced to buy it.
Wow!
I'm not getting the same impression here, but I'm comparing to my memory of the 6000, not directly to the hardware. In any case, reports are suggesting that it's an absolute cpu chonker. Until they can cull the digital footprint, it's a tough sell. This could be where Relab earns customers with their version. They tend to write efficient plugins, and doing so from scratch will be beneficial.
Old 17th March 2021 | Show parent
  #77
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
I'm not getting the same impression here, but I'm comparing to my memory of the 6000, not directly to the hardware. In any case, reports are suggesting that it's an absolute cpu chonker. Until they can cull the digital footprint, it's a tough sell. This could be where Relab earns customers with their version. They tend to write efficient plugins, and doing so from scratch will be beneficial.
CPU footprint is literally zero, 0, nada. It is not even an issue for discussion.
VSS4 show 0% of my iMac Pro 3.2 gHz 8 core CPU in Pro Tools Ultimate, iMac Pro 3.2 gHz 8 core. I believe I can run 100s of them. Can try tomorrow.
VSS3 similar.
VSS3 Native sounds identical to my TDM version which should be the same "DSP code" as the M3000 algorithms.
VSS4 sounds just beautiful.
NonLin2 Native I will compare tomorrow with the TDM version.
MD3 and MD4 I am not very interested in, but they were included in the bundle.

EDIT.
Sure it IS using CPU but I could run 60 instances of VSS4 on iMac Pro. See screenshot
Attached Thumbnails
Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin-skarmavbild-2021-03-18-kl.-08.09.21.jpg  

Last edited by Firechild; 18th March 2021 at 08:20 AM..
Old 17th March 2021
  #78
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
A reverb that operates completely outside the CPU would be amazing. 0% must be bypassed -- not real world usage. Here's what I was referring to in the other thread: "Be aware, at least on my system, VSS4 is much more cpu-hungry than anything else I have - around 25% ASIO load for one instance on an i7, 3.2GHz system in Nuendo."

Others have reported the same. On my 12-core trashcan I'm seeing about an 18% cpu hit when VSS4 is activate and audio is running through it. It's an older machine but still one of the most powerful Macs. And that is indeed one of the hungriest plugins I own. I don't know of any plugins, least of all reverbs, that don't use the CPU when they're reverbing.
Old 18th March 2021 | Show parent
  #79
kdm
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild ➡️
CPU footprint is literally zero, 0, nada. It is not even an issue for discussion.
VSS4 show 0% of my iMac Pro 3.2 gHz 8 core CPU in Pro Tools Ultimate, iMac Pro 3.2 gHz 8 core.
I would say that is impressive, but are you sure it isn't bypassed or not passing audio? No reverb has 0% cpu load if it sounds half decent. VSS4 is high load here in both Nuendo 11 and ProTools 2020, as previously commented, but I suspect that may be a graphics bug, which is why it is only high on some systems, and not isolated to Windows or Mac.

2C Audio's B2 is about half the load of VSS4 in its lowest quality mode (1x oversampling, and "Excellent"), but at 2x oversampling, or interpolation set to "Perfection", it is higher. Even at the lowest interpolation, and 2x oversampling, B2 sounds more spacious (better realistic depth) than VSS4, partly due to the 2 engines being more flexible for early/late designs. With highest quality diffusion for both engines, 4x oversampling and interpolation set to "Obsession", a single instance of B2 maxes out my i7/6-core/3Ghz.

I'm not really surprised if VSS4 is a bit cpu-hungry as the tail is very nice - on par with B2 running at 2x oversampling, but 0% is highly suspect if it is actually doing anything. But hey, if TC/Behringer landed on a golden algorithm that bypasses the host cpu and runs at in a quantum zero point energy state, great. That would certainly justify an instant buy.

All that said... the Rev6000 is the one I'm most interested in of the new reverb prospects. Hope there is news soon.

Last edited by kdm; 18th March 2021 at 06:14 AM..
Old 18th March 2021
  #80
Relab didn't post new things at their FB page last for 3 months.
They need to hurry up.
Old 18th March 2021 | Show parent
  #81
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I could run 60 stereo instances of VSS4 Native in Pro Tools Ultimate on iMac Pro 8 core 3.2GHz. Buffersize 128 samples if that matters.
So, sure it was not 0 CPU load and maybe slightly more than an average algorithmic reverbplugin, but still not that bad
(with audio going through but Pro tools seems to process the reverbs even when audio playback stopped btw)
Attached Thumbnails
Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin-skarmavbild-2021-03-18-kl.-08.09.21.jpg  
Old 18th March 2021 | Show parent
  #82
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild ➡️
I could run 60 stereo instances of VSS4 Native in Pro Tools Ultimate on iMac Pro 8 core 3.2GHz. Buffersize 128 samples if that matters.
So, sure it was not 0 CPU load and maybe slightly more than an average algorithmic reverbplugin, but still not that bad
(with audio going through but Pro tools seems to process the reverbs even when audio playback stopped btw)
Run audio through each of those instances and let us know how long it takes for the Mac to catch fire. Our machines have very similar horsepower and as I stated I get a 27% hit with one single instance of VSS4, which is far beyond just slightly more than the average algorithmic reverb. I can truly load many instances of some of these Relab and Liquidsonics verbs and have plenty of cpu to spare. And I'm not sure what purpose it serves to fill a session with idle plugins.
Old 18th March 2021
  #83
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elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I started a new session this morning and before populating with anything else I wanted to test VSS4. I was able to add two instances -- the 3rd one forced the CPU to 100%. TWO instances, and that was without anything else. There are no two ways about it: this is a hog and in need of optimization. And, yes, when the session is parked usage drops to almost nothing. So VSS4 is highly efficient when not being used as a reverb.
Old 18th March 2021 | Show parent
  #84
kdm
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I am guessing this is a graphics or library issue, but it would have to be common between Win8/10 and OSX.

This seems to point to something along those lines:

I loaded VSS4 with one instance each of 6 other reverbs to compare last night, along with 2C Audio B2 (also VSR24). Normally this would kick the ASIO meter up above 50%, but it didn't. It stayed around 30% - which VSS4 should consume alone. B2, set to the high quality settings I was using should have taken 20-25% itself (and VSR24, another 10% or so), but together, they didn't increase much beyond the original 30%.

FWIW, usage dropping to zero when the transport is stopped means plugin processing is idled in stop by the DAW. Some do (Logic), some don't (Nuendo/Cubase - though there is an option).

There may be some overlap or anomaly, and I am guessing it could be GUI-related. I've filed a tech support request with TC/MusicTribe, and did get a message that it was sent to developers.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
So VSS4 is highly efficient when not being used as a reverb.
I swear I could hear Statler and Waldorf saying this!

Anyway I tried VSS4 on my 2018 MBP (6-cores) - with Logic Pro X and at 128 buffer size - and it read 25% out of a single core... when audio is passing through it!! Definitely very hungry plugin!

It sounds gorgeous, though, and on par, if not better, than my beloved VSR S24.

cheers,
Lox

p.s.
Does anybody know why on almost every VSS4 presets the HP is astoundingly low? Like 2 or 3kHz? Is it a very gentle type of curve?
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #86
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo ➡️
I started a new session this morning and before populating with anything else I wanted to test VSS4. I was able to add two instances -- the 3rd one forced the CPU to 100%. TWO instances, and that was without anything else. There are no two ways about it: this is a hog and in need of optimization. And, yes, when the session is parked usage drops to almost nothing. So VSS4 is highly efficient when not being used as a reverb.
My session with 60 instances was running and looping for minutes. Audio passing through each plugin. 24bit 44.1khz drumloops.
I am also a software developer so I know what I am doing.
With multiple M1 chips in the next generation of Mac Pros, CPU power issues will be obsolete when coming to audio production.
Old 19th March 2021
  #87
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
How much help are you getting from the HDX cards? No civilian with a non-military-grade machine is getting anywhere near 60 instances on the native CPU. Everyone who's been discussing this mentions 20-35% usage for a single instance. As I said, we have very similar horsepower in our Macs, yet I get 2 comfortably -- 3 maxes out the CPU. How you're able to get 20 times the usage of everyone else is outside my understanding, unless something else is involved that's not being revealed.

In any case, those interested in buying VSS4 should expect what everyone (with the exception of this single instance) is suggesting: that it is a high-usage reverb and a the 14-day trial would be a wise test drive. And back to the point of this thread (VSS4 has its own), I expect the Relab option to hold a much lighter footprint.
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #88
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Firechild's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok, I did a test in Reaper which can show you exactly the CPU usage for each track.
So I have several reverbs with live input active at 128 samples latency, 44.1kHz.
To name a few numbers.
"Jupiter Fields" is Relab VSR S24 with 0.60% CPU
"40x40" is VSS3 native reverb with 0.18& CPU
VSS4 Large Hall is indeed the "heaviest" reverb on the list but just a notch more than Relabs at 0.84%. Meaning 60 instances within Pro Tools is a very correct figure. Mojave, iMac Pro 8 core 3.2 Ghz.
So showing the CPU load with the VSS4 native is in pair with the Relab VSR S24 I will now rest my case in this matter.

EDIT:3

I found an important setting in Reaper!
Audio Buffering:
Allow live FX multiprocessong on: (8) CPUS:s
Check that one!
Attached Thumbnails
Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin-skarmavbild-2021-03-21-kl.-17.28.54.jpg  

Last edited by Firechild; 21st March 2021 at 09:22 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #89
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M Albazy's Avatar
VSS4 does sound really good, especially for realistic rooms. But CPU usage is like 24% on my i7-8700.
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