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erwinor 2nd June 2005 08:48 PM

U 87 Ai vs ???
 
What mic do you think could contend a U 87 AI for vocals?

Yiannis

drtaudio 2nd June 2005 10:27 PM

U87 replacement
 
Hi Yainnis, The venerable U87!!!! In my 30 odd years of recording experience I have had a "love/hate" relationship with the U87. It can be very nasty on some vocals but on the 80's punk/rock "Headpins" the nastyness of the U87 was an advantage in cutting through "Too Loud McClouds" huge guitar tracks.

The APEX 415 at around $150 come very close and with a bit more headroom. Not a huge economical loss if you mike the toms with these and and "animal" nails the mike with a drum stick. Selecting these economical Chinese microphones is important as the price point is low because of limited quality control and out of specification microphones can slip by. However, generally the APEX microphone provide incredible sound value for your buck. We have had no problem returning an "defective" microphones to the distributor.

However, the high end Chinese NTEC/FEILO/SE N3300/Z3300 probably catches the best features of the U87 while improving the high frequency response and offering a shielded output transformer. I sell N3300 microphone tested in the a aluminum flight case with the very rugged shock-mount for $575. The is a very rugged and well made microphone.

Cheers, Dave

C/G 2nd June 2005 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drtaudio
but on the 80's punk/rock "Headpins"

Man I have not heard anyone mention that band in a long time. I had to look to see if you were from Canada. Is that you Mr. Thomas?

erwinor 3rd June 2005 05:37 AM

I'm assuming you mean mics that are around the same price or less,

yes Nathan you are right.

So do you thing that a U 195 sounds better on nasty and sometimes wooly vocals too?

I know that this has been mentioned a lot of times but u 87 seems to be a unique couple with 737sp.

My poblem is that I record mostly nasty vocals(2-3k just killing me)
It mustn't be the room after all the treatment I have done here.
whatever mic I use there is always something bad in that range.
I don't know where to look for it.
Another problem is that even I use close micing techniques the sound always seem to be distant ,somehow, and it doesn't hit me in the neck or stomach.boing

Thank you guys

ron florentine 3rd June 2005 07:01 AM

Welcome drtaudio.......you finally joined GS .......anyway just recieved my DRT audio modified Apex 460 .....havent had much time to use it yet...sounds good on my first quick listen. Anyway it was great dealing with you (Dave Thomas) on modifying this mic.......thanks for the work you did.............will give feedback on the mic after i use it on a few sessions!

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio kfhkh

Guest 3rd June 2005 02:13 PM

I have not heard every mic in the world but, I have heard a few and most of the cheap stuff trying to knock off the 87.

AT4050,4033,4040
RODE NT1,NT1A,NT2,NTV
Soundelux U95
A few Nady's I don't know the models as these were someone elses we had over for a shoot-out once.
Same person brough an Apex as well.

Many of these mics hold their own and are great mics IMHO.
However, not one of these comes close to my 87.
My 87 has a fur and thickness that I have not heard in another mic.
Solo'ed it almost always sounds like the weaker contender but, in the mix and taking eq it wins quite often.

My 87 tends to prefer Focurite (Red1, 110) pres.

No mic is _better_, nor is the 87 _better_ than any other mic.

If you want an 87 get one. You will like it and if you don't sell it and get your money back. Try that with a Nady, RODE, Apex!

D

Doublehelix 3rd June 2005 03:34 PM

Quote:

However, not one of these comes close to my 87.
My 87 has a fur and thickness that I have not heard in another mic.
Solo'ed it almost always sounds like the weaker contender but, in the mix and taking eq it wins quite often.
I'd have agree here. I have heard several low-cost mics that have a "similar" sound to the U87, but when you listen to them side-by-side, it is very, VERY obvious to my ears at least, that the U87 has the richer, fuller sound.


Quote:

My 87 tends to prefer Focurite (Red1, 110) pres.
Isn't that funny? Eveyone is different! I have the Focusrite ISA428 and I think the U87 sounds just "ok" through that pre compared to some of my other pres. My favorite on the U87 for vocals is the Telefunken V672 (solid state) or my Great River.


Quote:

No mic is _better_, nor is the 87 _better_ than any other mic.

If you want an 87 get one. You will like it and if you don't sell it and get your money back. Try that with a Nady, RODE, Apex!
What a great comment!!! Love it! You hit the nail right on the head there brother!

All of that being said, the original question was what mic competes with the U87 for vocals...

Right now, I have a Blue Bottle in for evaluation, and I am just loving it! It is a bit more than the U87 (new from Sweetwater = ~US$4,400), but man this thing is so danged awesome! Talk about rich and full??? Holy smokes, this thing rocks! Question is, "Will it fit into my mic cabinet?" :)

Obviously, it is not the mic for everything (tube-based), now is the U87, but I would have to say that the U87 is more of a Swiss-Army knife type of mic in that it can be used anywhere with pretty good success, kind of the like the old SM57. It may not be the *best* mic for a specific application, but it is pretty good everywhere.

1484 3rd June 2005 09:00 PM

I am going to compare the Kiwi to the U87ai hopefully this weekend. I have heard both but not at the same time. My memory tells me the U87ai has a little more richer low mid sound, while the Kiwi had a more open sound that was a little more even in sound.

I agree though the real test is how does the vocals sound in a mix, not A/B

NathanEldred 3rd June 2005 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelation
I am going to compare the Kiwi to the U87ai hopefully this weekend. I have heard both but not at the same time. My memory tells me the U87ai has a little more richer low mid sound, while the Kiwi had a more open sound that was a little more even in sound.

I agree though the real test is how does the vocals sound in a mix, not A/B


Looks like you had already compared both and made up your mind here?


http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ul...c&f=1&t=001298

midnightsun 4th June 2005 10:03 AM

A U89 and U87 are very similar. I prefer the U89. I had initially intended to buy the U87 but just for fun did a several hour shootout between the two. The U89 won my ear.

Adebar 4th June 2005 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightsun
A U89 and U87 are very similar. I prefer the U89. I had initially intended to buy the U87 but just for fun did a several hour shootout between the two. The U89 won my ear.

Also for me the U89 is the better one, but the old 87 is not bad too - for certain instruments. I find the U89 has more detail and is more exact and has at the same time smoother highs.

You need really good preamps for the U89 to realize this qualities compared to a U87.

Jim Williams 4th June 2005 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightsun
A U89 and U87 are very similar. I prefer the U89. I had initially intended to buy the U87 but just for fun did a several hour shootout between the two. The U89 won my ear.

Contrair... I hear no similarities between these two. The 87 capsule is so different, it is smaller with no center screw, has great low end that the 87 capsule rolls off. It also doesn't have those mid bumps the 87 is known for.

Then the circuit is different, the 87 is a one fet design with lots of feedback to keep the distortion down a bit. The 89 is a discrete opamp design similar to the fet 47.

I think the 89 is Neumann's finest effort in the last 25 years. Cleaned up it is a wonderful sound, although not neutral.

I also consider the 87 one of the worst vocal mics, like singing into a megaphone. I do believe it's one of the best choices for voice over work.

So, to me, talk to the hand... just don't sing!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

erwinor 4th June 2005 10:44 PM

HTML Code:

..........., like singing into a megaphone
that's what i heard when I tested a couple of years ago against a Milab-Beyer-Akg.

No bottom and highs,just mids.
When in another studio I recorded a male vocal thru a U 87 neve preamp it was like
s**t.
Then I put a M 149 and.....that was THE sound!Open and airy.

I wonder why some people would "kill" for a u 87.

Cheers

Lagerfeldt 5th June 2005 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I think the 89 is Neumann's finest effort in the last 25 years. Cleaned up it is a wonderful sound, although not neutral.

I also consider the 87 one of the worst vocal mics, like singing into a megaphone. I do believe it's one of the best choices for voice over work.

Interesting. After a shoot out I can definitely say I prefer also the U89 with some light eq instead of the U87. I use the U89 with a Great River ME-1NV preamp, it sounds way, way better than any other mic I've used. I even prefer the U89 on voiceover compared to the U87 (doesn't control sibilants as well as the U89).

Jim Williams 5th June 2005 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck
The U87ai is a fantastic sounding mic. The mid range is done just right IMO. I can't help but suspect that the people who dog it have an ulterior motive, are just repeating what they've heard, or heard some beat up, dropped, smoke filled, and spit on POS.


Robert

Sorry. I've worked on dozens of them. New to crusty, they all have the same problem. The newer AI model is an improvement with the higher polarization voltage and greater sensitivity. No ulterior motives here, I work on 87's and 89's.

Doesn't matter to me which mic you want to improve. Or not.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

erwinor 5th June 2005 05:13 PM

HTML Code:

[QUOTE=RobertPhilbeck]The U87ai is a fantastic sounding mic.
This is the first time I have ever heard (or read) someone say that.

HTML Code:

I can't help but suspect that the people who dog it have an ulterior motive, are just repeating what they've heard, or heard some beat up, dropped, smoke filled, and spit on POS.
Come on man there is no motive.Its just opinions as yours.
You say its fantastic.Others say its good, no good,bad e.t.c

peace

erwinor 5th June 2005 05:55 PM

DON'T be ironical.hjghfgg

You don't help like that

joaquin 5th June 2005 06:24 PM

Sorry Yiannis, but for real, the U87 it's a classic with a lot of history to support it. I also cant believe that you never heard some one say "The U87ai is a fantastic sounding mic"...........................I'll say it for you one more time : The U87ai is a fantastic sounding mic kfhkh

erwinor 5th June 2005 06:33 PM

I know that it is a classic mic dude but I just said that I have never heard someone saying that it is a "fantastic sounding mic"

fantastic sounding mic mean's that its THE mic, but I don't think that a lot of people are happy with the results on vocals!!

am I wrong guys?

To make it more clear I am not AGAINST Neuman! tutt
I do like a lot M 149-km84-184-Tlm 103.

C.Lambrechts 5th June 2005 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yiannis
fantastic sounding mic mean's that its THE mic, but I don't think that a lot of people are happy with the results on vocals!!

.


THE mic doesn't exist ... never has never will cellfone

bassmac 5th June 2005 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yiannis
I know that it is a classic mic dude...

What's classic is people from Greece saying “dude”. heh

erwinor 5th June 2005 06:56 PM

HTML Code:

THE mic doesn't exist ... never has never will
Agree with that! kfhkh
Neither the FANTASTIC. shiee

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmac
What's classic is people from Greece saying “dude”. heh

I am just trying to be friendly. freshflowe

midnightsun 5th June 2005 08:25 PM

This thread has become a pissing contests for some--
"oh ya, my dad can beat up your dad!"
"the sunrise is more beautiful than the sunset"
"by God an americano is better than a freshly brewed cup of coffee"

I enjoy reading everybodies personal experiences with gear but cringe when "bickering" finds its way into the forum.

Jim Williams 6th June 2005 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
THE mic doesn't exist ... never has never will cellfone

Hmmm... I have seen "the" mics, but that's a brand, not a description.

We may not be there yet but that shouldn't keep us from trying.

Design on.....


Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

1484 6th June 2005 09:20 PM

Chewbaca prefers BLUE's Kiwi http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/...ngular_ad.html

Musiclab 6th June 2005 09:44 PM

I have a U87 a U195 and a Peluso 2247. The Peluso regularly beats out the U87
and the U195.

perky b 7th June 2005 12:17 AM

U87
 
I have two great-sounding U47's in my studio and a U87 and a U89. For vocals the 47's usually win- but the other day I wasn't liking what I heard and the 87 kicked the 47's butt- it is also sometimes a great guitar mic- they are all good for something at some point- I know a guy who makes consistently awesome-sounding records and the 87 is his favorite for most things- and his records sound as good as records can sound to my ears.

Like the dude (from Greece?) said- there ain't no holy grail- they are like hammers or staplers- not like other-worldly absolutes- one mang's opinion. peachh

Dcatbeach3 25th November 2005 01:19 AM

U87 VS The singer!!
 
Here is my opinion you might not agree but who on here does. After just a few yrs of mixing (22) I have found the U87 to be quite good on alot of applications, vocals included, the high spl handling is great for rock vocals. But some singers and some mics just dont sound good together.
Even Neumann's own TLM 193 gives good results on a mid range tonned singer.
The main thing I strive to do is have as many mics in the cupboard as possible, and try them out on the vocalist till you find the one that works for the singers tone , AKG C-414 is another example of a mic in a lower price range that works a treat.

The Telefunken U 47M (Long Body / VF14) is one of my favorite mics to work with on vocal hands down, (but they are a different budget and ball game all together. Good enough for Frank Sinatra good enough for me.)

SoZo 25th November 2005 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab
I have a U87 a U195 and a Peluso 2247. The Peluso regularly beats out the U87
and the U195.


Is that the LE model? How are they?




-----------------

DaveH 26th November 2005 12:03 AM

Very interested in the answer to the original post.
 
I’ve gotten a lot of good info from “gearslutz” but this kind of
thread really confuses me.

I thought the original post was asking about the new U87 Ai the one that
is still made. But many responses only talk about the U87, or the U87 compared
to something else. To me U87 means “vintage not made anymore”.

OR is U87 being used interchangeably with U87 Ai, (which is confusing). confoosed

I am also very interest in the answer to the original post. heh

U 87 Ai vs ???
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yiannis
What mic do you think could contend a U 87 AI for vocals?
Yiannis

So far I’ve read the following that were compared to the U87 Ai:

Soundelux U195,
Soundelux iFET7,
Kiwi, peachh