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-   -   How do you record howling wind sound? (https://gearspace.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/1336305-how-do-you-record-howling-wind-sound.html)

singaiya 20th December 2020 08:10 PM

How do you record howling wind sound?
 
For an animated video project I'm working on, I want to have howling wind sounds. In my area, there can occasionally be very high wind, but of course when I try to record it the wind directly on the mic has the terrible low frequency wind noise. Do I just need to find a sheltered spot, or buy a dead cat type of product?

The ideal type of wind sound would be something like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT5f1jBJHng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGkh1W5cbH4

How do you think these clips were recorded?

elegentdrum 20th December 2020 08:29 PM

Get the mic in an area that does not have wind so that you can record the wind.

It's just like filming in the rain. You don't want rain on the lens, but you want to see the rain in the lens.

Some mic's are better than others for this. Foam will be helpful.

singaiya 20th December 2020 08:44 PM

Thanks. It really is that simple.

studer58 21st December 2020 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegentdrum (Post 15182458)
Get the mic in an area that does not have wind so that you can record the wind.

It's just like filming in the rain. You don't want rain on the lens, but you want to see the rain in the lens.

Some mic's are better than others for this. Foam will be helpful.

kfhkh. You nailed it ! Need to be simultaneously exposed to it and sheltered from it...and if you're enclosed in any kind of space consider the effect of that enclosure (eg echoes, reflections) upon the capture.

You're also nudging into the realm of foley capture...where you may have to actively work in tangential ways to capture a natural sounding result from unnatural, artificial origins. Research how the film industry does this, it's a rich and diverse discipline unto itself, with much to offer what you intend to convey without reinventing the wheel. The 'simple, natural and obvious way' of capturing such sounds may not necessarily give you the results you seek.

Rolo 46 21st December 2020 11:21 AM

Good RF SDC in full Rycote and furry jammer is a start.
Find a hedge or a tall tree that howls and get in a sheltered position low on the ground and roll tape.
Its easy.
I love stereo wind in trees and have done it all over the world, its very atmospheric, especially now with no leaves on deciduous trees in the Northern Hemisphere.
My favourite ,tall beeches, wet and shimmering in an Atlantic gale, especially with Rooks circling.

woylie 21st December 2020 11:33 AM

An alternative to recording is to fake it with a plugin that does wind-like sounds (e.g. this one that just came out: https://www.airwindows.com/darknoise/) or to use samples e.g. https://freetousesounds.bandcamp.com...rcraft-iceland

jimjazzdad 21st December 2020 12:34 PM

Hire a good Foley artist...

Rolo 46 21st December 2020 02:44 PM

Ive just been out on my E Bike in a gusty rainstorm blowing across the Cotswold hills
Every tree had a different sonic signature
The best by far a tall copse of majestic beeches.
The bigger the tree the lower the fundamental howl, no Foley bloke could replicate that Jim, they always use a crappy 'artic' blast....

singaiya 22nd December 2020 12:43 AM

Thanks for all these suggestions. It looks like buying a good RF mic and Rycote is out of reach for now - I didn't realize how expensive that would be. But I'll see if I can manage to block the direct wind better. And will look into any foley tips I can find, as well as using samples if all else fails. @ Rolo 46 , do you have any of your wind recordings you can link?

kwassen 22nd December 2020 09:04 AM

You could try this:

https://tonsturm.com/software/windmaschine/

norfolksoundman9 22nd December 2020 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15184761)
Thanks for all these suggestions. It looks like buying a good RF mic and Rycote is out of reach for now - I didn't realize how expensive that would be.

While an RF mic (like the MKHs) is the most robust choice, you don't need one (or two) specifically for recording howling wind: so don't let that very high cost put you off recording wind for real outside, which is undoubtedly the best option.

Any pair of SDCs or, even, LDCs would work, although SDCs are far more robust for outdoor use and much easier/cheaper to protect from the wind: and of SDCs, omni mics are the most naturally resistant to wind effects direct on the diaphragms. What mics do you have already to hand?

You certainly do need decent wind protection. There are plenty of examples of DIY windjammers on the internet made for peanuts, but if this beyond you then the Rode blimp is a modest outlay. As I have posted before, a set up with a pair of omni mics end-to-end in a Rode blimp is a very effective and affordable stereo set up for use in the windiest conditions: see post 10 at Flexibility in Stereo Mic Wind Reduction?

This particular example used Rode NT55s with the omni caps, but there are plenty of more affordable SDC omni mics if you don't have a pair already.

Cheers,

Roland

esldude 22nd December 2020 09:24 AM

Yes the microphones must be out of the wind.

I've had good luck near poles in wind. Also found I could put up 1 inch pvc with ends open. Put them up near vertical to wind, and tilt slightly. At some point you'll get the effect of blowing across the open end of a beer bottle at lower frequency. From there you can play with varying speed of playback to create howling if you get a good steady wind sound from it.

Or instead of playing junior foley assistant hire the real deal as already mentioned.

Rolo 46 22nd December 2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15184761)
Thanks for all these suggestions. It looks like buying a good RF mic and Rycote is out of reach for now - I didn't realize how expensive that would be. But I'll see if I can manage to block the direct wind better. And will look into any foley tips I can find, as well as using samples if all else fails. @ Rolo 46 , do you have any of your wind recordings you can link?

You don't have to buy ,just rent.
My numerous wild tracks possibly reside in the BBC Natural History Library and on BBC FX CDs.
When working on any film I always recorded them.
For a while in the 90s I recorded to MiniDisc, it was very convenient, in the front pocket of my SQN mixer, however when I listened to them they all sounded the same, the codec for MD seemed to hate white noise and rendered it with a strange suck out, I did some recently on an IPhone with similar results.
Always use the best device you can, and the best mics, then you cannot fault the technology.
The rest is up to your ingenuity.
Best of luck.

Roger

profondo 22nd December 2020 11:09 AM

You can certainly do this in a quiet room without additional equipment. When it is windy outside you can try to open a door or a window just a bit and let the wind howl through the small opening from a downwind position. You can even play with the size of the opening to alter the sound.

kludgeaudio 22nd December 2020 01:56 PM

Nobody yet has pointed out that an omni is much less sensitive to internal noise from wind than a directional microphone; the more directional it is, the more it's a problem. Try the smallest omni in the box, foam and listen.
--scott

hbphotoav 22nd December 2020 03:35 PM

"Smallest decent omni" would be a DPA4060/61, it seems to me. I've never tried to capture "the wind", but I've never been let down by my 4061 pair. From "discrete main AB pair" to inside a lid-down Steinway to mere lavaliere placement... they work.

Interesting thread!

HB

Rolo 46 22nd December 2020 06:42 PM

I had a pair of DPA 4060 with medium foam gags on the arms of my HD25 cans, they survived hi humidity etc
Worked well but still blasted in gusty wind
They were good in a small Rycote blimp, I had one for MKH 406 with a windcover
Not as good as a MS pair 50/30 though

norfolksoundman9 23rd December 2020 12:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kludgeaudio (Post 15185670)
Nobody yet has pointed out that an omni is much less sensitive to internal noise from wind than a directional microphone

Erm, I did post about this advantage of omnis in post #11 Scott!

In terms of lav mics, like Roger says, the designed wind projection (which includes the furries for them) doesn't perform like a full blimp: OK, you could stick DPA 4060s in a full blimp, but that would rather defeat the size advantage! As I said, if the OP has a modest budget (and doesn't want to/can't rent), then a pair of modestly-priced SDC omni mics end-to-end in a Rode blimp is a robust, portable and very wind-proof setup: even getting out of the teeth of a howling gale (close to the ground, or in the lee of an object) usually still leaves a fair bit of wind swirling around to contend with so for this exercise I wouldn't advise anything but a full blimp. In the pic below, I use a pair of NT55 mics with the NT45-O capsules: a cheaper omni option would be the Line Audio OM1.

Cheers,

Roland

singaiya 23rd December 2020 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolo 46 (Post 15185466)
You don't have to buy ,just rent.

Great suggestion! Might go rental if my other low cost attempts don't pan out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 (Post 15185370)
What mics do you have already to hand?

You certainly do need decent wind protection. There are plenty of examples of DIY windjammers on the internet made for peanuts, but if this beyond you then the Rode blimp is a modest outlay. As I have posted before, a set up with a pair of omni mics end-to-end in a Rode blimp is a very effective and affordable stereo set up for use in the windiest conditions: see post 10 at Flexibility in Stereo Mic Wind Reduction?

This particular example used Rode NT55s with the omni caps, but there are plenty of more affordable SDC omni mics if you don't have a pair already.

Mostly I have mics more suited to a project studio (LDCs like CAD M179, 3U Audio Teal, various dynamics) but I do have an Edirol R-09HR as well as a pair of Little Blondies which are omni SDC. I tried the Little Blondies once as drum overheads, didn't like them, and put them in a drawer. But I'll give them a shot as well as the Edirol.

I do like the idea of a good stereo spread in a blimp though and I'm sure it would get me better results. Your spaced omni recordings sound really good. I'd also like to try mid side but it seems like not many options out there for figure 8 SDCs.

Anyway, thanks for all the info!

norfolksoundman9 23rd December 2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15186872)
Mostly I have mics more suited to a project studio (LDCs like CAD M179, 3U Audio Teal, various dynamics) but I do have an Edirol R-09HR as well as a pair of Little Blondies which are omni SDC.

The Little Blondies have very high self noise, akin to lav mics, which rules them out for most nature/ambience recording. But for a howling wind this shouldn't matter, so give them a whirl! All you need is a Rode blimp: you can probably get a used Mk1 version cheaply, and the Marantz ZP-1 is a dead-ringer for this model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15186872)
I'd also like to try mid side but it seems like not many options out there for figure 8 SDCs.

Indeed. The MKH30 is superb, but seemingly out of your price bracket (unless rented). Cheaper options - such as the AKG CK94 - are still not that cheap, and have high self noise: OK, not an issue for recording a gale, but not so useful for other things.

You could go cardioid SDC and use ORTF, NOS etc., but decent wind protection becomes more of an issue/expensive, which sounds like it might be an issue for you. For budget recording of a gale, I'd definitely stick with an omni pair in a single large blimp: indeed, regardless of budget (e.g. if renting), I'd stick with this unless I really needed directionality.

Cheers,

Roland

jimjazzdad 23rd December 2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15186872)
... I'd also like to try mid side but it seems like not many options out there for figure 8 SDCs...

There is a SDC Fig 8 from B9Audio at around $800 USD...haven't tried it personally, but there are several posts about it here and I believe (Doug) Tourtelot has tried one.

singaiya 23rd December 2020 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 (Post 15187391)
The Little Blondies have very high self noise, akin to lav mics, which rules them out for most nature/ambience recording. But for a howling wind this shouldn't matter, so give them a whirl! All you need is a Rode blimp: you can probably get a used Mk1 version cheaply, and the Marantz ZP-1 is a dead-ringer for this model.



Indeed. The MKH30 is superb, but seemingly out of your price bracket (unless rented). Cheaper options - such as the AKG CK94 - are still not that cheap, and have high self noise: OK, not an issue for recording a gale, but not so useful for other things.

You could go cardioid SDC and use ORTF, NOS etc., but decent wind protection becomes more of an issue/expensive, which sounds like it might be an issue for you. For budget recording of a gale, I'd definitely stick with an omni pair in a single large blimp: indeed, regardless of budget (e.g. if renting), I'd stick with this unless I really needed directionality.

Cheers,

Roland

I realize I never mentioned budget - but I should have. When I first posted the question I didn't have a concept of what it might take to get decent results, so I had no framework for a budget. As this is a personal project and I'm amateur and not pro, anything I spend must be reasonable and I didn't plan on spending a lot. And I'm grateful that pros are on here helping me out! I guess this is what I can spend a $600 stimulus check on.;) And it would be nice if whatever I buy could be useful for other scenarios besides wind.

Maybe $100-150 for used Rode blimp plus $250 for a pair of Line Audio OM1s would get something decent that could have some versatility?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjazzdad (Post 15187626)
There is a SDC Fig 8 from B9Audio at around $800 USD...haven't tried it personally, but there are several posts about it here and I believe (Doug) Tourtelot has tried one.

Nice. I also just found that there's a Shure Beta 181/BI which is a fig 8 SDC at $500. Noise is listed at 23 dB A-weighted - though I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little.

kludgeaudio 23rd December 2020 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singaiya (Post 15188109)
I realize I never mentioned budget - but I should have. When I first posted the question I didn't have a concept of what it might take to get decent results, so I had no framework for a budget. As this is a personal project and I'm amateur and not pro, anything I spend must be reasonable and I didn't plan on spending a lot. And I'm grateful that pros are on here helping me out! I guess this is what I can spend a $600 stimulus check on.;) And it would be nice if whatever I buy could be useful for other scenarios besides wind.

Well, first try it with what you've got. Then work up.

But I'll say that a fuzzy blimp is well worth having and you will need it for something else someday, probably soon.

I'll also say that the Olson (WindTech) US-1 is pretty amazingly good, not as good as a real blimp but inexpensive and I always have a bunch of them with me at any outdoor gigs.
--scott

TVPostSound 24th December 2020 05:47 PM

https://www.sounddogs.com/search?keywords=wind
$5 and be done with it!!

dogmusic 25th December 2020 06:27 PM

For a RODE cheaper alternative, anyone here tried the Micolive Microphone Windshield Blimp?

https://www.amazon.com/Microphone-Wi...ct_top?ie=UTF8

johnsound 31st December 2020 01:08 PM

Or there's always this:

https://www.asoundeffect.com/sound-l...touch-of-wind/

All the best,

John

AngelaPooleG3D9p 1st June 2022 10:39 PM

Wind in all its forms and manifestations is detrimental to the quality of the recording. It can be an additional challenge to the creative process for filmmakers who often work in windy environments. But there are some ways to reduce wind noise when recording outdoors. Most are inexpensive, easy to use, and effective. Frankly, even the best microphones sound bad with strong vibrations from any source, whether a vocalist is singing with a gasp or unstable weather. Five years ago, I got into filmmaking. I'm doing one film to date, and I'm used to riding my electric bike to the set as it's a sport and a benefit for me. One day on the way home, I was slightly hit by a car, but there was no major damage. After that incident, I decided to insure the bike with https://simplebikeinsurance.com/6-essential-post-cycl...

studer58 2nd June 2022 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelaPooleG3D9p (Post 16024774)
Wind in all its forms and manifestations is detrimental to the quality of the recording. It can be an additional challenge to the creative process for filmmakers who often work in windy environments. But there are some ways to reduce wind noise when recording outdoors.

That’s what this whole thread is about ! The original poster is wanting to capture the sonic signature of rapid howling wind …without the low frequency buffeting which tends to overload the mic capsule output. This discussion is about negotiating a technique that works between these parameters…and several good suggestions have already been made.

M50k 2nd June 2022 05:30 AM

You might get some ideas here:

http://www.mediaandmarketing.com/13W...S.Twister.html

singaiya 2nd June 2022 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M50k (Post 16025271)

I really like that truck idea! Thanks for sharing that.