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Dual Direction Translating Speakers?
Old 28th January 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 
RBillia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dual Direction Translating Speakers?

Hello All,

I know there are have been a plethora of discussions regarding monitors, proper placement, calibration, etc. But I am wondering if there is any insight into what I will call "Dual Direction Translating Speakers?" With the proliferation of VOD, Netflix, Hulu, MUBI, etc, it is becoming more and more likely that a large number of projects we will be working on will spend considerable time in the world of streaming video. A lot of filmmakers don't create films with that intention (though some do). For those of us working a lot in the "indie" filmmaking world, it would be ideal to create mixes that will translate both to the cinema and home theatre experience. I know that on large studio films, there are often multiple mixes that occur, theatrical, DVD/Blu-Ray, now Atmos, etc. but for the projects that don't have the luxury and budget for multiple mixes, it would be nice to know that the festival theatrical mix I did, will translate well when it is picked up for a run on MUBI (a recent experience and one that is prompting this question).

In a previous post discussion about JBL 6328s (a speaker that I am currently considering upgrading too or maybe the 6332), Marti, "Dr. Sound," mentioned that they translated well in both directions:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-...s-awesome.html

This was such an interesting point it got me thinking. For so long I dreamed of building a decent sized dub stage with a 7.1 horn based monitor system, but I am concerned that "theatrical" mixes might be a limiting offer in the current state of affairs. I even contacted Meyer to discuss those as an option, but for the cost, is it really worth the investment (a rhetorical questions for sure, no one can ever answer that for anyone else).

So I would love to hear some thoughts on this, both in regards to monitors choices, room sizes, and other technical opinions, but also opinions on the direction film mixing is going. I know these thoughts have appeared in other posts and I apologize if there is redundancy, but still thought I would ask.

Thanks all!

Best,
Old 28th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
nzl62's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Not sure this is much of an issue. As many have posted in tons of different contexts - a good mix translates. I have seen the same movie in a number of different situations, streamed, on a plan in the cinema off blue ray and on my iPhone and good mixes work.
Old 29th January 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
+1

I learned a long time ago: if you have good monitors and know what you're listening to, mixes will translate any way you want.

I'd surprise clients (which is never difficult) by telling them exactly what they'd hear when we switched to Auratones or low-level mono, why that was so, and why I'd already made the decision to sacrifice specific elements as the playback medium got worse.

(Likewise, when the clients weren't in the room, I never bothered with the Auratones or NS10s. Stuff still sounded exactly like I expected when I heard it on the air.)
Old 29th January 2013
  #4
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danijel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'll agree that 'downward' translation is almost never a problem if you know what you're doing. You lose the bottom octaves as the speakers get smaller, and you lose high end as they get crappier, which actually makes the dialogue pop out in relation to other elements of mix. The only instances where you really need to check the translation is if you're doing some creative EQ-ing, like boosting the sh*t out of low frequencies, or basing a dramatic effect on just sub frequencies. If you (or the director) really want that kind of effect, be warned (and warn him) that it will NOT translate, and you should do a separate mix for TV/web.

That said, until you get the feel and confidence that Jay is speaking about, you should just get any pair of small speakers and switch back and forth until you're able to anticipate the effect in your head.
Old 29th January 2013
  #5
Gear Nut
 
RBillia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks everyone for their comments. I understand the principle of referencing on small speakers (I have both Auratones and Sony Computer speakers as alternates and I check mixes on them constantly and direct input into my laptop if necessary), and the importance of "knowing" your monitors more than selecting the "best" ones...was just speaking about this with our intern as he was asking which monitors he should buy. I was most interested in people's experience going from horn based monitors on dubbing stages (e.g. QSC, Meyer Acherons, JBL 3722/4722, etc.) and seeing how their mixes translate to home viewing (streaming on home theatre systems, computer monitors, etc.). There are many discussions about what speakers translate well from pre-mixing to the dubstage (JBL, HD-1, etc.) and I was wondering about the other way around. It was a comment about the JBL 6328 - that they translated well up and down - that got me thinking. I have heard mixes in cinemas and then on my laptop, and screened a doc in a theatre here in NYC and then watched it broadcast a few weeks later and they seem to sound as I had hoped, but I wasn't mixing on a dubstage and I mostly mix for TV. It seems that "downward" translation isn't much of a problem, it just comes down to solid, balanced mixes and experience. Thanks very much.

Best,
Old 30th January 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
The only instances where you really need to check the translation is if you're doing some creative EQ-ing, like boosting the sh*t out of low frequencies...
...and that's also the one time, in our kind of mixing, that you reach for MaxBass or any of its clones: when you want to add a lot of bass and still have it translate to bass-poor speakers, without distorting on good ones. IMHO.
Old 31st January 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
nzl62's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
One tip would be to get a good monitor controller
I bought a Martinsound Mulitmax off ebay for about 600 bucks. Whilst this doesn't directly address the original question, what it does do is facilitate large, near and mono monitoring as well as optional alt setups for say domestic 5.1 setup. For such a small amount of money it offers impressive features inc internal down mix etc. There will be higher quality digital devices out there but It was well worth the punt.
My setup is actually two pairs of stereo near fields and a mono ****box
My mid term plan is to go into a bigger space at which time I will look to being able to afford the JBL 6328 setup - the monitor controller has future proofed that as well as ensuring consistent monitor levels. Check them out
Old 31st January 2013
  #8
Gear Nut
 
RBillia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
$600 is a pretty amazing deal (gotta love ebay once in a while). I had a Multimax at the last studio I was in and it was a great. I currently have a Grace m906 which is a fantastic box and worth the investment (though amazingly doesn't have a mixdown feature except to mono). I agree that proper monitoring with calibration ability is key.
Old 31st January 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
nzl62's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Mine doesn't have the remote but still..... 600
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Murasamee's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBillia ➡️
$600 is a pretty amazing deal (gotta love ebay once in a while). I had a Multimax at the last studio I was in and it was a great. I currently have a Grace m906 which is a fantastic box and worth the investment (though amazingly doesn't have a mixdown feature except to mono). I agree that proper monitoring with calibration ability is key.
Grace actually sells the m906 with a downmix option. Costs an extra few hundred bucks, but the calibration options are great.
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