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Waves NS1
Old 13th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Waves NS1

I was very surprised to find this in my Inbox a few minutes ago:
Automatic Noise Suppression Plugin – NS1 | Waves

Definitely checking it out!

I own a Cedar and don't expect the NS1 to retire it, but still interested in what this simplified version of WNS is capable of...

Anyone tried it yet?
Old 13th September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
pethenis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm guessing this won't be in the DNS One category. Their own Waves WNS is 4x more expensive than the NS1, so this IS probably a dumbed down version of WNS.
Old 13th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pethenis ➑️
I'm guessing this won't be in the DNS One category. Their own Waves WNS is 4x more expensive than the NS1, so this IS probably a dumbed down version of WNS.
Hmm single fader. The WNS has 6 (I think) and still sounds crap.
Old 13th September 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe ➑️
Hmm single fader. The WNS has 6 (I think) and still sounds crap.
Agreed! You'll have to pry my dns one from my cold dead hands

It's only 99 dollars. Wow that's a he'll of a lot cheaper than the cedar.
Old 13th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe ➑️
Hmm single fader. The WNS has 6 (I think) and still sounds crap.
wow- I think a good deal of pretty prominent mixers would disagree with you on that-


I think its a pretty useful tool as well.
Old 13th September 2012
  #6
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BIGBANGBUZZ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The combo of w43 and wns can do a decent job.

Sent from my GT-N7000
Old 13th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
wow- I think a good deal of pretty prominent mixers would disagree with you on that-


I think its a pretty useful tool as well.
Guess I'm used to the DNS ONE.
Old 13th September 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've tried to use the wns. Trust me i wanted to love it. It was 1/10th the price but Its not even in the same league as the cedar. It's not the same thing at all and any mixer that thinks the wns is passable for a cedar really sound try out the cedar for a few weeks.
Old 13th September 2012
  #9
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jahtao's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I haven't tried any of them : /

I think of them as being multiband dynamics processors. Am I wrong? The website descriptions don't tell you much.

I've always had a hard time imagining them working better than other forms of noise reduction. I'm probably missing something / everything!

Matt
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahtao ➑️
I haven't tried any of them : /

I think of them as being multiband dynamics processors. Am I wrong? The website descriptions don't tell you much.

I've always had a hard time imagining them working better than other forms of noise reduction. I'm probably missing something / everything!

Matt
they use noise reduction algorithms which multiband dynamics don't (not sure about Cat43/W43 though)
Old 14th September 2012
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Has anyone actually tried NS-1? Im curious to know how it actually sounds. Maybe it's really good? Maybe it's awful? I'm definitely demoing it tonight.
Old 14th September 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Smallbudgetguru's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
wow- I think a good deal of pretty prominent mixers would disagree with you on that-


I think its a pretty useful tool as well.
Yes in fact I was told by a top chief mixer at an internationally respected facility most rooms there use WNS and not CEDAR. They do have a cedar.

but the rates and budgets in Canada aren't like the ones in The USA and that thing is not cheap. big rooms will have it, but it really depends on the content and what can be done with different tools too.

Though the most important thing I learned from him is: there is no "way to do things" they are all tools as long as you and your clients are happy with the result.

I haven't heard the waves c43 or this one band plug yet either. I own WNS and Izotope, I do "want" a cedar.
Old 14th September 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
We have WNS in all our rooms. It's great for the price and has certainly been a saviour on more than one occasion!
Old 14th September 2012
  #14
Gear Nut
 
MixMasterM's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
WNS isn't crap. It's a great tool when used well. It's also reasonably priced. I use a Cedar when I work on large mix stages, but in my home studio I use a combination of WNS and Izotope RX. All of these noise reduction tools are useful when used appropriately. Of course, if I had to pick one, I'd go for the cedar, but I can't justify the cost to buy one for my home studio. I've mixed several projects using only WNS for NR, and they have turned out great. The difference between all of these tools and the Waves NS1 however, is that Cedar, WNS and Izotope all have multiple parameters that can be adjusted in varying degrees to find the right touch of NR for a particular scene..that being said, too much Noise reduction, even on a Cedar sucks the life out of dialogue and sounds crappy.
Anyways, regarding the NS1. It has 1 fader, which to me, feels like it would probably utilize NR algorithms that are too broad for any kind of detail work. However, I haven't used it...so I can't say that it doesn't do an ok job for its price point. Maybe it's a good tool for micro budget projects....there's certainly a lot of those around these days.
Old 14th September 2012
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Mr. Wilson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Waves video demo is a joke as there's just a hint of airy noise behind the VO...nothing like the real grungy broadband and constantly changing noise you get when a scene is shot on the streets of a major city...Los Angeles in our case. THe WNS and RX stuff along with Cedar if you have access to it are the power tools these days. I simply can't imagine a single fader/algo dealing with major NR and still sound good. We've all tried the "solutions" that have failed in the past.
Old 14th September 2012
  #16
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Airon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I wonder how much CPU drain a plugin version of Izotope's own automatic-noise-profiling hardware would be. That is the biggest things I've heard next to Cedar in the last ten years.

Had good experiences with WNS. It's always good for a 3dB dip when I need it and more if the material is suitable, so I can't knock it.

Can't demo stuff right now. Let's hear some verdicts and don't forget to provide details on the stuff you're trying to push down.
Old 14th September 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've decided to demo NS1 myself so here's a quick review:

Point No. 1: I'm definitely keeping my Cedar!

Point No. 2: To my ears it behaves like an automatic version of WNS in wide band mode - just as some have predicted. It leaves similar artifacts especially apparent on reverb tails and 'quiet bits'. WNS is significantly better (I actually seem to like WNS in certain situations despite owning a hardware Cedar) in that you can control each band independently whereas NS1 is stuck in wide band mode and can sometimes cause more problems than it solves.

Point No. 3: I can see it being useful in super fast scenarios where you need to quickly shave off a few dBs off a less than ideal VO that you've just received from another place that needs to get out the door in 10 minutes. For budget promos, commercials or what not. But not for proper denoising. I guess at $99 it's quite a good deal for that.

Point No. 4: If you have C4 you don't need it.

Point No. 5: If you have Izotope RX2 you might want to see if it might help in certain situations.

Point No. 6: Obviously, if you have WNS you should stop reading this thread.

This super quick review wouldn't be a review without some super quick samples. I've attached 5 clips @ 48kHz, 24-bit.
Sample 1: Original
Sample 2: NS1 fader set at 70
Sample 3: Q10 hi-passing at 100 Hz followed by NS1 set at 30
Sample 4: Q10 HP @ 100 Hz > C4
Sample 5: Q10 HP @ 100 Hz > C4 > C4

I've spent 15 seconds per sample. Perhaps even less than that.

That's about it from me. Hopefully someone will find this useful. I am saving $99 for something else and will sleep better tonight.

What are your thoughts?
Attached Files

Waves_NS1_Test_Original.wav (1.08 MB, 9960 views)

Waves_NS1_Test_NS1-70.wav (1.08 MB, 10053 views)

Waves_NS1_Test_Q10HP100Hz_NS1-30.wav (1.08 MB, 9879 views)

Waves_NS1_Test_Q10HP100_C4.wav (1.08 MB, 9730 views)

Waves_NS1_Test_Q10HP100_C4_C4.wav (1.08 MB, 9773 views)

Old 14th September 2012
  #18
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Branko's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A couple of years ago, I posted some comparison NR tests on DUC. Essentially, it was the same piece of audio processed, one with DNS, and the other WNS.
To me, both sounded extremely similar and in order to minimize my eventual errors in processing, I included the original as well.
Only 3 members of the whole DuC community posted their opinions, and the result was totally inconclusive, which means nobody could detect differences between these two plugins. Most guys that are bashing the WNS have probably never tried it.
Old 14th September 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Branko - I very much appreciate your comparison test! I almost purchased Waves WNS back then based on your results. I was lucky to grab a second hand Cedar at a hard-to-pass price so that's what I got in the end. I do agree that they sound very similar. But having used both quite extensively I'd say they sound 95% similar. But the remaining 5% are DNS's ability to smoothe out the gating envelope (hard to describe) - it is very subtle but when you compare the results the Cedar is always a slight notch above the WNS. Never the other way round. Especially in the low end. But I do like WNS and agree that it is 'almost Cedar'.
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
[QUOTE=Branko;8262570 Most guys that are bashing the WNS have probably never tried it.[/QUOTE]

Bashing waves has become very popular lately despite the fact their plugins still work perfectly fine (and yes before someone says it, there are better alternatives to some but many are still perfectly good)

My 2c, I tried it but to be honest, it does nothing that I can't do with Waves W43 and RX2 - it might find a niche for quick fix passes as Vytis says.

(I should also say that I mainly work on animation and only some live action so I'm not a hardcore NR user as some here would be)

My $99 may just head to IOSONO Anymix...
Old 14th September 2012
  #21
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I demoed it yesterday as well. I also found it to be less than ideal. It works ok except for the fact that it seems to be impossible to get rid of a small "noise tail" at the end of speech without completely obliterating the dialog sound. So you can remove most of the noise and preserve the dialog quality but still have this tail. or you can remove all noise and your dialog is ****.
Old 14th September 2012
  #22
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
What if you ride it around the dialog? That's the way I use a Cedar DNS or the old Dolby NR
Old 14th September 2012
  #23
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Airon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A comparison from the same original clip, this time worked over in about 1 minute with Izotope RX2.

The file is here: https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...1_test_rx2.wav

As you can hear I didn't eliminate everything since that would have the noise kinda flare up too harshly on the last line.

The result can probably be improved with the W43.


Riding the fader should be interesting. Anyone tried this flipped to an Icon fader yet ?
Old 14th September 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Good job Airon!

I think the next logical step for Waves is to release a plugin called NS10! I'd definitely be interested!
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Branko's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vytis ➑️
I'd say they sound 95% similar. But the remaining 5% are DNS's ability to smoothe out the gating envelope (hard to describe) - it is very subtle but when you compare the results the Cedar is always a slight notch above the WNS. Never the other way round. Especially in the low end.
I agree. The difference is small, but the Cedar's got the edge.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
wow- I think a good deal of pretty prominent mixers would disagree with you on that-


I think its a pretty useful tool as well.
Agreed. I used it on all my DX tracks on a feature I just finished. Different algorithms in different plug-ins produce different results.

For e.g, I found RX2 useless in some situations, whereas the WNS far surpassed it.

Each to their own I guess
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe ➑️
Hmm single fader. The WNS has 6 (I think) and still sounds crap.
I agree. In spite of prominent mixers disagreeing.
WNS still has too much artifacting when using it in pretty extreme cases, whereas CEDAR doesn't.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #28
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Animation ➑️
Bashing waves has become very popular lately despite the fact their plugins still work perfectly fine (and yes before someone says it, there are better alternatives to some but many are still perfectly good)
.
Getting rid of all,waves plugins in my DX chain was the best decision I ever made.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
Getting rid of all,waves plugins in my DX chain was the best decision I ever made.
To each his own, as I said, I'm not claiming they are the best in the business but anyway, I'm not starting another Waves vs ... argument as its old ground stomped many a time
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
I agree. In spite of prominent mixers disagreeing.
WNS still has too much artifacting when using it in pretty extreme cases, whereas CEDAR doesn't.
I also find it's not a smooth and has a more noticeable affect on the higher frequencies than CEDAR. But, this is just my opinion.

And yes, I have used both extensively and I am not a Waves basher, they make some of my favourite plug-ins.
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