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Agent Orange 2.0
Old 13th June 2012
  #1
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Agent Orange 2.0

Just a brief announcement:

After Pro Tools 10.2 rolled out, I started to get some emails from people saying my now-four-year-old version 1.6 code wasn't working. I took a look at the new exports and have made the necessary tweaks.

Agent Orange 2.0

Awesome new feature, though: Pro Tools 10.2 now exports the mute state of clips on a track, so from now on, Agent Orange will not print muted regions.

Only took me six years to fix that one.
Old 13th June 2012
  #2
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JSt0rm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Oh that is your program?

Best program name evar!
Old 13th June 2012
  #3
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danijel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Jamie,

I've known about your Agent Orange for some years now, but never really understood how people integrate in into their workflows..... Who is usually using it - foley artists? dubbing mixers? Are they printing the hard copies and keeping them beside the computer screen, or switching between PT and pdf reader on-screen? What is the most common usage scenario?

Kudos for GPL-ing it.
Old 13th June 2012
  #4
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JSt0rm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ADR has a need for tons and tons of paper.
Old 13th June 2012 | Show parent
  #5
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm ➑️
ADR has a need for tons and tons of paper.
Agent Orange isn't for ADR cue sheets.
It's for printing out track cue sheets.
I personally think it makes The process of mixing slower in this day and age, when I can see all my audio onscreen.
Old 13th June 2012 | Show parent
  #6
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel ➑️
Jamie,

I've known about your Agent Orange for some years now, but never really understood how people integrate in into their workflows..... Who is usually using it - foley artists? dubbing mixers? Are they printing the hard copies and keeping them beside the computer screen, or switching between PT and pdf reader on-screen? What is the most common usage scenario?

Kudos for GPL-ing it.
Very few mixers use these kinds of cue sheets anymore -- a few of the very best do, however, particularly in LA. Also, some guys might not use cue sheets for their tracks but they'll have editorial make a binky or top sheet of their predubs, with one track for each predub. A lot of foley crews still use cuesheets too, it gives them a way of ticking off each cue as they finish it, and they're just more convenient for reading and discussing.

I always make sure there's a PDF somewhere of my laybacks, even if they don't get printed and the mixer never sees them. When you have 300 tracks of effects it's nice to have a way of seeing what's in all of your sessions without having to have a Pro Tools nearby and available, let alone one that can open your unit supersession.
Old 13th June 2012
  #7
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
True, they are great for foley crews.
I think as more and more directors understand the advantages of virtual mixing, needing these on the Dubstage will fall bybthe wayside altogether. I'm actually surprised that major movies are still using predubs.
Old 13th June 2012 | Show parent
  #8
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JSt0rm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
Agent Orange isn't for ADR cue sheets.
It's for printing out track cue sheets.
I personally think it makes The process of mixing slower in this day and age, when I can see all my audio onscreen.
interesting. Im sure Ive seen it used for this process. Is it not possible? Maybe it was something else then.

I cut sfx so what do I know
Old 14th June 2012
  #9
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celticrogues's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel ➑️
Jamie,

I've known about your Agent Orange for some years now, but never really understood how people integrate in into their workflows..... Who is usually using it - foley artists? dubbing mixers? Are they printing the hard copies and keeping them beside the computer screen, or switching between PT and pdf reader on-screen? What is the most common usage scenario?

Kudos for GPL-ing it.
I use it to generate cue sheets for a lot of my foley sessions, especially on bigger jobs where we really need to fly fast. I print out paper cue sheets with it. In these cases I'm mixing and my assistant is operating Pro Tools so it is really helpful to have the paper there as an organizational tool. We run Pro Tools in remote mode from a Soundmaster ATOM and so I can search the pages and type in the next cue while my assistant simultaneously searches Pro Tools and renames the track, which allows us to work really quickly. I also love it as a second way to check and make sure we recorded all of the cues, as sometimes we may roll over something in the session, or duplicate regions might get missed, so having the paper copy there to verify is really helpful.

I've been doing more and more smaller sessions lately though where I don't have the luxury of an assistant and in those cases I just fly Pro Tools without the paper, but I love the cue sheets when we have a 2 man team.

So iluvcapra thanks so much for the update - love your program!

-Mike
Old 14th June 2012 | Show parent
  #10
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
I'm actually surprised that major movies are still using predubs.
When we see the techs installing 192 channels of playback onto the mix stage, our first thought isn't "Great! Now we can cut as many tracks as we cut last year and pre dub virtually!" Our first thought is, actually, "Great! Now we can cut 500 units and have 32 predubs in the final!"

There's never enough FX units. Yet.

Also there's the context in LA of the best mixers being in a position to demand the sort of consoles they want, and uniformly not being in love with the Icon, either the surface itself, the ergonomics or the sort of tech support Avid offers (at least compared to what Neve or Harrison their clients). And while there have been some successes with all-virtual dubs -- like "The Hurt Locker" or anything Dr. Sound mixes, there have been a few high-profile disasters, even recently.
Old 14th June 2012 | Show parent
  #11
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra ➑️
When we see the techs installing 192 channels of playback onto the mix stage, our first thought isn't "Great! Now we can cut as many tracks as we cut last year and pre dub virtually!"

Our first thought is, actually, "Great! Now we can cut 500 units and have 32 predubs in the final!
Doing conforms, and detailed minor changes is sooooo much easier and faster when mixing virtual.
Old 14th June 2012 | Show parent
  #12
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
Doing conforms, and detailed minor changes is sooooo much easier and faster when mixing virtual.
If you say so.
Old 14th June 2012 | Show parent
  #13
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra ➑️
If you say so.
Having mixed traditionally, and now virtually, yes. That's what my experience tells me. Both on features and episodic TV.
And all things being equal, I can do a better mix in the same amounts of time, mixing virtual, than I can on a traditional console.

This is exponentially true for Mixing TV.
Old 14th June 2012
  #14
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PoxyMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've found that the Foley talent doesn't care so much about the cue sheets anymore, but I certainly do! I put dummy regions in my FOL session when I spot to generate the cue sheets, then record takes into playlists.

Having the cue sheets helps to keep me from missing stuff. Thanks so much iluvcapra! I officially threw away my Tape 1.5 usb key recently, after having it sit in the bottom of a desk drawer for like...a decade.
Old 14th June 2012 | Show parent
  #15
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoxyMusic ➑️
I've found that the Foley talent doesn't care so much about the cue sheets anymore, but I certainly do! I put dummy regions in my FOL session when I spot to generate the cue sheets, then record takes into playlists.

.
I know one of the sound supervisor iWork with does this as well.
Never seen anyone do that, but thought it was a clever idea.
Old 15th June 2012 | Show parent
  #16
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PoxyMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
I know one of the sound supervisor iWork with does this as well.
I make 5 playlists at the beginning of each session, then promote the keeper take when I'm editing. The hard part is remembering to switch back to playlist 1 when starting a new cue!
Old 15th June 2012 | Show parent
  #17
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra ➑️
.

Also there's the context in LA of the best mixers being in a position to demand the sort of consoles they want, and uniformly not being in love with the Icon, either the surface itself, the ergonomics or the sort of tech support Avid offers (at least compared to what Neve or Harrison their clients). And while there have been some successes with all-virtual dubs -- like "The Hurt Locker" or anything Dr. Sound mixes, there have been a few high-profile disasters, even recently.
Best is debatable. Yes, some if them are the best. But not all of them.
I have personally heard mixes done on million dollar consoles that are embarrassingly bad.
Not being able to do a great mix on an Icon is completely due to user inexperience using an Icon and pro-tools in general.
There are TV mixers who still can still barely use pro-tools, let alone mix on it, and need an assistant to do everything for them.
Completely unacceptable.

And as you said, Dr. Sound does feature mix upon virtual feature mix, without disasters.
I have mixed hundreds and hundreds of hours of program material doing virtual mixes, with zero problems or disasters. I know, for a fact, I can do a better job, faster. Do more fixes and changes in less time. And 99% of the time never go into overtime. Ever.
And what I see, is more and more producers and directors wondering how we can achieve the quality we do, in the time we have, without effort or drama.

And again. I speak from experience. I've worked on large format consoles. And I've worked on icons. I personally do not want to mix Film and TV on a traditional console ever again.
Old 16th June 2012 | Show parent
  #18
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
And as you said, Dr. Sound does feature mix upon virtual feature mix, without disasters.
There was that one time, but last time I brought it up he jumps on the thread and reminds me that we were only down for an hour, and that was the only time ever

I'm curious to see how the current project works out, he's on dialogue and the effects mixer is one of those people that still demands cue sheets and binkies for everything, and makes his pre dubs with bias paddles and a sharpie color coding regime that must not be changed.

Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black.
Old 16th June 2012 | Show parent
  #19
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra ➑️


I'm curious to see how the current project works out, he's on dialogue and the effects mixer is one of those people that still demands cue sheets and binkies for everything, and makes his pre dubs with bias paddles and a sharpie color coding regime that must not be changed.

Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black.

Wow, sounds brutal.
Old 16th June 2012 | Show parent
  #20
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dr.sound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra ➑️
There was that one time, but last time I brought it up he jumps on the thread and reminds me that we were only down for an hour, and that was the only time ever

I'm curious to see how the current project works out, he's on dialogue and the effects mixer is one of those people that still demands cue sheets and binkies for everything, and makes his pre dubs with bias paddles and a sharpie color coding regime that must not be changed.

Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black, Red-Blue-Orange-Green-Purple-Brown-Black.
Jamie,
You lost me..
Who's on Dialog? I'm not working with you on any project that I know of unless it's 6 months from now?
As for the lack of downtime on my stage... it's well documented.
Old 16th June 2012
  #21
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Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've really had pretty much zero downtime when mixing on stages with and in Pt's.
I had more downtime in one season of 13 episodesof a show we were mixing on a console at Sony, than I have ever had in the years I've been mixing virtual in PT's.
Old 18th June 2012
  #22
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Smallbudgetguru's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
I know one of the sound supervisor iWork with does this as well.
Never seen anyone do that, but thought it was a clever idea.
We make both Foley and ADR cues via markers in the session then export markers as midi, use EDimarker to convert to text and create cue sheets with numbers.
Old 18th June 2012
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Region groups all the way, track per character. Then exports session info as text and either create the sheets manually with Numbers/Filemaker or, with clever naming system with region names (using symbols to differentiate fields, like [actor initials] "cue" {reason to ADR}), import the text to ADR Manager to automatically get your cue sheets.
Old 19th June 2012
  #24
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soundboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you Jamie.
Old 5th August 2013
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
"Agent Orange was unable to recognize the file you provided for input. Agent Orange is only capable of reading text exports in the format used by Pro Tools. Make sure you are inputting the correct kind of file, and try again."

Well... I am indeed exporting a .txt file made in PT10.1.1 so it should be working right or have I missed something?
Old 5th August 2013
  #26
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ggegan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Many of the Foley artists I work with request PDF cue sheets a few days ahead of the first session. They like to use them to figure out which props they need that they don't already have and also to figure out a game plan and the overall scope of the job as well as whether the number of days booked is appropriate. They also can determine whether two people are needed for all the days or not.

Agent Orange does an excellent job. I don't really use it for anything other than Foley, but I use it just about every project. It's great for communicating exactly what my expectations are and for the Foley team to identify issues ahead of time.
Old 5th August 2013 | Show parent
  #27
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Smallbudgetguru's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel ➑️
Jamie,

I've known about your Agent Orange for some years now, but never really understood how people integrate in into their workflows..... Who is usually using it - foley artists? dubbing mixers? Are they printing the hard copies and keeping them beside the computer screen, or switching between PT and pdf reader on-screen? What is the most common usage scenario?

Kudos for GPL-ing it.
We use it for Prop Foley Cue sheets. We don't print, we use ipads. Its quite nifty! Love Agent Orange thanks for the update!
Old 6th August 2013 | Show parent
  #28
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iluvcapra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocamycola89 ➑️
"Agent Orange was unable to recognize the file you provided for input. Agent Orange is only capable of reading text exports in the format used by Pro Tools. Make sure you are inputting the correct kind of file, and try again."

Well... I am indeed exporting a .txt file made in PT10.1.1 so it should be working right or have I missed something?
Ehhh.... make sure you have AO version 2.0.
Old 10th August 2014
  #29
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Agent Orange and Pro Tools 11

I am unable to export PDF with Agent Orange when using a Pro Tools 11 txt. Is this a normalcy and are you creating an update, or is this a PEBKAC error?
Old 11th August 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
mfranken's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelda_Cassada ➑️
I am unable to export PDF with Agent Orange when using a Pro Tools 11 txt. Is this a normalcy and are you creating an update, or is this a PEBKAC error?
Avid changed their export as text formatting in PT11. I'd say this would be the cause of your issue. As an alternative EdiChart v3 can import PT11 text files as well as PTX files directly:

EdiChart - Create dubbing charts of Pro Tools sessions

Regards,

Mark
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