Quantcast
EBU R128 workflow - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
EBU R128 workflow
Old 19th March 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
EBU R128 workflow

can somebody tell me of this is the right workflow for mixing a tv-program with the EBU R128 specifications?

1. Mix of the program with the LUFS-meter
2. Bounce of the mix
3. Recalculation with a plugin
4. Layback to tape

And what do you do if you have to make corrections on the mix? For example they change 5 minutes within the program, do you have to make a new recalculation and then layback the whole program again?
Old 20th March 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
nucelar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi and welcome,
Yes, we have the same workflow basically, except we mix and record to track at the same time (no bounce, just consolidate). After the mix we analyze the loudness offline (faster than realtime) and adjust the mix gain accordingly to hit 0 LU. Layback digitally with no gain of course.
Corrections don't affect loudness significantly unless the programme is very short and you add some unusually loud stuff. There's a ±1 LU tolerance anyway. But it doesn't hurt to run it through the analyzer again just to be sure. Just layback the corrected segment.
Cheers
Old 20th March 2012
  #3
Gear Head
 
postfieldmusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just look at my Nugen LUFS meter occasionally while mixing, never felt the need to check it afterwards.
Old 20th March 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Larry Elliott's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE=nucelar;7688919] After the mix we analyze the loudness offline (faster than realtime) and adjust the mix gain accordingly to hit 0 LU./QUOTE]

What are you using to analyze off line?

Thanks
Old 20th March 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
[QUOTE=Larry Elliott;7690388]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar ➡️
After the mix we analyze the loudness offline (faster than realtime) and adjust the mix gain accordingly to hit 0 LU./QUOTE]

What are you using to analyze off line?

Thanks
The Nugen meters have an audiosuite option - dead handy for that 'final' check
Old 20th March 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
nucelar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We use nugen vislm in audiosuite mode, too.
LevelNorm by Grimm Audio is a great and cheaper option, though.
Old 25th April 2013
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
How strict do everyone keep the long term target? I'm mixing a series with -23 target and uses the WLM meter. Do you push the "reset" button any times during the episode, or is the long term supposed to be a sum from the whole episode?
Old 25th April 2013 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svisjfot ➡️
How strict do everyone keep the long term target? I'm mixing a series with -23 target and uses the WLM meter. Do you push the "reset" button any times during the episode, or is the long term supposed to be a sum from the whole episode?
The Long term -23LUFS (+/-1) target should be for the full episode.

Some broadcasters may also specify either a Loudness range and/or max/min values for Short term loudness to ensure proper dynamic range and that the mix isn't 'drifting' (say, starting out quiet and getting louder over time or vice versa)
Old 28th October 2013 | Show parent
  #9
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
WLM for R128

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svisjfot ➡️
How strict do everyone keep the long term target? I'm mixing a series with -23 target and uses the WLM meter. Do you push the "reset" button any times during the episode, or is the long term supposed to be a sum from the whole episode?
I'm also mixing a series using WLM now. It does also depend on how your DAW handles bounces/mixdowns. I glance at the built-in loudness meter in Nuendo while mixing, and I reset my WLM before doing an offline export. At the end of exporting I have the proper integrated and loudness range values. (The WLM has some settings you can play with in terms of how it handles resetting the integrated loudness value.)

With regards to strictness, yes, there is a ±1LU grace, but according to the EBU docs this is meant for situations where hitting the -23 spot on is not possible or practical (like live TV). There is no reason not to hit it if you are working in audio post. The EBU tech doc 3343 available from their site has very good information on these matters in the production side. Highly recommended.
Old 28th October 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
huub's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What's interesting though: the networks (here in holland anyway) measure in blocks between commercial breaks..
Well for live tv anyway..
I'm curious if they do it differently for 50 min drama shows?
Does anyone know?
Old 28th October 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blouhond ➡️
I'm also mixing a series using WLM now. It does also depend on how your DAW handles bounces/mixdowns. I glance at the built-in loudness meter in Nuendo while mixing, and I reset my WLM before doing an offline export. At the end of exporting I have the proper integrated and loudness range values. (The WLM has some settings you can play with in terms of how it handles resetting the integrated loudness value.)

With regards to strictness, yes, there is a ±1LU grace, but according to the EBU docs this is meant for situations where hitting the -23 spot on is not possible or practical (like live TV). There is no reason not to hit it if you are working in audio post. The EBU tech doc 3343 available from their site has very good information on these matters in the production side. Highly recommended.
Yep, most places I work for have a zero tolerance on -23LUFS, so I always do a final correct with LMCorrect. Live metering is mostly done with RTW hardware.
Old 28th October 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub ➡️
What's interesting though: the networks (here in holland anyway) measure in blocks between commercial breaks..
Well for live tv anyway..
I'm curious if they do it differently for 50 min drama shows?
Does anyone know?
Our dramas are measured by act as well.
Old 29th October 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator ➡️
Yep, most places I work for have a zero tolerance on -23LUFS, so I always do a final correct with LMCorrect. Live metering is mostly done with RTW hardware.
Does LMCorrect do something different other than gain change the mix to hit the 23LU dead-on? Compression? I just do audiosuite gain tweaks to hit the target at the moment, recheck via VisLM offline and off to tape
Old 29th October 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Animation ➡️
Does LMCorrect do something different other than gain change the mix to hit the 23LU dead-on? Compression? I just do audiosuite gain tweaks to hit the target at the moment, recheck via VisLM offline and off to tape
Well it can also limit the mix if just gaining up would result in exceeding -1dBTP, but as I don't come close to that normally, it's more or less the same than doing it manually.
Old 29th October 2013 | Show parent
  #15
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub ➡️
What's interesting though: the networks (here in holland anyway) measure in blocks between commercial breaks..
Well for live tv anyway..
I'm curious if they do it differently for 50 min drama shows?
Does anyone know?
We mix most of talent shows in NL (The Voice, Xfactor, Bloed zweet en tranen, Holland's got Talent etc). We usually have the dialogue aimed around -24/-25 and mix by ear around that. That means in dialogue driven documentaries we often end up below -23 lufs, with music driven shows like the voice we end up 2 or 3 above. But I like the dialogue to be at the level I'm used to. (with a fixed volume setting in the studio)

So we use the Grimm plugin to adjust afterwards. We do it on the whole show, the whole 90 mins, not the parts between commercial breaks. After a complete re-edit, we calculate the whole show again. For inserts of say less then a minute, I just bounce the insert, and level that against the R128 version, make sure there's no ticks when I "insert it" on the R128 track and send it off..

Apart from that, we process all the stems with the same Grimm offset as the full mix (just select all the stems above each other, make sure the full mix is on top, and hit process; it will analyze the full mix, and process all stems with the same reduction) This way they can always use the stems to reconstruct something (for example change the timing of soundfx if graphics have changed).

R128 has complicated delivery a bit (especially with inserts, re-edits etc) but the benefits are definately worth it IMO...

Cheers.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 577 views: 34049
Avatar for kdm
kdm 1st July 2009
replies: 50 views: 5973
Avatar for Animus
Animus 26th April 2010
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump