I'm not a carpenter and I'm not a photographer, let's just get that out of the way first.

I can not afford a system 5 desk or a D-control but I really want to drive my system with out taking my attention off the picture. I've spent many nights lying awake thinking about and/or putting my wife to sleep with stories of this concept and idea.

I need a serious remote with out the serious price tag and I need it to be completely customizable, modular, light weight, semi portable and ergonomic.
I think it was Gary that said something about playing the console like a musical instrument?.. How a guitar player doesn't have to look at the fretboard.. all feel... That really hammered home what I've been feeling for at least a year or two. This is what I want.


So here it is. - pics at the bottom


MACKIE CONTROL
pro's - cheap, new alps faders feel ok.
cons - locked into it's firmware programming.

I already had 32 faders of mackie control. I really loved the idea of it more than the actual function once I got them though. They do all the things I want them to do and still do, like plug in control and some edit functions etc.. but 32 faders is a long way to stretch or roll too all day and it just didn't feel practical. I had to break up with one of my EXT's

FADERPORT
PROs - Cheap
Cons - Cheap

Another issue was not having a center section with sweet spot controls. With a mackie array, you have to grab the actual fader, you can't flip it to the center. There are cases where you can nudge the banks around so that it's right in front of you, but this isn't always doable. Just another reason to let go of 25-32. I had an old Faderport and I had never considered this, but when I hooked it up along side the mackies, it would lock on to whatever channel was selected.. The buttons are crap on this thing but wheels started turning

TRAKTOR KONTROL X1
PROs - Cheap
Cons - None

The fact is, I just don't have enough knobs and buttons on the mackie to drive all day with with out keyboard and mousing. I needed something slim and with as many knobs and buttons as possible. I found this and immediately bought 2 of them. Not only are they designed to be customized, they are USB powered and even light up. They come with software to dig in and completely program exactly what each button or knob does. Perfect. And they also have a shift button with toggle or momentarily access a 2nd page.. doubling your knobs and buttons.. Hell yeah!

WIRES
I actually had a new client come in here not to long ago.. first thing he said was wow you have a lot of wires. It's like saying, WOW you're dog is FAT. I need to have this thing wired internally somehow with out needing an electrician. Of course there will always be a few wires around here and there, but it must be minimized.

HOLLOW
I was whipping a spatula through the air because I'm lazy and didn't feel like drying it before I put it away. The handle broke off and it flew across the room impaling itself into a closet door.. I felt like Doc Brown and I'd just hit my head on the sink and invented the flux capacitor... it's so simple.. it's perfect.. A door! and hollow door that I can sink the gear into and run wires between the layers
YES!
I picked up an 80x30 hollow interior door for 30 bucks at my local hardware store. While I was there I impulse bought an 80x3 inch piece of smooth door frame trim to use as a wrist wrest. It actually works very well.

I've been testing out different layouts sitting on top and spending full workdays with each design idea and I found the right fit. It's simple, it's symmetrical and it's a little sexy. It also opens the door for things I hadn't thought of like client laptops, usb port and power access, a place for my lunch...



Here is the frame after making all my cuts. I used a dremel 300 with a few different attachments. At the top, you can see what remains of the partical board re-enforcing for the doorknob assembly. It was too late when I realized I should have checked this first and it was a real pain to dig out..

You can also see the door frame trim wrist wrest. My wife is going to upholster this with some padding and faux black leather.



Along with my foot, here's an example of where the wires go.



Here's the faderport. quick access to transport and selected channel's fader. My favorite part is that it will jump to the selcted channel even if it's not accessible on the current banks of the mackie. Also, when the mackie in in flip mode controlling a plug in or something, the faderport stays available as a volume fader.



Here is one of the EXT's. Originally in my head I pictured the mackies all laying flat and flush with the desk. This just isn't doable with a standard door, but it's still something I'm interested in when I go to desk v2. For now there are crude holes for running wires in the back. It's still in the test phase and all of this will be smoothed out and stained and polyurethaned at a later time.



Mackie ext 2



Here's a side view of the traktor controller. I bought a couple packs of shims to glue as risers underneath for support. The idea was to have these units flush with the mackies and have the work as one surface. Coincidentally, if you unscrew the screws on the sides of the mackies just a little bit, you can lay the traktor units on that using an indentation on the sides, it's actually a perfect fit that I may end up using.

Both traktor units are set up as generic midi devices and for the most part are set up to control functions on the selected track. There are some global functions here too such as automation modes, monitoring modes, window sets etc. I've set them up for gate shifting and can hold shift and access many other functions that I only need once in a while. These units are only 200 bucks and I highly recommend them.



Here's a shot of the first power on test. On the side where the vaccum is right now, I'll be adding a Novation remote zero. Automap is great, especially when I have buttons on the traktors that are set up to open and close plug in editors.. but the Zero is bulky and doesn't fit very well into this set up. I'm still on the fence with what I want to do with it. I love it, and I hate it.

I like the idea of using the door, and I can't wait to see it once you've got it all finished up and polished!

Wow Jesse! Congrats on the build, this looks fantastic!

I'd never heard of the TRAKTOR KONTROL X1 before this. Could you expand a little on what track functions you're using this for? It seems like an interesting little unit!

Cheers

Very cool. I love this DIY type thinking. Makin' **** work the way you want.

The traktor kontrol's were designed by Native instruments for digital djing. They are meant to work in tandum with some other dj unit NI sells but it's dedicated to effects and loops etc.. I was initially attracted to these because of the size

Traktor software is sort of second fiddle to Serato so they included alt lexan overlays as well as software that you can use to customize it for whatever DJ software you use. Or for whatever midi functions you want in any software that can read midi messages. I don't think they considered what I'm doing with it when they made it.. My biggest difficulty with them was deciding whether I wanted two or four of them.

How I'm using them is slowly developing as I go.. so far here's what I got

Below is a shot from the software that comes with them. You can connect up to 4 units simultaneously and you do not need to have this software running to use them.. From the looks of it, your changes are written immediately to the unit itself
fire and forget meets plug and play.

As you can see, I can tell each knob or button what midi CC to send, how to send it. The names written in the fields are arbitrary and don't do anything except remind me what they do.. that field defaults to the midi CC# unless you write in it. This is the map for page 1 of the left hand controller.

All the commands are programmed via Nuendo's generic controller set up. This process takes an hour or so. The top section is set to control the sends on whatever track is selected. The button turns them on and off and knob sets the level. These top knobs are finite pan pots and they are not motorized.

The 4 knobs in the middle section are linked to Nuendo's quick controls. If you don't know, quick controls are sort of a poor man's midi learn.. they can be set up to control anything and are pretty easy to change mid stream. There is an Nuendo 5.5 update due this summer that will make this even easier and bring a form of real midi learn to the table which is another reason I bought these. These are endless rotory encoders and you can specify in the controller software how many ticks each notch equals.. I'm set for one=one right now. They are also push buttons, I'm still working out what functions I need most at these positions..

There are also 4 buttons in the middle section.. I have not landed on a function for these on the left hand unit but I'm sure something will pop up eventually.

There is also a shift button in the middle section. This button is hardwired, you can't change it. You can tell the unit via the control software how you want it to behave though. For now, I'm using it as a gate.. I have to hold it down to reach page 2 functions. I can use shift as a toggle though if I want to.

The bottom section is made of 4 vertical rows..

the left side opens and closes inserts on the selected channel. This is very handy to have available for many obvious reasons.. but with the novation zero and automap (not pictured) .. I just click my 'ins1' button on the Traktor and the plug in pops to the front - automap maps all the controls that I have programmed for that plug in straight to it's touch sensitive controls in the order I've chosen, to the exact control I've chosen. I can also dig in to plug ins with the mackie faders, not quite as quick and flexible as "custom faders" but I can get the same control from a variety of sources. Having this functionality is basically a poor man's hybrid of the center sections of the system 5MC and the D-control. Only instead of separate eq and dynamics sections, I have 1 that I basically toggle btw any type of plug in. As you can imagine, this is really ****ing cool. and I never have to look at my edit.

The right side is linked to nuendos direct routing automation. For PT users that don't know, all Nuendo tracks have 8 direct routing options, the top slot is the main out that you've chosen eg: dia A -> dia main buss. But I can have 7 more options on where I want this signal to go just like a send, like for example a noise reduction buss that has 1 or 2 instances of all my favorite noise control solutions.. like a broadband, and multiband, a harmonic notch filter etc etc etc. Then this noise buss can route to 8 different places too.. I use these buttons to select where the track is going and automate the switch to the new buss. Ultimately all the dialog is going to the dialog buss, but I can manage many many options this way and save track count, RAM and CPU real-estate along the way.

All these buttons light up when active. At a glance, I can see what send is on, what plugs are active and where it's routing. Only by the lights though, only I will know where it routing.. there is no label or scribble strip so standardization in my templates is key.

Page 2/shift is currently mapped to nuendos channel eq's which I don't use very much. nothing else is mapped.



Below is the current set up for the right hand unit


This is basically the same as the left side with different functions.

top section controls my N5 control room monitor sources.. which is typically..
MAIN 5.1
LtRt Decoded
LtRt
DIAL
SFX
BG
MUSIC
SOUND DESIGN/PLAYBACK

Right now the knobs to nothing



The middle section buttons controls global automation modes
TOUCH LATCH CROSS and TRIM
The knobs are a continuation from the left side and are mapped to quick controls 5-8


The lower section Left side is more automation controls like preview and punch behavior options ( like write to all in PT)

The Right side controls window sets and mixer top panel views -> meters,waveform meters, inserts, direct routing - this is still in progress


The good news is.. I have a lot of options and when Nuendo 5.5 upgrade comes out, I'm moving from light speed to ludicris speed.

Of course with Nuendo it'll be me and 3 other people worlds wide.. but **** it right?

Lookin' good!
You're going to love it when it's finished. Take your time (if you can) and think through all the current and future scenarios of your workflow. While you have things open, add more cat5, coax, or anything you can think of so when you need to add something later (you will) you'll have less to tear apart. Also, plan the final finishes carefully. When I built my console, (GS thread here) I went to McMaster-Carr for aluminum trim and various other pieces so that it has that totally factory built look. Since you are working with a wood door, how are you planning to finish it? I became very friendly with many coats of poly-urethane and wet sandpaper...
Have fun!

Thanks for the advice Bill. I've always liked your console.. I had no idea you made it holy **** dude very slick. Very good advice about cat5 and all that. I'm not quite there with my fabrication skills yet. I live in NYC and don't have access to a good wood or metal shop that I can experiment in with out paying a lot. I'm going to take my time and enjoy it but ultimately deep down I know that this is a prototype for the one I'll spend 20+ years behind.. just a feeling. For finishing, I'm thinking deep dark burgundy tones and high gloss. As for the detailing, it will come to me. First thing I need to do is come up with something clever to hide the remaining wires and power cables..

I ran across this... Livid Instruments

I'm going to teach myself some electronics and maybe wire in a few custom buttons that I make myself

Desk v2 is already cooking believe me.

Looks Great! I took the Tinker Toy approach and built a stand for my D-Command out of Kee Klamps, iron pipe and plywood, but I didn't need to integrate so many separate systems.

The main advice I would give is:

1. Make sure the keyboard and mouse are at the proper height and angle so that they can become an extention of your body, and

2. Devise a system for the legs that will allow you to adjust the angle of the work surface so that it directs sound reflections below the level of your shoulders. This is an acoustics consideration that will reduce phase cancellations and comb filtering.

You may want to try the Kee Klamp and pipe option first in order to find the best heights and angles using a malleable support system before committing to something more aesthetically attractive. The Kee Klamps can be ordered on line fairly inexpensively (try Davis-Bacon) and the pipe you can get from Home Depot. It will allow you to try different height and angle options prior to commiting to a more permanent solution. Actually, I just stayed with the Kee Klamps and pipe, because I love that industrial look. If you stay with the Kee Klamps and pipe option, you'll want to buy some spray paint to dress them up. I use flat black for the pipe and silver for the Kee Klamps, but whatever fits the decor will do.

Looks great... Keep us updated on the fader product


www.Facebook.com/pmjent

For NOT being a carpenter I think you did a GREAT job.

May I suggest some FORMICA for the surface since we have a wooden work station that is beautiful but a pain in the butt to keep clean. For some reason the human body's arms love to leave dirt on the surface of the wood even though it has a couple of good coats of sealer and urethane varnish on it. We have to clean the surface repeatedly and sometimes, even with a good cleaner, it is impossible to get off the grime. ( and yes I am well showered and my arms are clean)

He Gary, you wouldn't happen to have a photo of your desk? I have my D-Command on a table right now, it's too high and can't afford a Argosy right now...

Here are some 3D renderings for clarity, plus an iPhone photo.

A couple of notes, I always overbuild everything, and this was built to withstand a major earthquake. I used 1 1/2'" pipe, but 1" or even 3/4" would have been plenty strong. The stand includes a high table behind the meter bridge for the large screen LCDTV and other misc items to sit on, so it is really a console and TV stand combined. The computer monitors are mounted on articulated arms attached to the back TV table. The Speakers are on PA speaker stands and placed above the LCDTV in order to shoot over the computer monitors. You can break it down for moving or storage in about 5 minutes using one allan wrench. I used a Sawzall to cut the pipe.

Total cost: $260 for the Kee Klamps, $140 for the pipe, maybe $100 for Baltic Birch Plywood. I could probably have built it for half that and it still would have been rock solid.

Cheers for the hugely detailed reply Jesse, I found it very interesting! As far as I can tell, you can set any of the knobs to any MIDI Channel and Controller Number. Would I be right in thinking then that this would be compatible with anything that can read MIDI? I'm thinking of using it in a similar way to you, but with Pro Tools, and just want to make sure what I want to do is possible :D !

Cheers,

I have never explore PT deep enough to know, but, if PT can be controlled via a generic controller than yes, I'm sure you can do it.

The 3D pre-vis looks extremely helpful Gary, how did you do that? I know a kitchen cabinet guy that I might barter with for this sort of thing, unless I can do it myself.

I hadn't even though about the sound reflections but I did indeed notice them right away.. finding my angle will probably be the next step.

And thanks in part for the inspiration to finally do this

3D CG modeling has been a side business of mine for about 15 years or so. I use Cinema 4D.

Glad I was able to supply a little inspiration. It isn't often that happens. You definitely took it to a new level.

Highly inspirational thread.

phil p

Thanks Gary, that's a good solution. I have to make some decisions fast, but acoustically/practically there's a lot to be considered. I have a 6x5 meters treated room with only 2.20 m ceiling. I use a desk thats about 3m wide and sit right in front of the centre speaker with the centre section of the d-command in front of me. LCR at earsheight, 40'' plasma above that.

The meterbridge of the D-command is too high to have the editwindow-monitor of Pro Tools in front of me. Even if I use an arm and have the monitor partly "in front" of the meterbridge, it still covers half of the direct sound from the centre speaker. I guess I could put the Centre on its side and raise it, so the tweeters are the same height for LCR. I do about 70% stereo work...

And then there's the sweet spot. I sit in the middle, about 2 meters from the speakers. There's no way my client next to me is able to judge the soundfield, but I guess that's not going to change unless I get a bigger room ;-) How do you guys handle that side of working with a client next to you, "trust me, it's going to be allright..."?

Great stuff Jesse!
While I do try to keep my system on the minimal side (so it can fit in a backpack in case a sudden war outbreaks, haha), this got me thinking about adding some more controls....

Specifically, I was looking at your X1 and thought it could serve instead of my QuickControls (sends, compressor threshold, de-essing ammount, LPF, HPF, etc), but then I noticed there are printed inscriptions on the buttons and beside them.... Would you say the button ones could be scratched away? And are you thinking about printing labels to put beside buttons and knobs?

The automap feature you use to drive the plug-in that is in front - is that the feature of the Novation software you mention, of Nuendo, or the Traktor software? Is it mapping the MIDI controls based on the plugin that has the focus, and then you use Nuendo's generic remote to receive the controls? I ask because I wonder if that would work with PT as well....?

I have an older ReMOTE SL Zero, and the Automapping is apart of the Novation software. It runs fairly well, wrapping your plugins to work with the hardware, but sometimes I found the automatically generated mappings to be somewhat nonsensical, putting toggles on knobs and similar silliness. You can very easily create your own presets for the plugins that will stay with them any time you change the focus to to that plugin, which takes a little time but gives you, IMO, a better work surface. I haven't really used it of late with the more recent version of Automap, as I don't really have the space for it, so things may be a bit better now.

Love the table+the leg structure, but the split DAW monitors would drive me nuts. I pushed my DAW monitors back behind the console (next to each other) and had special prescription glasses made so I could read the fine print that far away. Back there the monitors are out of the direct monitor spray. This also put them closer to the plane of the big TV monitor, so my eyes had to work less adjusting from a closer DAW monitor to the farther-away video monitor.

phil p

Yes the knobs are great for the most common mix tasks.. mine are set up for
harmonic drive, compressor output trim, LPF, HPF, Front divergence, side divergence, the last two are researved

Names on the buttons do not scratch off easily, I tried. The units do come with a blank lexan overlay so you can write in your own names under each button/knob. I'm going to find a decent label maker and stick mine on eventually. But for now it's not important.

Automap lets you drive the plug in that is in front focus using the touch controls on the novation unit.. has nothing to do with the tracktors or nuendo. I use the traktor units to open/close the plug in editors, so it kind of works as one unit in this way and I'm able to decide what I want to play with.
You can with one touch flip btw automap mode and midi mode on the SL unit and use it as an additional generic remote that you set up.. I tried this at first to use it to open the plug I wanted.. however I found that Automap will not lock on to a plug that is already open when you switch back to that mode. This was another reason that I needed a seperate unit to control opening and closing.

If PT has similar commands that can be driven by midi.. I have no doubt that you could do this in PT also.

The bad news is.. the SL is bulky and designed for live performances. It does not really fit anywhere. I really need the functions though so I'm seriously considering cracking it open and mounting the guts on something custom that will fit in the desk the same way. If possible, I'd like to split the SL in half and put knobs on my left and sliders on my right... who knows, might work.

Oh.. and.. Jbridge on 64bit systems will play nicely with automap. But you have to automap wrap first.. then jbridge wrap 2nd.

And it will work with Vst3 now

Use a mirror for that. Set it on the desk and angle the desk till you can't see the speakers in the mirror. You may need a cloud above the mix position now or an absorber/diffuser.

Yeah, I could see how split monitors could bother some people, but I'm fine with it. Right monitor is the edit window, left monitor is the mix window and any plugin or pan windows, meters, etc. I'm mostly using the right monitor. I try to keep my focus on the movie as much as possible. Because the LCD is being fed by video out PCIe, the two computer monitors are arranged side by side as far as mouse movements are concerned, so all that is required is a slight turn of my head, not a big trackball move. I'm more bothered by the video monitor being too high because it kills my neck.

I'm spending a couple hours today seeing how my set up will talk to PT9. It is not immediately clear what do here and my first reaction is that it might be a bust.

Does anyone know anything about generic midi control and protools?

In nuendo it's very easy to say for example, midi CC#37 will control locate to right locator.. save that and now you have a hardware button.

I'm not seeing where this would be done in PT if at all.

Hey there awesome stuff mate make me want to build my own. I run the Euphonix MC Mix could I also use the TRAKTOR KONTROL X1 as well?

Eucon and Midi at the same time?

I have Nuendo 5

Do you have any midi controller gear currently? If yes..

1. connect it and go to the devices menu
2. + add generic controller
3. download and then load this xml by clicking import - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10358449/CLEAR%20ALL.xml
this will clear all the default parameters of the generic device.
4. assign your midi i/o to your hardware and click "add" to create a new parameter and then click midi learn while moving controls to see if you're getting activity.
5. Name your parameter and you'll see a duplicate in the window below, this is where you assign it to Nuendo functions.. pretty much anything that is in the menu's and everything have can be assigned a keycommand, plus some additional items that don't get key commands.

If this button now controls the function you chose.. while eucon is running.. then yes, you can run up to 4 tracktor units simultaneously. Set up takes a while.. but once it's done, you'll make up for that time in work speed for sure.

Also, there are other Native Instruments controllers that will work and are customizable in the exact same way.. I believe you can have 4 total from this list.. take a look at

Maschine
Kore controller
Rig Kontrol
Audio Kontrol 1
Traktor Kontrol X1




have fun

VCA Faders!! sort of...


Nuendo does not have the VCA faders feature. It's one of the PT functions that I wish I had..

Now I sort of have it.

As long as the mixer window is open, I hold shift (qwerty) and select the tracks using the buttons on the mackie - or -shift left/right arrow.

I have a button on the tracktor assigned to " link faders " and another one set to "unlink faders". So there's nothing really to set up. I can just roll through the mix, on the fly do my fader select and link routine. Roll back (I have a macro set up that moves my cursor back in 4 second intervals..) do my moves with my linked faders and then hit the unlink button...

an added bonus.. the fader port will control this linked group while it's activated by default!!

DONE



PS, the total retail cost at this point.. including tools used.. is just under $3,600

I've done quite a bit of research looking for a functional, cheaper solution to some of the avid control surfaces. it seems like its simply not possible to easily integrate various products like this and use them with pro tools.
there are many products that I would love mesh together a number of products in this fashion, to create my own personalized control surface. but from what i've gather it can't really be done with pro tools as you must use an approved protocol and not generic midi mapping. Yes, there is the learn funcation in the plugin window, but that is only works with some of the control surfaces. From what I've seen this isn't available with the MCU. Only the M-audio keyboards and the avid control surface allow you to map your plugins. Not even the artist series allows custom plugin mapping (i'm patiently waiting for that). I'd love to setup a bcr2000 or better yet a mackie c4 pro in a way similar to my beloved middle section of the d-command but it can't be done. And I imagine avid isn't going to make it easier for us to put together makeshift icons.

as far as menu commands and key commands, there's the programs like quickeys and hardware options like x-keys but you can't use midi for menu or ascii commands. as far as I know.

but this is just my research and I'd love to rigs that people have put together like this that people have put together for use in pro tools.

Thanks Dan. After about an hour of tinkering I gave up lol.