Quantcast
attaching audio to HD video - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
attaching audio to HD video
Old 1st April 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
attaching audio to HD video

This is my first time going all the way through sound design on a film. This forum has already been very helpful in answering some of my n00b questions.

And now I have another.

We have a rough cut to be submitted for a workshop lab. What is the best way for the audio I've created in Pro Tools to be married to the hi quality video that the editor has in Final Cut?

At first, I figured I would create a beep at a specified time before the first frame of the video file he gave me. Then he could add my stems into Final Cut at the specified beep time. But then I started wondering if FCP could do a decent job of mixing the audio stems together.

Is this ok for a rough cut? What is the common practice?

Thanks!
Old 1st April 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
minister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhebert ➑️
At first, I figured I would create a beep at a specified time before the first frame of the video file he gave me.
Word on the street is that 2 seconds before the first frame of action is a pretty popular place for such a beep.

Mix the program in your setup, then give the editor a stereo mix file that s/he places on the FCP timeline. I would make your audio file the EXACT length of the QT they gave you. Select the QT on your timeline and print that.
Old 1st April 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by minister ➑️
Word on the street is that 2 seconds before the first frame of action is a pretty popular place for such a beep.

Mix the program in your setup, then give the editor a stereo mix file that s/he places on the FCP timeline. I would make your audio file the EXACT length of the QT they gave you. Select the QT on your timeline and print that.
Thanks!

Yeah, I would do a 2-beep, but the video file he gave me starts after some lead-in sound that I'm using - so I need a few more seconds of "pre-roll".

And I would like some credits music to continue past the video file he sent me (there are no credits on it).

So, I would like to have audio outside of the video file he gave me if possible.

But it sounds like you have no problem using FCP to marry the sound back to the full-res version.
For whatever reason, the editor wants stems from me. But for the final print, it sounds like I should mix the stems myself (unless we get a budget for mastering).
Old 1st April 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
minister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ok, so you moved the first frame of action earlier. You need to be VERY clear about where that is in order for the editor to place it on the timeline so that you are in sync. You need to tell him it should go EXACTLY 5 seconds (or whatever) BEFORE your first frame. But what if your lead in has a fade up? Hard to tell where that is.....

I would give him a file with a 2-pop 2 seconds before the first frame of your new lead in and tell the editor to place your mix file the lead-in time plus 2 seconds before his FFOA.

It is no problem to give an FCP editor an audio file to lay into the timeline -- it is done all the time.

Why does he need stems? Is he going to adjust levels after you give him the mix? Is it better to adjust mix levels in a video suite or an audio suite? Or, are they going to continue to cut the show?
Old 1st April 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks so much again for the quick replies!

Yeah, I've recommended that I give him a 2-pop, but it would actually be a 5-pop - and I would make it exactly 5 seconds before the first frame of video he gave me.

This job has been going fairly quick and dirty. It's a small crew. I've gotten to know the director pretty well, but I haven't worked much with the editor. He hasn't heard my "finished" rough mix and I just think the editor doesn't know me enough to completely trust my mix yet! (again, it is my first feature-length - so I can't say I blame him... but it's his first too!)

For the final mix, I will make sure that the stems aren't combined in FCP. Chances are they will know the mix enough by then to let me do it.
Old 1st April 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by minister ➑️
Ok, so you moved the first frame of action earlier. You need to be VERY clear about where that is in order for the editor to place it on the timeline so that you are in sync. You need to tell him it should go EXACTLY 5 seconds (or whatever) BEFORE your first frame. But what if your lead in has a fade up? Hard to tell where that is.....

I would give him a file with a 2-pop 2 seconds before the first frame of your new lead in and tell the editor to place your mix file the lead-in time plus 2 seconds before his FFOA.

It is no problem to give an FCP editor an audio file to lay into the timeline -- it is done all the time.

Why does he need stems? Is he going to adjust levels after you give him the mix? Is it better to adjust mix levels in a video suite or an audio suite? Or, are they going to continue to cut the show?
It's true that it's not a big problem, but any FCP editor should know how to give a flash frame in the video where you should lay in a pop sync. Not giving video black at the beginning and end is just lame.

In fact, many times (and I edit video as well as audio these days), I work with clients who prefer flash frames at the beginning and end so we can all be on the same page about sync and frame rate. Pops at the beginning and end are a really useful tool.

Adding a couple of slugs with a flash frame in FCP (or Avid) takes about five seconds to do.
Old 1st April 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
That's what I thought. Sometimes it's just nice to know somebody understands. Thanks!
Old 3rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It is standard practice to add a flash frame and pop of tone 2 seconds before you want audio to start.

You would also have a flash frame and pop of tone 2 seconds after you want audio to end.

These are built into the timeline of FCP and included in all exports sent to your audio post house.

Assuming the audio post house sends you 48 kHz AIF files, FCP will maintain sync perfectly.

As to doing the mix in FCP, you can do it, but ProTools or Soundtrack Pro will do the mix MUCH better.
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Exactly. There's no such thing as a "5 pop", and if you do that it will only confuse people down the line. This is a film and video convention that MUST be adhered to!

So, if you need and additional 5 seconds, 10 seconds or whatever of black at the head of the piece for your sound design, tell the editor and he'll insert the black.

In the film world, the 2-pop goes at 9 feet into the 12-foot Academy leader; this corresponds to 1:00:06:00 and the first frame of the film (even if the frame is black) is at 12 feet or 1:00:08:00. However, in the video & TV world, the 1st frame of the piece is at 1:00:00:00 so the pop goes at 00:59:58:00.

Good luck with the project

best,

Joe
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I appreciate all the info.

I should have probably noted that this is a super-low budget project with just a few people. Post-production is mainly the editor, director and me. Also, this is a rough cut with mostly temp audio to show some test audiences and labs.

I am also a video editor sometimes, and I would have put a flash frame and slate in. But I'm an not the video editor on this, and the editor didn't put anything in. I will make sure he does when I get a locked picture to work with.

Thanks though. All the info is good.
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
georgia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
just a comment on the tail pop... if this is going to be screened as a test cut or for a review... you might want to place the tail pop & flash frame 10 seconds out after the end of the piece... The flash and pop can put people off in a screening if they are just starting to sort of digest the movie at the very end. If it's just for the client and won't be test screened you can put it anywhere... the extra time lets the "projectionist" or editor have time to stop the tape on black.


not a big deal... FWIW


cheers
geo
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
Pops at the beginning and end are a really useful tool.
KK- definitely the quote of the day-


to the original poster- the two second head and tail pop is considered professional operating practice- they are a nearly mandatory feature for sync confidence.
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If you're working in Protools, you can also just lay back (bounce) to the video file they sent you. If you include extra space at the beginning and end for your extra music, etc., it will usually fill in with white or black. Depending on the version of Protools and the codec of the movie file, you can even grab a frame of black somewhere in the movie and paste it into the blank space. This will give them an exact reference of what you intended. It's a good idea to make a mix as a BWAV file as well, and anything else the editor has specified.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 55 views: 32445
Avatar for IM WHO YOU THINK
IM WHO YOU THINK 13th October 2020
replies: 15929 views: 1533555
Avatar for Ragan
Ragan 11th January 2019
replies: 1296 views: 181982
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump