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Pro Tools HD 7.4, Avid Mojo, Video Compression???!!?!? Help!!?!?!
Old 27th January 2009
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Talking Pro Tools HD 7.4, Avid Mojo, Video Compression???!!?!? Help!!?!?!

OH WOW... Ok here goes....

At my day job, we make commercials...

I'm running a Pro Tools HD 7.4 system, with a dual 1.8 Mac G5, 4 gigs of Ram.

Also I am running JUST a core card, with a sync IO and 1 192 (not a single process card) .... I know I know....

I am also running an Avid Mojo, (on its own firewire PCI card)

My question is What video compression codec do I need from my Video Editor?

I've been running H264's just fine; however, they are a bit choppy... so detailed foley etc... gets out of sync once the mix is back at his Avid DS Nitris system.

Is there a recipe that Just works perfect? and doesn't A. look like crap and B. does not run choppy?

I've been working on trying to find out what would be ideal for about a year....

I know that the minimum requirements for CPU is a Dual 2.0 G5... (I'm running a dual 1.8 G5...but I have 4 gigs of RAM)

I know that a single core card is very un-ideal as well....

We have cleaner compression software and I can crunch video compression settings for the next 8 years... but I figure maybe somebody here can help...?

HELP!!

thanks
Old 27th January 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You want to run the Mojo on the internal firewire bus, not from the PCI card. If you are using firewire drives, put those on the PCI firewire card.

Also, don't use H.264. Use Avid video codec, Quicktime DV or Quicktime MotionJpeg. Avid video works the best if you can get it.

I think the Avid resolutions Mojo will take are 14:1, DV and uncompressed SD (though for Uncompressed, I don't think a firewire drive will do it. You may have to stripe a couple of internal SATA drives.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Smile

Hey, thanks so much for the response!! I really appreciate it! So an Avid DV video codec, That would have to be exported from the Avid DS Nitris directly out right? My video encoding software (Cleaner, and Sorenson) don't seem to have Avid Codec options?....

It's all MPEG 2,4 QT, WM, etc etc... these can go on for days... Arrrrggghhh video codecs!!!!

Alright, and what if there is another drive running on the internal Bus on the FW 800 slot, is that ok or no?
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Oh snap!

Oh snap!

And what's the deal these days with video, and where it should reside?

In the session folders Video files folder? Or pointing to a separate firewire drive?

thanks!
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Smile Avid DV codec

Hey Rick,

I crunched my editors .avi reference file (with sorenson squeeze) using an Avid Dv codec, and when I bring it into the Pro Tools timeline, all I get is Black video.

This video played fine on my PC encoder box. But once transfered to my Audio Bay, in OS X Pro Tools. just black video.....

It seems H264 would be the way to go conceptually, it looks great and the file size is under 100 MB. It plays back in pro tools fine. (a bit choppy through the slaved tv monitor via the mojo) but fine enough.

I've experimented with working mostly with the video out the mojo and to the TV.

However; when I get down to some sample acurate foley stuff, intricate sound design hits etc...I simply turn off the "Output Video via Firewire" and play back the H264 in the box. (after setting my QT video Offset to 0 quarter frames of course) and video plays smooth and acurrate.

Is this what I should just plan on doing or do you or anyone have specific video codec settings with either Cleaner, or Sorenson....?
Old 28th January 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You may need to load the Avid Video Codec into your quicktime codec folder, though I would think that when you install the Mojo software it would do that.

Most of this you can find on the Digidesign website. Just do a tech document search for Mojo.

The Problem with H.264 is that though small in size, it uses a lot of system resources and unless you encode it keyframing every frame, which makes the file much larger, it does not scroll well on ProTools. I've also had some problems with H.264 crashing my system from time to time.

You can use Sorenson on an Avid to make DV files or Motion JPEG files which work better than H.264 with a Mojo. Not quite as well as the Avid video file, but I generally use Motion JPEG or DV as I get files from both Avid and Final Cut Pro.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I could be misunderstanding here, but don't you want to move from a Nitris rig to a PTHD rig with a mojo attached?

Most of the suggestions in here are revolving around using QT wrappers it seems? Installing the Avid DV codec for QT?

Why not use the native format from the avid? MXF is the media the Avid mojo plays natively and it will support almost all SD Avid codec options in 7.4. Prior to 7.4 it was locked into JFIF 15:1, DV25 and DV50 and IMX30 from memory.

You wont require anything intalled, just export from the Nitris rig using MXF and pick a compression to suit your storage requirements.

If you use MXF it uses the avid video engine, if you use any form of QT (even with the Avid DV codecs, as discussed above) is uses your OS and sync will be alot less tight as QT is not a timestamped format.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Red face MXF freaked out pro tools.....had to force quit...

So I walked down to the Avid DS Nitris system...

Output an MXF, with a modest DV 25 compression setting...

It kicked out 3... files...? 1 with audio, and 2 others (1 around 400 some MB, and the other around 100 MB...??!?! ) This is a 30 second commercials output mind you....

After transferring and then dragging each of these mystery MXF files into the PT timeline... Pro Tools freaked out and I had to Force Quit...

H264 seems to be the way to go.... I understand it's not time stamped, but you know what.... its small... it looks great... and it seems to be working pretty fine...

It gets a bit choppy and wound up at times; but AGAIN, if I select to NOT output it out Firewire to the external monitor.... then it looks REALLY clean, and tight.... as a point of final reference...

any other suggestions...??
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
H264 seems to be the way to go.... I understand it's not time stamped, but you know what.... its small... it looks great... and it seems to be working pretty fine...
Maybe it seems the way to go, but it isn't. H264 requires quite some heavy decoding, which might be why it looks choppy. It's more a delivery format than a work format.

I do not have any Avid experience, but I think you set something wrong while exporting the MXF. If I were you, I'd try to experiment in that direction.

Brent's comment about the mojo using its own video engine if you use MXF should be your priority as you want to have the best sync possible.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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jahtao's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Avoid h264. Use mxf dv-pal. You just need to work out how heavily to compress it, as you've discovered this is not a decision based solely on your storage requirements: uncompressed dv is no go outside of the video edit suite. Report back please if you crack it!
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
hef
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg ➑️
Maybe it seems the way to go, but it isn't. H264 requires quite some heavy decoding, which might be why it looks choppy. It's more a delivery format than a work format.

I do not have any Avid experience, but I think you set something wrong while exporting the MXF. If I were you, I'd try to experiment in that direction.

Brent's comment about the mojo using its own video engine if you use MXF should be your priority as you want to have the best sync possible.

I agree MXF is the way to go (we compress it down to DV25). Having MediaStation on your system is great for converting quicktimes to MXF. if you're gonna use quicktime use DV files not H264.
As to your other question- putting the video on its own dedicated internal drive is the way to go.

If you're going to use H264s then you should sell the mojo and use something cheaper.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
From the Avid you can export an AAF or OMF of the video (and audio).

I would go with AAF. Have the video editor render and mix down the video to one video track and delete everything from the project that you don't need; export an AAF containing the mixed down video and the audio tracks. Most places I work use DV 25 420. They can export to a folder. (Settings: Copy video media, consolidate audio with whatever handle length you might need); The media will reside in the folder with subfolder Avid Mediafiles dfor AAF or OMF Mediafiles for OMF) and there will be an AAF (or OMF) file that refers to the media. Copy all this to your PT rig. Use the "Import Session Data" (ALT-SHIFT-I on PC) command and select the AAF file. Select the tracks you want to import. This should work.

Alistair
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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soundboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
+1 on no H.264 or Sorensen compression. They are processor heavy and will bog down your session. DV25 or DVC pro will be much larger files. Dedicate a second internal drive to video and you will be much happier with the results. The Digidesign web site has a list of compatable codecs for the Mojo, in the Answerbase. The purpose of the Mojo is smooth work flow from the Avid. Make use of that.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
You guys are pretty sweet!!

I'll keep trying these suggestions, dude you did some work on Metalocalypse!! Thats pretty sweet!! That **** is hilarious!!



I'm gonna keep pluggin on this boys, I am in the US so I should prob. go with NTSC for sure...

I get OMF's just fine, from my video editor, but they have always been JUST AUDIO tracks, which is great, but we always needed a separate video track... "again usually H264..." everybody seems to hate this, even digi on this link .. --->
Digidesign | Support | Avid Mojo/Mojo SDI & Pro Tools 7.4-8.0 Requirements for Mac

I'll send this link to my editor and see what we can't come up with!!

you all Rock!

Fur Seal: A Minneapolis Recording Studio

check our old ass gear at the music studio I work at in Minneapolis...

its too cold here...

you guys got jobz in Cali??
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Smile Ok Good News!!

Soooooooooooo....

I showed my video editor some new video codec crunches that I came up with from your all's and digidesigns current advice.

And I think I found a winner...Nice picture, now there is no staggering playback, and a decent file size etc...

1. Out of the DS Nitris system (version 7.6 on PC) my editor kicks me out a reference file (.avi)

2. I take this (.avi) reference file (on my Video Encoder PC on the same network) I use a video encoding program from a company called Auto Desk, it is Cleaner XL version 1.5. I drag in my .avi reference file, and crunch a large quick time, using an Avid DV codec 720 x 480. DV/DVCPRO 25 NTSC 29.97

3. This works very nicely. I have it inside my video files folder right in the session folder on the same drive.

I HAVE QUESTIONS 4 YOU ALL NOW!!!!

1. Inside the APPS -- Digidesign -- Pro Tools Utilities -- Avid Video Tests -- AVoptionDNA Test NTSC.

This session plays back great on my system..?!?!?!?! HOW???

It is an actual Avid video track on my timeline. And the video is an OMF??

Does anyone know what the video codec is of this OMF file??

Do I need to have Media Station PT?

QUESTION 2!!!!

1. Should I use my last remaining pci card on my Mac G5, and install this scsi card and try to point my video files there, they are some old avid 80 gig 10,000 rpm drives I could integrate. Would this be more ideal or should I not waste my time.

thanks!!
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