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New round of layoffs....
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #91
Gear Addict
 
Monobasser's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
I have worked with Japanese coroporations a fair amount over the last 25 years.... they always tend towards having a 100 year plan. Sony seems to have lost theirs.

Sony has a non-Japanese board presently which is part of the problem-

Have you read their shareholders report? If not, you really should.
Yeah I don't disagree with any of that, I just disagree with the idea that putting their IP on other platforms will help them. The software and hardware models aren't things that can just be seperated, it's one model.

Nintendo broke the mould by not concentrating on hardware performance over everything else. You can only really compare Sony to Microsoft.

Sony are in great danger of 'doing a Sega', but once you've locked yourself into a hardware cycle there is very little you can do other than run with it.They managed to turn the PSP round with brute force but it really has no direct competition anyway.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monobasser ➑️
Yeah I don't disagree with any of that, I just disagree with the idea that putting their IP on other platforms will help them. The software and hardware models aren't things that can just be seperated, it's one model.

Nintendo broke the mould by not concentrating on hardware performance over everything else. You can only really compare Sony to Microsoft.

Sony are in great danger of 'doing a Sega', but once you've locked yourself into a hardware cycle there is very little you can do other than run with it.They managed to turn the PSP round with brute force but it really has no direct competition anyway.
I would highly recommend reading thier report- They are suffering the same issues in almost all of their divisions- which points at a strategic management issue. Basically, Howard Stringer is a key component of their failing-
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #93
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monobasser ➑️
Yeah I don't disagree with any of that, I just disagree with the idea that putting their IP on other platforms will help them.
Sure didn't hurt Microsoft.
I think the Apple/MS comparison is a perfect example where a closed system hurt profits and market penetration.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman ➑️
Sure didn't hurt Microsoft.
I think the Apple/MS comparison is a perfect example where a closed system hurt profits and market penetration.
I would sort of disagree, because Apple has managed to build cache into their product line with the non-platform diversifications of the ipod and the iphone.

their move to the intel platform was not about diluting their ip, it was more about simply taking advantage of the trends in current computer technology. Sony is not doing that- they are going backward, basing their hardware on more expensive, non-commodity parts, and then being required to support with IP. a very different thing. Apple knows that their whole business is based on user experience. Sony bases theirs on selling boxes. which is not a good 100 year phiolsophy- they don't care so much what the box brings to the consumer- they just want the consumer to buy their box...
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There's also the new gaming paradigm of the iPod Touch/iPhone.
One man can make a game and sell hundreds of thousands at $1.99 a piece.

Apple sells hardware / telco company subsidizes it / developer makes in volume.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
hociman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Cool strung out

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
Basically, Howard Stringer is a key component of their failing-
Would you say the company is being strung out? heh
Has it occurred to Sony that they may want to force PlayStation developers to develop for PS3 only? I still see brand new games being sold in boxes that say PlayStation 2 on them. What's up with that? If you want people to buy the PS3, make the games PS3 games! I know the PS3 I buy off the shelf today cannot play PS2 games. This is not rocket science. Where do I submit my application to become Sony's CEO?

The biggest mistake Apple ever made was that lawsuit with Microsoft where the language they agreed to was such that Microsoft couldn't copy Apple with Windows v1. It was perfectly legal for Microsoft to mimic (copy) Apple with Windows v2, or whatever came after the lawsuit. If Apple's lawyers had only made it so Microsoft could never copy Apple, computers would be very, very different. Fortunately, as Charles mentioned, Apple has a niche, a cult following, and cache. Sony has BluRay, HDCAM, and a pretty good 46" LCD TV. Is that it?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #97
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hociman ➑️
Would you say the company is being strung out? heh
Has it occurred to Sony that they may want to force PlayStation developers to develop for PS3 only? I still see brand new games being sold in boxes that say PlayStation 2 on them. What's up with that? If you want people to buy the PS3, make the games PS3 games! I know the PS3 I buy off the shelf today cannot play PS2 games. This is not rocket science. Where do I submit my application to become Sony's CEO?

The biggest mistake Apple ever made was that lawsuit with Microsoft where the language they agreed to was such that Microsoft couldn't copy Apple with Windows v1. It was perfectly legal for Microsoft to mimic (copy) Apple with Windows v2, or whatever came after the lawsuit. If Apple's lawyers had only made it so Microsoft could never copy Apple, computers would be very, very different. Fortunately, as Charles mentioned, Apple has a niche, a cult following, and cache. Sony has BluRay, HDCAM, and a pretty good 46" LCD TV. Is that it?
how would you feel if your biggest client, or maybe third biggest client told you you could not do work for their competition?

It is a free market- a business should make goods and services that have a demand. There continues to be a demand for PS2 games, and the COnsoles are still sold by Sony- they entirely screwed the pooch on not making the PS3 compatible with PS2 since it is their biggest success in the game universe.... That was beyond idiotic. Because If that compatibility WAS present instead of their waffling, it works, now it doesnt work sort of approach... all I can think of is this moment from Fight Club....


Lou: [Lou hits Tyler in the face] Do you hear me now?
Tyler Durden: No, I didn't quite catch that, Lou.
[Lou hits Tyler again]
Tyler Durden: Still not getting it.
[Lou hits Tyler a few more times]
Tyler Durden: Ok, I got it. ****, I lost it.
[Lou continues to beat up Tyler]

that......pretty much sums it up.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #98
Lives for gear
 
soundboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hociman ➑️
Sony has BluRay, HDCAM, and a pretty good 46" LCD TV. Is that it?
Sony does not make that LCD. Either Toshiba or Samsung make it. But it does have a lovely SONY logo on it.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
hociman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Arrow Stringer is an Idiot

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes ➑️
Sony- they entirely screwed the pooch on not making the PS3 compatible with PS2 since it is their biggest success in the game universe.... That was beyond idiotic. Because If that compatibility WAS present instead of their waffling, it works, now it doesnt work sort of approach...
Yea, they should have just made all PS3s backwards compatible with PS2 titles. Why they didn't is apparently due to the cost of sticking the emotion engine in the chassis. It would not erode their business model if they put the emotion engine in all PS3s and continued to let their developers release PS2 games. At least you would still be selling PS3s! Gamers who are unwilling to buy a PS3 could at least know their PS2 collection would be usable in the future. Instead, they have to buy a PS3 like the one I have, or keep a working PS2.

I have only read this on the Internet, but apparently Nintendo's licensing back in the NES days was such that Nintendo could basically tell their developers what they were going to do and tell them "you are going to like it too." I guess Sony does not have their licensing agreements with developers structured that way.

Has the PS3 ever turned a profit? Let's just hope they don't start charging to play COD5 online. If they pull a Microsoft on that front, I reckon they are going to alienate their customers.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hociman ➑️
Yea, they should have just made all PS3s backwards compatible with PS2 titles. Why they didn't is apparently due to the cost of sticking the emotion engine in the chassis. It would not erode their business model if they put the emotion engine in all PS3s and continued to let their developers release PS2 games. At least you would still be selling PS3s! Gamers who are unwilling to buy a PS3 could at least know their PS2 collection would be usable in the future. Instead, they have to buy a PS3 like the one I have, or keep a working PS2.

I have only read this on the Internet, but apparently Nintendo's licensing back in the NES days was such that Nintendo could basically tell their developers what they were going to do and tell them "you are going to like it too." I guess Sony does not have their licensing agreements with developers structured that way.

Has the PS3 ever turned a profit? Let's just hope they don't start charging to play COD5 online. If they pull a Microsoft on that front, I reckon they are going to alienate their customers.
it is my understanding they are still losing $50 per unit.

Nintendo is strict as far as its licensing is concerned- much the way Apple was, I think it has been a good thing for them because they can actually control the flow of IP's so that saturation doesnt, or doesnt appear to occur.

Thats a smart company.... so very Japanese....(in the best of ways)
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #101
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
A couple of years ago the Japanese went through somewhat the same thing that we are facing in America today. The country was in a deep recession and they had to do a lot of things that to the average Japanese were unthinkable like laying off people and firing people. In the old days the Japanese had jobs for life. Now that is not the same. In the old days the Japanese had real pride in their workplace, sang the company song before starting work and generally were very happy people. Now that is changing and they are starting to question everything that is being done. They also have an increase in their mental health problems and more and more Japanese are dissatisfied with their way of life. Their ideas of a 100 year plan were tossed out and they started thinking more about what was happening today and tomorrow and not thinking in the long term. It was once told to me by a good Japanese friend that in the old days a business that was courting a new partnership with an other business could take years to build up the trust and the friendship that the business relationship needed. Today they would not spend the time or the money to do that.

People are pointing to China as the new way of doing business. If you look on the surface they are doing well but if you start to really look under the hood they have the same problems as every other industrialize nation only they deal with the problems in different ways. There are villages in China that are surrounded by old chassis from PCs. The village does salvaging of PC circuit cards for the precious metals they contain. It is a thriving business but it does have some problems which the Chinese conveniently don't let people know about like lead poisoning and heavy metal contamination of the land and the water. Things that most industrial countries would not allow to happen because of the environmental impact the Chinese turn their backs on and pretend it does not exist. So even though China looks like a promising model for business it is not.

The world collectively needs to get its house in order and start realizing that we are a GLOBAL community and we need to start thinking in that vein. What happens today in the Middle East will effect the whole world tomorrow.

Hopefully this world wide recession will teach people some hard lessons but if it does not then this scenario with happen over and over again and get worse not better.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #102
Gear Maniac
 
bizzle's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great thread, folks. As ever there are lots of opportunities for those of us who:

1. Don't Panic!
2. Stay diverse (services, interests, clients, ideas)
3. Are frugal (meaning the wise use of resources)
4. Keep busy (don't sit on your ass)
5. Always friendly (it is always going to be a service industry)
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #103
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle ➑️
Great thread, folks. As ever there are lots of opportunities for those of us who:

1. Don't Panic!
2. Stay diverse (services, interests, clients, ideas)
3. Are frugal (meaning the wise use of resources)
4. Keep busy (don't sit on your ass)
5. Always friendly (it is always going to be a service industry)
Some of the best advice I have read lately!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #104
Gear Head
 
havlowjumper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Busy Weekend!

Whoa I missed a lot over the weekend.

Quote:
Has it occurred to Sony that they may want to force PlayStation developers to develop for PS3 only?
Really interesting comment. The reality is kind of the other way around, as in, how can they persuade game developers to actual develop for the PS3.

Therein lies much of the problem. A console is really nothing without a solid stable of games behind it. PS2 was dominant in this way, so many companies only developed for that platform.

Sony were so delayed in releasing the PS3, and the accompanying SDK that companies were losing money before the console was even released. Who would want to keep working with that? Add to that the small number of PS3's in homes now, and again who would want to develop for that console. You could make a Wii game with a 40M market to sell to (and growing) or make a PS3 game that will die on the shelves. Furthermore, any big game being made for a truly Next Gen console (360 or PS3) is likely going to go for a cross-platform release. Why limit yourself? What is the insentive? The new tools have made it significantly easier to develop for two systems simultaneously.

So now for a bit of optimism.

I think that much of this turmoil might actually force some of these large game publishers to obviously rethink their business model, but also their development strategies. Many posts ago Charles you asked if there is a glut of games on the market. I think there is, and for a while companies could support the excess (and the losses). So while I am upset that the middle sized game companies will likely lose support from the publishers, I hope that these companies will focus on creating genuinely unique and compelling game experiences that are merketable. In a way I think the game buyer, through used game sales, and wii popularity, is telling the publishers that they are tired of the same old thing. The market is changing and fast, and even the "hardcore" gamer is hungry for better quality works.

Everyone has seen a movie that has touched them emotionally, and has been provocative and forced a level of thought that transcends the superficial. I am telling you that experience is possible interactively, and it is really something when you experience it first hand.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #105
Lives for gear
 
soundboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe Sony can get Atari to bring back "ET" for the PS3.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #106
Gear Head
 
havlowjumper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Maybe Sony can get Atari to bring back "ET" for the PS3.


If they did it would be a first person shooter where you must defend the earth from an evil race of glowbug fingered walking raisin-aliens hell bent on using all of our phones to call long distance... without calling collect!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundboy ➑️
Maybe Sony can get Atari to bring back "ET" for the PS3.
LOL

I actually remember that game. Not really sure what that says about me, though.

Randall
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
hociman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Exclamation now DVDs are gonna take a hit

DVD Plunge May Force Studios to Write Down Movies (Update2)
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
ggegan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry, but I just can't wallow in the doom and gloom mire.

People need entertainment, especially when times get bad. It isn't going away, even though it may be changing in terms of the economics.

You just have to ride the tiger (psychobabble alert) and let it take you wherever it wants to go. If you can find a way to engage and thrill people in the new paradigm, whatever it turns out to be, you will be rewarded.

I believe that those who have focused on being agile and adaptable will be able to ride out the current situation and come out stronger. Opportunity is born out of crisis.

How's that for spewing a load of B.S.?

Nevertheless, I truly believe it is all true and I'm confident I can prove it, or at least die trying, in which case it will have been a fine adventure.

Pass the tequila Paco! Si, bueno!
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #111
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
this is not a real good story on what is happening in distribution.... the whole pay-per-view and netflix model DOES indeed bring profit back to the studios.... If anything, the producers should be on to these new delivery models like a bum on a ham sandwitch....there is no packaging costs, no warehousing costs, no shipping costs..... all of those things add up- There is also no real notion of how much the studio makes on a $10 dollar title (after the material expenses). if iTunes gives them 2 dollars a viewing, there could be some real possibilities.... and better yet, is the Netflix library model where you can view anything for a flat fee as much as you like....

just an observation....
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #112
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
A very wise man, my mentor, told me recently...

"today it is not about media, anyone can produce media and there is no profit anymore in that production, what you really need to do is focus on content, that is what is important"

I guess, as usual, he was spot on.

I also guess that is why he is driving a brand new $70,000 dollar BMW and I am driving a 9 year old Quest.
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