I know this is kind of a continuation of another thread, but I thought it deserved its own.... I have been interested in purchasing a great mic/mics for collecting sound fx... I am leaning towards the sanken css5 upon many good recommendations. There is no one near me that rents these, so the best I could do is have a friend record some sounds in mono and stereo. From the sounds of things, it sounds great! I have heard that one negative is that the mike has a more than normal self noise. Is it loud enough to become distracting on say quiet room tones? (I shoud have requested that!!) It seems like these mics are fairly hard to come by.... Seems like most guys are using schoeps....Can anyone tried a MS setup with a schoeps ccm8 mounted to a mono shotgun??

Thanks

I haven't tried the CCM8 for effects, but a Sennheiser MKH416/MKH30 M-S pair is the backbone of my effects kit.

I find that the self-noise of the MKH-series mics tends to be a bit less intrusive than that of the Schoeps, although that's mostly just a matter of taste. I've also found that the Schoeps mics don't handle RF interference and environmental issues (eg. humidity) as gracefully as the MKH mics.

I wouldn't mind trying out a CCM8 paired with a CMIT5U, though. I've used a pair of MK4's in an X-Y arrangement to record a half-tonne pickup truck, and I loved those velvety lows.

Thanks Stephen..... How do you mount those for MS? Do you attach them to the same mount and then cover them with a zeppelin? Rycote? Also, Have you tried to compare the MKH416/MKH30 to the 416s or other stereo mic? If so how does it stack up?

Both mics sit in a single Rycote suspension, using back-to-back clips. The wind screen has a larger diameter than the model used for the `416 alone, and the whole thing can be a bit heavy for handheld use. For that reason, I've added a Remote Audio hand grip to allow for two-handed use (which is handy for those extremely long shooting days). I've also rigged up a 2xXLR-3 to XLR-5 to further simplify setup.

I've used the `418s in the past. The `418s is a great choice if you're shooting production dialogue and the client is insisting it be recorded in stereo (for whatever reason), since its not that much heavier than a `416 and gives you comparable performance on the mid-channel. However, the MKH418s loses points for a rather noisey back-electret figure-8 side-channel capsule. This isn't that big a deal if you're recording hard effects, but I found that any atmospheres with a width greater than 45 degrees would really draw attention to the disparity in capsule quality.

That said, the `30 costs even more than the `416, while the `418s is around the same price as a `416. If you already own a `416, then the decision becomes a bit simpler. The `30 is quite a mic in its own right, and it will record deeper sounds than the `416 can (handling noise becomes an issue unless you engage the low-cut).

As for comparing various other stereo mics, I find that the M-S technique is quite well suited to hard effects recording, since a shotgun mic will give you such a strong center image. I've never found the adjustability of the stereo width to be that big an issue, though, since you can narrow any phase-coherent stereo pair by panning the left and right channels towards the centre. I've recorded some very interesting tracks using a pair of `416's in an 90-degree X-Y configuration, however the image had a bit of a hole in the middle. Some time ago I tried a Neumann RSM-191 M-S mic, but I was rather disappointed by the self-noise and susceptibility to handling noise.

The "Wide" stereo setting on the CSS5 is a bit noisy- the normal stereo is pretty quiet though- I typically use the normal for stereo effects myself.

You might want to check out if your friend used that wide setting.


Charles Maynes

Thanks charles, Thrns out the sounds were recorded in regular stereo mode (of course) In wide mode, how noisy is it? Enough to ruin a room tone or quiet backgrounds recording (Im using a Sounddevices 702)? Are the schoeps or the 416 MUCH quieter?

I have not found the normal stereo mode to be that noisy- The Schoeps may be a little bit quieter, but They are not really the same sort of mic- I think it is on par noise wise with the best of the single chassis stereo mics though, And I would wager it to be one of the best in adverse conditions.

I use a Shure FP24 (the same as the SD Mixpre) and the results are acceptable for me.


Charles Maynes

I have a Sound Devices/Sanken CSS5 rig and I think it sounds great. Noise has never been an issue with stuff I've recorded. To be fair I've never tried to record really quiet ambiences. I would guess it's as quiet or quieter then either Sennheiser shotgun, I have not used Schoeps. The other thing I love about the Sanken is the 3 pickup patterns. That packs a lot of versatility into a small portable package, which to me is a huge plus.